Open Carry Meet-Up at Starbucks in GB Area: Ashwaubenon, WI

ckmorley · Sep 26, 2010

I don't think we need to notify the police about a peaceful gathering of people drinking coffee and exercising their rights.:banana:

dpcenter65 · Sep 26, 2010

I understand your replies, I really do. But in light of the recent occurrences in Pulaski and Madison it would be a courtesy to them as a good deal of the ASP officers are typical ignorant bulletheads. If we are doing nothing wrong why would it be a bad idea to let them know and head off an issue that will ultimately look bad for us like it has in Madison and Pulaski.

dpcenter65 · Sep 26, 2010

Until we get CCW or the public stops freaking out every time they see a gun it looks like we are opening carrying to "stick it in your face" and like we are fringe radical gun nuts. Anything we can do to treat the public and the police with silk gloves and really show that we are law abiding reasonable citizens will help us more than being bullheaded and stubborn even though we know we have the right to be that way. the general sheeple public doesn't see it our way. Its a shame that more people don't hunt, target shoot, and are raised around guns, it really is. but until we change the minds of the dumb public and work toward CCW, we have to be ultra sensitive and delicate with this. If we push it it will backfire. Just my thoughts.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Sep 26, 2010

dpcenter65 said:
I understand your replies, I really do. But in light of the recent occurrences in Pulaski and Madison it would be a courtesy to them as a good deal of the ASP officers are typical ignorant bulletheads. If we are doing nothing wrong why would it be a bad idea to let them know and head off an issue that will ultimately look bad for us like it has in Madison and Pulaski.

The key about Pulaski and Madison was that they both were wrong! Pulaski quickly fixed the problem with some education and it seems like a Federal judge will be needed for the Madison education but please be assured you have the right and the police KNOW this.

One of the best ways to pop your OC cherry is one of these events. It would be highly unlikely that even the Madison PD would hassle 20+ OC'ers.

Support The 2nd · Sep 26, 2010

dpcenter65 said:
Until we get "insert minority group here" or the public stops freaking out every time they see a insert minority group here" it looks like we are "stick it in your face" and like we are fringe radicalinsert minority group here" nuts. Anything we can do to treat the public and the police with silk gloves and really show that we are law abiding reasonable citizens will help us more than being bullheaded and stubborn even though we know we have the right to be that way. the general sheeple public doesn't see it our way. Its a shame that more people don't hunt, target shoot, and are raised around guns, it really is. but until we change the minds of the dumb public and work toward CCW, we have to be ultra sensitive and delicate with this. If we push it it will backfire. Just my thoughts.

I modified you post to show you the error in your logic. When they told Rosa Parks to move (your logic) dictated that she should have said PLEASE, and then moved. The time to PUSH is NOW!

You argument was used in 2008 when the OC movement started. The fact that the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel published an editorial in support of CC earlier this year shows the fear of backfire is unfounded.

It is also widely accepted that CC is NOT the cure all. Even if we had CC, if one of us bends over, and the firearm is accidentally revealed, the police will still over react. With CC, are you then saying OC goes away and "Right to Carry" with it replaced by "Privilege to Carry." If CC isn't FREE, there are many who will REFUSE the permit, do they then loose the right?

CC is needed as a practical matter but as others have stated it is NOT the cure all.

As was posted on the forum by WCI, if the police aren't following the law today, what makes you think they'll follow it tomorrow.

protias · Sep 26, 2010

dpcenter65 said:
I understand your replies, I really do. But in light of the recent occurrences in Pulaski and Madison it would be a courtesy to them as a good deal of the ASP officers are typical ignorant bulletheads. If we are doing nothing wrong why would it be a bad idea to let them know and head off an issue that will ultimately look bad for us like it has in Madison and Pulaski.

The courtesy would be to be left alone for not doing anything illegal. Letting them know would be equivalent to calling them every time you plan on carrying.

dpcenter65 said:
Until we get CCW or the public stops freaking out every time they see a gun it looks like we are opening carrying to "stick it in your face" and like we are fringe radical gun nuts. Anything we can do to treat the public and the police with silk gloves and really show that we are law abiding reasonable citizens will help us more than being bullheaded and stubborn even though we know we have the right to be that way. the general sheeple public doesn't see it our way. Its a shame that more people don't hunt, target shoot, and are raised around guns, it really is. but until we change the minds of the dumb public and work toward CCW, we have to be ultra sensitive and delicate with this. If we push it it will backfire. Just my thoughts.

CCW is not the end all. There are many states where police still harass you for carrying. Someone from MN said if the police see you carrying, they may put you on a gang affiliation list. This means you lose your permit to carry! He also said, "You better not print in FL because the police will harass you."

1245A Defender · Sep 27, 2010

number of OCers...

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
The key about Pulaski and Madison was that they both were wrong! Pulaski quickly fixed the problem with some education and it seems like a Federal judge will be needed for the Madison education but please be assured you have the right and the police KNOW this.

One of the best ways to pop your OC cherry is one of these events. It would be highly unlikely that even the Madison PD would hassle 20+ OC'ers.

madison PD barely had the balls to hassle TWO OCers!!!
they didnt know that there were 3 others that would come outside to see what was going on!!!

Jason in WI · Sep 27, 2010

dpcenter65 said:
Until we get CCW or the public stops freaking out every time they see a gun it looks like we are opening carrying to "stick it in your face" and like we are fringe radical gun nuts.

Hi dpcenter65, welcome to the forum!

In my experience the public doesn't freak out, I assume most Open Carriers will tell you the same. Most of the friction comes when people call to find out if it's legal, and police officers who may have never been trained about open carry or seen a legally armed citizen arrive. While the police have been doing a magnificent job on getting updated training and/or bulletins out there, there will still be incidents until open carry is practiced by more people more regularly. Just having a CC permit system in place means more people "freaking" out (printing, accidental exposure) because more people will be carrying and the public still won't know carrying is legal.

Just last night I joined a few friends in downtown Madison where we mingled with very large groups of people (football crowd?) and no one freaked out. When I go to the store and get toilet paper, no one freaks out. I carry everyday at work and deal with costumers and insurance adjusters and no one has ever freaked out.

While I'm sure there are true stories of hyper-sensitive people panicking I can assure you it's not the norm.

qball54208 · Sep 27, 2010

dpcenter65 said:
Has the Ashwaubenon Public Safety Dept been notified? If so, what to they think or how are they planning to react on the day of the event?

I really do no think there will be an issue, last week I was in the gas station getting a cup of Joe and a paper, armed of course. When I went out to my SUV, I placed my weapon in the case (behind the drivers seat) when one of the LEO walked around the other side. He approached me and inquired where I placed the case, he was nice enough to inform me that according to Case Law,(Reach, Lunge and Gradable) he could site me.
I did not stand there and debate, I complied.
We were joined by another LEO, the 3 of us had a rather productive conversation. Both of them "Get it" know all about OC, and really had a great attitude, I shared my 2 experiences I had w/GBPD both agreed that it was a bit unreasonable!
One LEO stated, "If I get a MWG call, walking through a neighborhood, I go, observe the individual, if he/she looks cool, I may stop and have a casual conversation and move along. If I get another MWG call (same individual) I just drive along, observe no Illegal actions, I leave it alone.
Go figure, a LEO that does his job, the right way! Hats off to'em.
The way I see it, there should be NO ISSUE.

bnhcomputing · Sep 27, 2010

qball54208 said:
I really do no think there will be an issue, last week I was in the gas station getting a cup of Joe and a paper, armed of course. When I went out to my SUV, I placed my weapon in the case (behind the drivers seat) when one of the LEO walked around the other side. He approached me and inquired where I placed the case, he was nice enough to inform me that according to Case Law,(Reach, Lunge and Gradable) he could site me.
I did not stand there and debate, I complied.
We were joined by another LEO, the 3 of us had a rather productive conversation. Both of them "Get it" know all about OC, and really had a great attitude, I shared my 2 experiences I had w/GBPD both agreed that it was a bit unreasonable!
One LEO stated, "If I get a MWG call, walking through a neighborhood, I go, observe the individual, if he/she looks cool, I may stop and have a casual conversation and move along. If I get another MWG call (same individual) I just drive along, observe no Illegal actions, I leave it alone.
Go figure, a LEO that does his job, the right way! Hats off to'em.
The way I see it, there should be NO ISSUE.

I hope no officer is serious about that. The LAW says unloaded and encased.

Brass Magnet · Sep 27, 2010

bnhcomputing said:
I hope no officer is serious about that. The LAW says unloaded and encased.

Yeah,
If you see him again, ask him where in case law it says reach/lunge distance. I'd be interested to know if it's the Alloy case I now agree is "for reference only".

qball54208 · Sep 28, 2010

Brass Magnet said:
Yeah,
If you see him again, ask him where in case law it says reach/lunge distance. I'd be interested to know if it's the Alloy case I now agree is "for reference only".

He was adamant about "reach, lunge & gradable area" in RE to Vehicle Transportation, and he was probably referring to the Alloy "reference".
I was not going to go toe to toe with him at that point, cause we all know that once any LEO takes any kind of action to cite, the place to "argue your point" is NOT during any contact, even though we may be 100% in the right, the final outcome is in Court. I was not going to press the issue either.
So, I decided to save face, let him think he was right and continued our conversation.
If any of you recall, I DO NOT have good luck w/going into gas stations while armed!
I can go to 10 stores and no issue, but not the corner gas station w/o the cops coming to my house!

Brass Magnet · Sep 28, 2010

qball54208 said:
He was adamant about "reach, lunge & gradable area" in RE to Vehicle Transportation, and he was probably referring to the Alloy "reference".
I was not going to go toe to toe with him at that point, cause we all know that once any LEO takes any kind of action to cite, the place to "argue your point" is NOT during any contact, even though we may be 100% in the right, the final outcome is in Court. I was not going to press the issue either.
So, I decided to save face, let him think he was right and continued our conversation.
If any of you recall, I DO NOT have good luck w/going into gas stations while armed!
I can go to 10 stores and no issue, but not the corner gas station w/o the cops coming to my house!

I understand, that's why I said "if you see him again". I know I always wait till later to talk to an LEO about a law they have any chance of bothering me with on the scene. Well, I did get in an argument with a Sauk County Sherrif deputy after he gave me a written warning for "Running a yellow light" but that's a little different.

Wisconsin Carry Inc. · Sep 29, 2010

Send a press release out tonight.

ckmorley said:
You are invited to an Open Carry Meet-Up at Starbucks in Ashwaubenon, WI. (the Green Bay area) on Saturday October 2nd 2010, between noon and 3:00 pm.

Green Bay-Oneida St & Ramada Way
Starbucks Coffee Company
2883 S. Oneida St.
Ashwaubenon, WI 54304 US
pref 920-499-4532

The address is 2883 S. Oneida Street, Ashwaubenon, WI 54304
This Starbucks is close to Route 41 and easily accessible.

Plenty of parking is available.

Send a press release out to all media (print, radio,TV) tonight so they have time to print it before Saturday.

ckmorley · Sep 30, 2010

Wisconsin Carry said:
Send a press release out to all media (print, radio,TV) tonight so they have time to print it before Saturday.

Done

I also email Eric Peterson of TV26, who interviewed me recently about OC.

The weather is suppossed to be cool and clear......horray!

ckmorley

qball54208 · Sep 30, 2010

Brass Magnet said:
I understand, that's why I said "if you see him again". I know I always wait till later to talk to an LEO about a law they have any chance of bothering me with on the scene. Well, I did get in an argument with a Sauk County Sherrif deputy after he gave me a written warning for "Running a yellow light" but that's a little different.

Oh I certainly and respectfully will do that.

Jason in WI · Sep 30, 2010

ckmorley said:
I also email Eric Peterson of TV26, who interviewed me recently about OC.

Did we every get a linky to that? I remember members watched it but I don't see it on their site.

ckmorley · Oct 1, 2010

TV26 never posted a video.

ckmorley

WisconsinPI · Oct 1, 2010

Support The 2nd said:
I modified you post to show you the error in your logic. When they told Rosa Parks to move (your logic) dictated that she should have said PLEASE, and then moved. The time to PUSH is NOW!

You argument was used in 2008 when the OC movement started. The fact that the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel published an editorial in support of CC earlier this year shows the fear of backfire is unfounded.

It is also widely accepted that CC is NOT the cure all. Even if we had CC, if one of us bends over, and the firearm is accidentally revealed, the police will still over react. With CC, are you then saying OC goes away and "Right to Carry" with it replaced by "Privilege to Carry." If CC isn't FREE, there are many who will REFUSE the permit, do they then loose the right?

CC is needed as a practical matter but as others have stated it is NOT the cure all.

As was posted on the forum by WCI, if the police aren't following the law today, what makes you think they'll follow it tomorrow.

Amen

SprayAndPray · Oct 2, 2010

Hope you guys are having fun..... Stuck at work .

I would much rather be ther e

Open Carry Meet-Up at Starbucks in GB Area: Ashwaubenon, WI

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