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Thread: 9/8/10 OC @ Apartment complex when ...

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    9/8/10 OC @ Apartment complex when ...

    So I'm in my apartment, occasionally going outside OC to chat with neighbors. It got late so I came inside. I keep my paddle holster and my 9mm on my desk. My son comes out to the living room.

    "Daddy, someone is in my window."

    I grab my holster and head to his room. He's filling me in as I go.

    "I pulled up the shade and saw a face. As i was coming to get you they ran left."

    I grabbed my cell, wallet, belt, shoes, holster, 9mm, and a flashlight and headed outside. I immediately give my son the silent all clear to close his window. He gives me a description of early 20's, white male, wearing a dark brown / black hoodie. I walk to the edge of the building. Peering around, there is a shadow coming around the next corner of the building. I dip back around and simply make sure I'm not on safe. As I return around the corner the person is gone. I made a decision to go back inside as I lost sight and didn't know if they were inside. After clearing the house, I called 911 and after informing the dispatcher I was armed, awaited the arrival of an LEO.

    He was startled by my holster but I was nowhere near it during our chat. He looked around for about 2 minutes and left. Geez, I could've done that. It seems we have a transient living just off the property as I found a tent and some "belongings" this afternoon.

    Heck of a start for me last night, but I am glad everyone is safe. We live to pay taxes for another day.

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    You made a huge mistake there, Goose. You went OUTSIDE of your home and SEARCHED for a target. If you'd ended up in a shooting situation it would have been your @$$.

    Next time you should just get the family to safe area of the house, make sure they're safe and call 911. If anyone comes INTO the house, THEN you can shoot them if they pose a threat.
    Last edited by Bookman; 09-10-2010 at 05:39 AM.
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    You made a huge mistake there, Goose. You went OUTSIDE of your home and SEARCHED for a target. If you'd ended up in a shooting situation it would have been your @$$.

    Next time you should just get the family to safe area of the house, make sure they're safe and call 911. If anyone comes INTO the house, THEN you can shoot them if they pose a threat.
    +1 on chasing anyone around the yard....this sounds a little like Spokane with a different ending....

    Goose, If you're still concerned, you might consider a some perimeter protection that is a little further out than your front door (or window) in this case.

    The fair (Puyallup) is opening this weekend. We talked to a guy there last year that had a security company, but was peddling a wireless system with motion detectors (body mass above 50lbs for wild things)....he made a good case to extend your perimeter to be alerted before you have the face in the window....pretty inexpensive too. I'm looking forward to visiting him again this year...maybe to buy...We're alarmed (meaning a system), but the extra time would be good if needed.
    Last edited by jt59; 09-10-2010 at 08:44 AM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    You made a huge mistake there, Goose. You went OUTSIDE of your home and SEARCHED for a target. If you'd ended up in a shooting situation it would have been your @$$.

    Next time you should just get the family to safe area of the house, make sure they're safe and call 911. If anyone comes INTO the house, THEN you can shoot them if they pose a threat.
    Yup , good point.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    +1 on the lesson of not going outside if you don't have to...that's a good way to get cracked or shot in the back of the head.

    Also, leaving the house could have allowed the person to get into your house with your son still in it (I presume he was still inside). Bad news right there. And then because of leaving the house, you had to clear your house...which is a dismal prospect at best when you're a one-man operation.

    Glad it turned out ok though! Good to hear these stories and learn from them.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    So I'm in my apartment, occasionally going outside OC to chat with neighbors. It got late so I came inside. I keep my paddle holster and my 9mm on my desk. My son comes out to the living room.

    "Daddy, someone is in my window."

    I grab my holster and head to his room. He's filling me in as I go.

    "I pulled up the shade and saw a face. As i was coming to get you they ran left."

    I grabbed my cell, wallet, belt, shoes, holster, 9mm, and a flashlight and headed outside. I immediately give my son the silent all clear to close his window. He gives me a description of early 20's, white male, wearing a dark brown / black hoodie. I walk to the edge of the building. Peering around, there is a shadow coming around the next corner of the building. I dip back around and simply make sure I'm not on safe. As I return around the corner the person is gone. I made a decision to go back inside as I lost sight and didn't know if they were inside. After clearing the house, I called 911 and after informing the dispatcher I was armed, awaited the arrival of an LEO.
    Goose I would like to bring up some points that you should consider, it is not to belittle but to offer constructive views.

    I first notice the comment "I keep my paddle holster and my 9mm on my desk." this I feel is dangerous as you have children in your home, it needs to be out of reach (climbing reach also) of them so they cannot access it do to curiosity or even play. We all feel we have taught our children not to touch but do we leave it to hope we taught them well enough, I support teach them not to but to take actions to not allow access with out a proper setting and safety.

    As others have noted in your statement "I walk to the edge of the building" seeking out a target could place or will likely place you in a bad position, after all we choose to arm ourselves for our protection, It seems a higher degree of importance is keeping you and your family safe in the home.

    This statement "didn't know if they were inside" is of greater concern, you left your child in the home unprotected and then after running around looking for a perpetrator when it could have been in your home!

    We look into our responsibilities of self defense, and sometimes they are blurred as to where the Civilian and Police responsibilities lay, we as Civilians do so to protect us and ours of imminent threat of life or limb, while Police are to Serve and Protect which relates to investigative and sometimes a proactive responses.

    Goose I am glad you posted this as this is how we learn and progress by bringing issues as this up.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    +1 on the lesson of not going outside if you don't have to...that's a good way to get cracked or shot in the back of the head.

    Also, leaving the house could have allowed the person to get into your house with your son still in it (I presume he was still inside). Bad news right there. And then because of leaving the house, you had to clear your house...which is a dismal prospect at best when you're a one-man operation.

    Glad it turned out ok though! Good to hear these stories and learn from them.
    .......and one should always consider the likelyhood of more than one BG in the deal....robbers vs peepers, you just don't know.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    FIRST OFF: I posted openly on this site for opinions and they are WELCOMED! I made a mistake and see it now, and am glad people are alive now tha tI see what the outcome could've been. A few update points.

    1) Inside my home were my son, wife, and daughter. As I left (apartment btw, I say home, but it's an apartment complex) all doors and windows were locked. I cleared the house mainly out of habit and just in case. I see the error of leaving the residence. BAD move on my part. Thanks for that, truly. No malice meant and I look forward to discussing it if anyone is in Federal Way tomorrow. I can take a brow beating. It's how I'll learn.

    2) My holster and 9mm are on my desk when I am there (which is often) but if I go to the bathroom, kitchen, bedroom, or anything, it goes with me. If I'm not in my usual house attire of shorts, it's on my right hip. They (the kids) are NEVER alone with it. My kids are 13 and 11 and my son knows but I forbid him to touch it until I start taking him to a range for proper instruction. I am never out of the room she is in unless she is in the gun safe.

    3) As others have noted in your statement "I walk to the edge of the building" seeking out a target could place or will likely place you in a bad position, after all we choose to arm ourselves for our protection, It seems a higher degree of importance is keeping you and your family safe in the home.

    (I don't really need to add anything to that. It speaks for itself.)

    Thanks for the objective opinions. It really, now, made no sense for me to go out. It was a hesitant reaction that could've cost a life. I count myself lucky.

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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    You're not the only one.

    A few of us could learn from this thread. I would also be inclined to secure the perimeter of my house if someone was lurking.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Don't feel bad....I'll tell you a whopper on myself tomorrow at the meet....it will make you feel much better.

    It starts like this....HONEY, (shake, shake)...someone just flashed a light in my eyes...Huh?, it's nothing, go back to sleep.......HONEY, (PUNCH, SLAP)...get up! There's someone downstairs in the living room.......
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Some suggestions...

    I have left the house after a suspicious noise, movement, person, etc...

    When I do, a coat goes on and I am concealed. However, in your instance I would of probably hunkered down and called 911 as you described a suspect.

    At the tender age of 2 I started with my two daughters about firearms. Until they were 10 it was don't touch, go tell an adulty. At 10 they began to handle both semi's and revolvers. (My wife and I both carry daily) A firearm has never been a mystery to them and I have never told them since that early age to not touch it. I suggest you sit around tonight and unload a handgun in their presence and give them a 30 minute talk on safety and how handguns work. Better you now then at a friends house with no adult around. Also, have them take this course http://www.mdgunsafety.com/ My daughters now can handle firearms and have no issues with them whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    FIRST OFF: I posted openly on this site for opinions and they are WELCOMED! I made a mistake and see it now, and am glad people are alive now tha tI see what the outcome could've been. A few update points.

    1) Inside my home were my son, wife, and daughter. As I left (apartment btw, I say home, but it's an apartment complex) all doors and windows were locked. I cleared the house mainly out of habit and just in case. I see the error of leaving the residence. BAD move on my part. Thanks for that, truly. No malice meant and I look forward to discussing it if anyone is in Federal Way tomorrow. I can take a brow beating. It's how I'll learn.

    2) My holster and 9mm are on my desk when I am there (which is often) but if I go to the bathroom, kitchen, bedroom, or anything, it goes with me. If I'm not in my usual house attire of shorts, it's on my right hip. They (the kids) are NEVER alone with it. My kids are 13 and 11 and my son knows but I forbid him to touch it until I start taking him to a range for proper instruction. I am never out of the room she is in unless she is in the gun safe.

    3) As others have noted in your statement "I walk to the edge of the building" seeking out a target could place or will likely place you in a bad position, after all we choose to arm ourselves for our protection, It seems a higher degree of importance is keeping you and your family safe in the home.

    (I don't really need to add anything to that. It speaks for itself.)

    Thanks for the objective opinions. It really, now, made no sense for me to go out. It was a hesitant reaction that could've cost a life. I count myself lucky.
    Live Free or Die!

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    My son has handled it, unloaded it, cleared it, and even knows how to field strip it. It's not something I allow him to do a lot as he's never fired it yet. My daughter is afraid of it when I'm not handling it. This is something I am working on. I know why this is and can discuss it off forum.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    My son has handled it, unloaded it, cleared it, and even knows how to field strip it. It's not something I allow him to do a lot as he's never fired it yet. My daughter is afraid of it when I'm not handling it. This is something I am working on. I know why this is and can discuss it off forum.
    We can talk tomorrow at Starbucks. My daughters are good teachers.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I don't live in an apartment and I see nothing wrong with investigating intruders or noies onto your property. I know my property well, though and know how to get around with out being seen.

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    Regular Member ghosthunter's Avatar
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    I think more than a few of us would go out and look around. I too own my home and have made many night look arounds. May not be smart but, if someone is looking in my windows I am going to check it out.

    A year ago my wife was up late and came running in the bedroom to get me because someone was turning the locked door nob. I armed up and checked it out. Sure their could be more than one. And maybe you stop a guy from burning your house down. It is a decision everyone has to make on their own.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Anytime someone seeks to find a threat you expose yourself to more dangers as to being seen first and attacked to the incident of being shot by law enforcement because one maybe to full of himself playing Spiderman that can get himself killed and then who is protecting the family?

    Secure yourself and family and call 911 unless there is an immediate threat to life and limb (that is not going out running around like a fool)

    After all isn't it at the end of the day you want yourself and family safe and sound?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Genken's Avatar
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    While I was on leave in Texas, I would always make my nightly rounds around the house(smoke my last cigarette for the night, check the alley, back yard, then make sure everything was locked up tight). I only did this because of where she's living, with drug dealers, gang members, and even one night someone breaking into her back yard to smoke weed. She called the cops on that one(I was up here at the time). So yeah, I at least made sure nothing was going on around the house(outer perimeter) before I secured the inner perimeter.

    I imagine when I PCS to Ft. Bliss I will be doing the same(El Paso/Juarez don't seem so great), Unless I'm living on post. Then I'll just make sure the house is secure.
    It ain't easy in the Tweezy.

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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    When is your PCS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Anytime someone seeks to find a threat you expose yourself to more dangers as to being seen first and attacked to the incident of being shot by law enforcement because one maybe to full of himself playing Spiderman that can get himself killed and then who is protecting the family?

    Secure yourself and family and call 911 unless there is an immediate threat to life and limb (that is not going out running around like a fool)

    After all isn't it at the end of the day you want yourself and family safe and sound?
    It took an LEO 15 minutes to arrive. If anything had been happening, I'd have needed 4 more magazines and a grenade. But, that's for another thread :P

    At the end of the day, I want the family safe and no one peeping in on my 11 yr old daughter changing. I personally have pondered an electric screen

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    It took an LEO 15 minutes to arrive. If anything had been happening, I'd have needed 4 more magazines and a grenade. But, that's for another thread :P

    At the end of the day, I want the family safe and no one peeping in on my 11 yr old daughter changing. I personally have pondered an electric screen
    No disagreement there, I would tend to look trap doors under the window touch the screen down they go....
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    BG at the window ...

    Hey look, there's a TV in this *trap door opens* OOOoooooooo>>>...... *thud*

    Jimmy? Jimmy? Hey, what's the screen doing humming? (ZZZAAAPPP)

    Freeze, Get on the ground.. *AAAhhhhhhhhhhh...* Dang, I forgot about the trap door... ALL CLEAR!

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    is probably clear my property as well. Although my wife would be in the house with my AR ready to rock. For simple defense I have rose bushes under my daughters windows.

  23. #23
    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    I probably would have gone out and looked too. The great thing about this site is that OTHER people make mistakes before I get to. Therefore, I get to learn from reading these posts It's probably a Father's instinct (or just a man's instinct) to go hunt down the BG. I am very thankful that people here pipe up in a constructive way. If we want guns to stay in the open, we gotta stand together on gun safety and gun situations that might involve using the gun.

    Secondly, I would probably NOT go outside with my firearm in the open (in the event you are scanning your perimeter), because a 72 year old pastor in Washington walked outside onto his private property with his shotgun and got gunned down by a police officer. With over 7 shootings this month from police officers resulting in deaths (because they saw a weapon), I have no desire to be around an LEO with my gun openly.

    Anywho, time to arm the kids...

    Joe~

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    YES! This is exactly why I posted my encounter JoeJoeJoe, to see what others thought and maybe "save a life". This was an after thought though, as I thought I did it right at first. I'm learning as well from the good ones here, and am glad people can be objective. That being said, WTB electric fence, 20 foot hole, and an LEO to stand at the bottom to arrest BG's, PST

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    At the end of the day, I want the family safe and no one peeping in on my 11 yr old daughter changing. I personally have pondered an electric screen
    I agree.....Back in Michigan, we'd take two pieces of re-bar and stick them in the ground about 3'-5' apart (a window width), then, split an extension cord...and connect one to each "terminal" (operative word, that)...

    After hosing down the area until it was good and wet (maybe not needed in our weather), throw the switch and just wait until the nightcrawlers came out of the ground....shine a big light on them, pick them up, put them into detention, arraign them the next morning, get them hooked up and then drown them all by 4:00pm.

    metaphorically speaking....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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