It has been posted at the entry as no guns allowed.
Thread: State Fair?
Anyone know if firearms are allowed at the State Fair?
It has been posted at the entry as no guns allowed.
Last edited by NMOCr; 09-08-2012 at 12:14 PM. Reason: corrected the section of the NM constitution.
First- inside the fair grounds, alcohol is served. That alone made it completely off-limits before the laws changed allowing CC with a license in certain types of establishments.
That being said, I do not think it is state land per se, and I am fairly certain that private operations lease the land for uses such as the state fair.
On edit- I just spoke with the state land commissioner's office and the records department. According to them it is "fee land" or private land and not state-owned.
You might try doing a tiny little bit of homework to back up your statements. Again- if you can provide information indicating otherwise, I'm all ears.
Last edited by AH.74; 09-10-2012 at 10:50 AM.
First of all, to review, I am not claiming anything. I am only passing on what I was told back then by a state employee. I am taking them at their word that they know what they're talking about.
Secondly, it is not state land. To repeat- the fair grounds are NOT STATE LANDS. They are private property, which is leased out to the company which puts on the fair. The use of the term "fee land" is their reference to private property.
As such, the operators of the private property- in this case the company that has leased it for the term- has the right to post it as prohibited.
I dont care if its "leased" to Santa Clause. Its still state land! They are merely trying to concoct some sort of reason to claim that its private property to use the excuse that they can ban firearms and "do whatever they please". I think that that clearly violates the NM constitution.
I am in the process of contacting Michael Henningsen who runs the Expo, after being forwarded to them by Governor Martinez office who in on email told me that they appoint the managers to clarify who actually owns the property. I wont expose what I am talking about until I get the emails sorted out.
Last edited by NMOCr; 10-01-2013 at 04:26 PM.
You go on believing what you want. I don't believe in conspiracy theories. The person who "runs the expo"? Whoever "runs the expo" may in fact lease the private property from the private land owner.
I told you I spoke to the state land office. There are no "managers" needed to clarify anything.
I'll be here waiting for you to back up your claims.
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)
However, this isn't terribly important to me. If NMOCr would show us the emails it would give him some credibility with me. From what I have seen in his other posts, that credibility has not been established. And he has has not responded for several days, which casts doubt in my mind on his claims.
The land is not “State Land”. State “Trust” Land is a separate category from private lands. It is actually private property and private land just like where you own your home. There is no State Land involved with EXPO NM.
The land known as Expo NM (NM State Fairgrounds) is private land owned, not leased by the NM STATE FAIR COMMISSION, as indicated by the Bernalillo County Property records. (Go to: http://www.bernco.gov/property-tax-search). It is zoned A-1 with a Special Use Permit to house the State Fair (EXPO New Mexico). Total full value for the 225 acres is listed as $17,576,600. Since the private land is used for State purposes, the net taxable value on record is $0.
Here is the description of EXPO NM:
“EXPO New Mexico is an Enterprise Agency of the State of New Mexico and must generate all funds necessary for maintenance, operation of the facilities, and the employment of staff, and production of the annual State Fair. The State Fair Commission is a seven-member volunteer board appointed by the Governor and organized to assist State Fair Management with ensuring the success of the annual event. It operates the exposition and maintains the event grounds that are spread over an area of more than 225 acres.”
Last edited by snoball; 11-14-2013 at 08:23 AM. Reason: addl info
This is a subject of which I am most curious as well, and did some research. The Bernalillo County assessor's records indicate that the State Fair Grounds property is owned by the "NM State Fair Commission." The parcel id number is 10180573963741021 for anyone to look this up. Now, the “NM State Fair Commission” is a legislatively-created corporate body that is administratively attached to the NM tourism department, which is a part of the Executive Branch of the State Government. (See NMSA §16-6-11 & §16-6-5). So from the property ownership record, it appears the property is owned by a corporate body of the State Government – not "private" property owned by a non-state corporation. You won't find the "NM State Fair Commission" listed at the Secretary of State's corporation commission on-line look up. I agree the property is not “State Trust Property,” which is a different category altogether. You will also find that the "State Fair" is by statute a "governmental instrumentality." (See NMSA §16-6-14),
Of further interest is that the "net taxable value" of the property is zero, because of the "statutory exemption," which is not described on the Bernalillo County Treasurer's website. Now, the first “statutory exemption” I found is Article VIII, Section 3 of the NM Constitution which exempts public property from taxation - which further seems to indicate that the property must be public. The second is NMSA §3-64-3, which permits a local government by vote to exempt “commercial personal property of a new business facility” from property tax for up to 20 years. As far as I know, the State Fair has been at its current location longer than 20 years.
I want to find out which “statutory exemption” is applied to the property. If it is Art. VIII, Sec. 3 of the NM Constitution, then to me that would be conclusive evidence showing the property to be public – not private. If the property is determined to be public, then IMHO the “no weapons” sign ostensibly banning firearms at the Flea Market entrance would be posted in violation of NMSA §30-14-6.
BernCo Tax.pdfState Fair Ownership.pdf
Welcome, Charlie, and thanks for the excellent first post. I now question what I was told (so long ago at this point) by the state land office- your information seems much more accurate, and if true I agree with your last statement about the signs being in violation. If you find anything further, please keep us posted.
Ok - Here's an update on the question of whether the New Mexico State Fair property is - or is not - state property. For reference see the attachments to my prior post.
In an e-mail response to an inquiry made by the Chairman of The Constitution Party of New Mexico asking which “statutory exemption” is applied to the New Mexico State Fair property, the Bernalillo County Assessor's Office wrote:
Thank you for your inquiry. The property located at 300 San Pedro NE (UPC #101805739637410121) is currently receiving a state exemption further identified as section 7-36-7 NMSA 1978 NM Constitution Article VIII Sec. 3.
Please contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Bernalillo County Assessor’s Office
Now, NMSA §7-36-7 exempts from taxation in New Mexico "property exempt from taxation under the federal or state constitution, federal law, the Property Tax Code or other laws...." The section as a whole speaks to property exempt under law, or as either oil & gas property or productive mineral property.
Art. VIII, Sec. 3 of the New Mexico State Constitution says: “The property of the United States, the state and all counties, towns, cities and school districts and other municipal corporations, public libraries, community ditches and all laterals thereof, all church property not used for commercial purposes, all property used for educational or charitable purposes, all cemeteries not used or held for private or corporate profit and all bonds of the state of New Mexico, and of the counties, municipalities and districts thereof shall be exempt from taxation.”
So, in reading what the Bernalillo County Assessor has to say, I am now of the firm opinion that the New Mexico State Fair property unequivocally IS state property. The next step is to press this in Court.... Who is up for being the Poster Child to challenge the “no weapons” sign ostensibly banning firearms at the Flea Market entrance as being posted in violation of NMSA §30-14-6? I am of the opinion that it will take having a Judge make a legal decision on the matter. Otherwise, the "State Fair Guards" will continue to prevent law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights.
Quite a number of us are watching what develops, Jon B.
The Constitution Party will gain much stature if it nails its Second Amendment plank to the doors of the statehouses and churches.
Only The Constitution Party represents America's conservative Country Class against the progressive Ruling Party of demoticly repugnant liars. Progressivism is the political bowel movement (necessary, certain, universal) to make-things-better while leaving US to suffer the unintended consequences.
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We are a minor (third) party that supports the Constitution 100% with no wavering. We will have candidates for office in New Mexico through 2016 and hopefully beyond. We have nominated Michael Lunnon for sheriff of McKinley county and he will be on that county ballot under the Constitution party in 2014. The party has been on the ballot since 1992. You may call 505-508-3607 for more information.
Any progress on this? Anyone try to OC there since? It is public land owned by a state agency, so how can they prevent you from carrying there? I'd CC to get in, and then take my extra shirt off in the restroom and OC. If they arrest me, then I'd sue. A friend standing by with video recording would be a good thing to have if you do this.
Make it public on Youtube, offer interviews to the news media.
Looks like it might take a lawsuit to force them to follow state law. If one person doesn't want to do it, then OC as a group.
Georgia law was recently changed with HB 60 which makes it explicit that public property was taken off the table with regard to private entities that lease it, as to their ability to exclude or eject someone carrying a lawful weapon.
Yet, we still have pockets of resistance that are falling one by one. North Georgia State Fair forbids weapons, and it is held at a county park. I predict they will come around soon to follow state law. I will visit there soon with my family, and I will be OC'ing as is my usual custom.
I recently had email correspondence with Zoo Atlanta who has now decided to follow state law. They lease city owned land.
These things can get done, it just takes a little work.