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Thread: South Hill Mall

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    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    South Hill Mall

    I have seen a lot of stuff about OC in malls. Went to south hill mall and read the polocies sign. I am attaching a pic of the polocies sign. It says weapons prohibited except in accordance with state and federal laws. That says OC to me. What do you think?
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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    My guess is, that's all nice for show and all but they will still kick you out if one customer complains. And we already know that we got lots of funny, whiny people at the mall.

    However, you can still OC while shopping and let us know how it goes.


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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Douglass View Post
    I have seen a lot of stuff about OC in malls. Went to south hill mall and read the polocies sign. I am attaching a pic of the polocies sign. It says weapons prohibited except in accordance with state and federal laws. That says OC to me. What do you think?
    I'd be allover a jog through the mall, test the waters.

    I have carried in many of the surrounding stores where you dont have to go through the mall to get to them.

    Saturday?

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poosharker View Post
    My guess is, that's all nice for show and all but they will still kick you out if one customer complains. And we already know that we got lots of funny, whiny people at the mall.

    However, you can still OC while shopping and let us know how it goes.
    I'd give it a shot...(figuratively speaking)
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    Yea I figured with the last line in there they could still get me. I didn't end up going out and getting my pistol from the car and we left shortly after. Maybe Sparky and I could go for a walk through the mall and see what happens.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    You already broke one of their policies...

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    I've Oc'd to the big stores like OFFICE Max and Target but never walked the mall. I'm 5 minutes away. I'm available after the Federal Way meet and greet if you wish a third. I'm sure you don't want to parade an army through the mall though :P

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    Don't know if it's different on the wet side of the state, but I've open carried in one of the three big malls in Spokane, mostly without trouble. The one time I've gotten approached by someone, a couple of security guards asked me to cover up because people were calling the security office. I was surprised, I'd heard malls are pretty hardcore and will kick you out, but we are talking about Spokane here. :-P

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    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country.hacker View Post
    Don't know if it's different on the wet side of the state, but I've open carried in one of the three big malls in Spokane, mostly without trouble. The one time I've gotten approached by someone, a couple of security guards asked me to cover up because people were calling the security office. I was surprised, I'd heard malls are pretty hardcore and will kick you out, but we are talking about Spokane here. :-P
    I would like to know which one that is. Not that I am a frequent Mall go'er, but on the occasion, I would like to know which ones seem to be easier targets (so to speak).

    I believe that Bennie was escorted from Riverpark Square, so that rules that one out.
    Last edited by SnarlyWino; 09-11-2010 at 10:40 AM.
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    Regular Member Just Us's Avatar
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    Good language (state and federal)

    off topic-did you get written permission before you took a picture of the sign??

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    Regular Member J_Douglass's Avatar
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    Last edited by J_Douglass; 09-11-2010 at 03:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    I would like to know which one that is. Not that I am a frequent Mall go'er, but on the occasion, I would like to know which ones seem to be easier targets (so to speak).

    I believe that Bennie was escorted from Riverpark Square, so that rules that one out.
    It was at Northtown, I was sitting my girls down in the food court when I was approached. I've carried at Riverpark Square before, but didn't spend a lot of time walking around and I guess I didn't get noticed.

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    Me and Chehalis Scott are heading there now that the Federal Way meet is over :P We'll let you know how it goes.

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    Asked to leave

    I will let Scott account for his own account but here is mine.

    We left the meet and headed for the South Hill Mall via my place. We entered from near the target side and walked the food court. I went inside the bathroom to have a janitor ask for my paper to carry a weapon. I said the constitution was a tad large to fit into my pocket but he can reference the 2nd amendment. He asked for my license to CC. I let him know I am OC and not CC so there is no permit. He responded AGAIN about my CC and I let him know it was an Open Carry. I came out of the bathroom where Scott, my wife, and both my kids were waiting. We checked out Yankee Candle, We even bought stuff @ Game on and had no issues. We went through the halloween store, Spencer's and then Game Stop near Payless shoes. Scott was coming out (almost 1 hour total to the minute) when a security guard came up to me. I immediately put my hand out to shake his.

    Me: How's it going today?
    SG: Are you guys Detectives?
    Me: We are not. (He shakes my hand tenatively)
    SG: You guys can't carry like that in here. I know you guys have the LAW on your side but this is private property.
    Me: Ok, I understand. I have my sweatshirt. Do you wish me to cover up?
    SG: I wish you to leave. You can cover up in the parking lot and return.
    Me: Not a problem. We parked near Target. Should we leave through THIS door or can we go through the mall again?
    SG: (quieter tone) You can walk back to target.
    Me: No problem. Are you going to escort us or are we free to go?
    SG: I'm not going to escort you.
    Me: Have a good day.

    He radios back something. I couldn't here. maybe Scott can add

    So there it is. I will be drafting a letter for them to explain their policy when their sign says what it does about lawful carry. I am also going to personally not patron the place for a while since their policies need some adjusting. Ah well, I didn't want to eat there anyway.
    Last edited by Deleted_User; 09-11-2010 at 05:05 PM.

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    Let's play bumpity-bump-bump

    I sent a letter to the mall management basically asking for clarification. If their sign states "in accordance with state and federal law" and OC is legal, what warranted me, my wife, kids, and partner at the time (Scott) asked to leave. We were shopping for an hour spending money in a mall I frequent AND work in. I'll keep all informed

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    I sent a letter to the mall management basically asking for clarification. If their sign states "in accordance with state and federal law" and OC is legal, what warranted me, my wife, kids, and partner at the time (Scott) asked to leave. We were shopping for an hour spending money in a mall I frequent AND work in. I'll keep all informed
    Just a stupid guess but I'll wager that their response, if any, will be to point out the last sentence on the sign.

    It's a little variation on the old "Management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason" sign.

    Just remember, the 2nd Amendment is ONLY a restriction on Government, not private enterprise or individuals.

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    If you need some language to persuade a response, try something along these lines... use your own wording, of course.

    I am inquiring about your company policy regarding legally armed patrons of your establishment. According to the sign on your facility legal carry of handguns is allowed. However I was asked to leave your place of business when I entered with my family legally armed with a handgun.

    If your company policy is to disallow legal carry of firearms then my only complaint would be that your signage on the property conveys quite the opposite and should be remedied to prevent others from being embarrassed by its misinformation. It is your legal right to dictate firearms policy for your private establishment.

    (Here's the kicker)
    If, however, I was singled out for another reason then I take great exception to being discriminated against in a public forum. In this case your representative took it upon himself to extend his, or his supervisors personal feelings toward me and my legal, Constitutional rights. This to me is unacceptable and something I would pursue with an organized boycott of your establishment, written letters to your corporation, the state and local media as well as the possibility of legal action.

    Reserving the right to refuse service to anyone does not include racial or religious reasons. You can refuse to serve me a meal because I'm black but I'm going to sue you and destroy your business in the media.

    If the company policy allows for legal carry then you should be allowed to legally carry. If they don't want you to carry openly then the sign and policy should both specify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    If their sign states "in accordance with state and federal law" and OC is legal, what warranted me, my wife, kids, and partner at the time (Scott) asked to leave.
    The sign does not state that. The sign actually states, Weapon are prohibited except as AUTHORIZED by state & federal law. Now find the law that authorizes you to carry in the mall, again it's a moot point because they always reserve the right to ask you to leave anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5918mike View Post
    The sign does not state that. The sign actually states, Weapon are prohibited except as AUTHORIZED by state & federal law. Now find the law that authorizes you to carry in the mall, again it's a moot point because they always reserve the right to ask you to leave anyway.

    Then the vebiage is contradictory at best, right?

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 5918mike View Post
    The sign does not state that. The sign actually states, Weapon are prohibited except as AUTHORIZED by state & federal law. Now find the law that authorizes you to carry in the mall, again it's a moot point because they always reserve the right to ask you to leave anyway.
    Then the vebiage is contradictory at best, right?
    Well, let's look at that. Federal law and the constitution authorize me to keep and bear arms, and since I have a state CPL, the state also authorizes me to carry, so it appears I'm covered, and per the verbiage on their sign am allowed to possess a firearm on their premises.

    Jus' sayin' ...
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    ^^ works for me I was just pointing out what the sign actually said because a few different posts on this thread were claiming something entirely different to what was actually on the sign.

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    I understand it may be a moot point, and I also recognize this is a Private Property issue. However, got somewhere I frequent, I would like some sort of response, even if it's "take your business elsewhere." I choose my battles wisely, this one is a slight flight of fancy. I don't expect them to say "Yes, open carry without malice or issue here." I simply want to know why when the sign states what is does is all.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    I understand it may be a moot point, and I also recognize this is a Private Property issue. However, got somewhere I frequent, I would like some sort of response, even if it's "take your business elsewhere." I choose my battles wisely, this one is a slight flight of fancy. I don't expect them to say "Yes, open carry without malice or issue here." I simply want to know why when the sign states what is does is all.
    Because the people that write them are not smart enough to see all the ramifications of the "words". Signs like this are usually written by people that 'think' they're smart.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Into the Management Office

    As I'm working @ the South Hill Mall today, I took it upon myself to wander towards the management office and wander myself inside. I introduced myself and brought along the wording of their sign. I also informed them I understood it was private property and was just looking for clarification as OC is legal per the letter of the law (Quoted RCW here) and I was confused as to why we were asked to leave. The receptionist passed me off to the Operations Manager, David (Pronounced DaVeed)

    We spoke for a few moment about how he is the Acting Owner this week as the Property Owner is out of town. He informed me that Larry, the Security Chief would have an answer. However, Larry was unable to be found. Guess who they brought me? That's right friends and neighbors, the SAME security guard who asked us to leave in the first place. We sat down and had a GREAT conversation. Too bad 2A lost this one.

    I read the daily reports and no less than 14 (FOURTEEN) people called the security office to report 2 MWAG. I was stunned by this number. In a little under an hour, 14 people called that they were not feeling safe just because 2 men (accompanied by 2 minors and my wife) were making them feel threatened. Here's the long and short of it.

    South Hill Mall has a "NO FIREARMS" Policy. I was told if they don't see it, they won't act on it. If you are uncovered or OC, you're history with no questions asked. They are more concerned for the general public and other customers than just 1 person. These were exact words.

    Yes, I know it's private property and they have every right. My thinking went IMMEDIATELY towards education. I will be setting up occasional meets in Puyallup at surrounding Starbucks locations and other nice areas right near the mall. If people are this freaked out over someone simply walking by, education is lacking. Mayhaps making OC a tad more "normal" in the area.

    Anyways, to the OP ... research completed on the mall. I hope this information helps someone and at least we all know where the mall stands now.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    As I'm working @ the South Hill Mall today, I took it upon myself to wander towards the management office and wander myself inside. I introduced myself and brought along the wording of their sign. I also informed them I understood it was private property and was just looking for clarification as OC is legal per the letter of the law (Quoted RCW here) and I was confused as to why we were asked to leave. The receptionist passed me off to the Operations Manager, David (Pronounced DaVeed)

    We spoke for a few moment about how he is the Acting Owner this week as the Property Owner is out of town. He informed me that Larry, the Security Chief would have an answer. However, Larry was unable to be found. Guess who they brought me? That's right friends and neighbors, the SAME security guard who asked us to leave in the first place. We sat down and had a GREAT conversation. Too bad 2A lost this one.

    I read the daily reports and no less than 14 (FOURTEEN) people called the security office to report 2 MWAG. I was stunned by this number. In a little under an hour, 14 people called that they were not feeling safe just because 2 men (accompanied by 2 minors and my wife) were making them feel threatened. Here's the long and short of it.

    South Hill Mall has a "NO FIREARMS" Policy. I was told if they don't see it, they won't act on it. If you are uncovered or OC, you're history with no questions asked. They are more concerned for the general public and other customers than just 1 person. These were exact words.

    Yes, I know it's private property and they have every right. My thinking went IMMEDIATELY towards education. I will be setting up occasional meets in Puyallup at surrounding Starbucks locations and other nice areas right near the mall. If people are this freaked out over someone simply walking by, education is lacking. Mayhaps making OC a tad more "normal" in the area.

    Anyways, to the OP ... research completed on the mall. I hope this information helps someone and at least we all know where the mall stands now.
    How many rats and mice were harmed in coming to this conclusion. (Carefull, You'll wind up with a whole nother group of people to deal with) Plead the 5th,
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