Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Proof that Open/Concealed Carriers live in a dream world?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    74

    Proof that Open/Concealed Carriers live in a dream world?

    I found a video on YouTube that brings up the fact that we can never be too prepared for trouble.

    It may be propaganda, or it may be a warning call. You decide.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&NR=1

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    1. Propaganda.

    2. Those shirts were designed to make drawing difficult.

    3. If you happen to be where the shooter is shooting first, chances are you will not be stopping him. What if you are in the next room?

    4. The police don't generally train as described in the video.

    5. This video tells us nothing about OC--which, BTW, is the way the police carry.

    6. Propaganda. Oh, yeah, I already said that.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Tx
    Posts
    326
    Yes, I've seen this propaganda!! Watch carefully, the 'bad guy' shoots the 'teacher' first then IMMEDIATLY shoots the one guy HE KNOWS is the only other armed person. He even bypasses others who get between himself and the concealed carrier. Look at the choices made. Full size Glock '17' makes a LOUSY concealed carry gun! Too bulky, too angular, gets caught in clothing easily. He may have had some pseudo 'training' but they didn't show him practicing drawing from concealment at all. Lack of tactics; the FIRST thing he should have done is sought cover, then attempted defense if warranted. The big give-away of the slanted nature of the piece is who's narrating!! (Oh, and in the 'perfect' world, there would have been 5 or 6 other CCers in the room as well)

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    74
    So, do you think that people can benefit from training for scenarios such as this?

  5. #5
    Regular Member Publius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northern California Now NH soon
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    1. Propaganda.

    2. Those shirts were designed to make drawing difficult.

    3. If you happen to be where the shooter is shooting first, chances are you will not be stopping him. What if you are in the next room?

    4. The police don't generally train as described in the video.

    5. This video tells us nothing about OC--which, BTW, is the way the police carry.

    6. Propaganda. Oh, yeah, I already said that.
    So say we all.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    GM:

    I think I have said all that your "proof" warrants I say.

    I will not dignify this idiocy with another post.

    Moving on.
    Last edited by eye95; 09-11-2010 at 09:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    2,226
    anyone else notice how crowded and tiny the room was? I've been at many lectures and none were as bad as that without being a huge auditorium, which would have changed things quite a bit.

  8. #8
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    I was calling BS when this crap was first on tv..

    if you listen carefuly you will hear them admit that that had some of the participants
    acted correctly. they picked the worst to show

    i know i would not position myself in the front and center of the room. i would be off to the side and a wall to my back

    agree with mark-in-texas, the bg would not have know who would have been armed

    maybe someone could do a re-enactment of Luby's

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    2,226
    AHA so you are their one nightly viewer!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    anyone else notice how crowded and tiny the room was? I've been at many lectures and none were as bad as that without being a huge auditorium, which would have changed things quite a bit.
    How big are lecture classes at most colleges? My classes consisted of 200+ people and like half the size of a warehouse.

  11. #11
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    The shooter also knew who had the responsibility to take him out. Pure BS.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    1,319
    Ignoring absolutely EVERYTHING that is wrong with this propagandist video, answer me this?

    How would it have turned out any better if they WEREN'T armed?

    Also, regarding: "If you go for a month to two months without training you lose it," referring to keeping in practice to be able to respond to a threat. Most regular LEOs don't train that often.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Also, regarding: "If you go for a month to two months without training you lose it," referring to keeping in practice to be able to respond to a threat. Most regular LEOs don't train that often.
    It is interesting to note that our founding fathers required citizens to be trained in all manner of firearms handling, and to keep oneself in a constant state of readiness!

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    1,424

    Three Words

    Violence Policy Center



    (You have to consider the source.)
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,558
    Quote Originally Posted by George Mann View Post
    I found a video on YouTube that brings up the fact that we can never be too prepared for trouble.

    It may be propaganda, or it may be a warning call. You decide.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&NR=1
    Last edited by zack991; 09-14-2010 at 09:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069
    I thikn the key here is that, in spite of how badly it turned out when being staged by people who have no clue or intention of getting one;

    How would being disarmed have made it any better?

    This is the argument these propagandists are trying to present. Somehow, it would have been better to not have a gun. Really? How?

    Tell me.

    I want to know.

    How is not even trying a good thing?

    This is like showing a car fall off of a cliff and explode in a giant fireball, and then claiming that having your seat belt on would have been useful. Really? How? And maybe crashing into a mountainside at 750mph is completely harmless if you have your tray table up, and your seat in the full upright position. If you don't have a gun, other people shooting at you will have their bullets bounce off. Being helpless makes you impervious to harm.

    Having a gun won't cause you to be impervious, either.

    No one ever said that having a gun guarantees your safety. However, NOT having one DOES guarantee you're DEAD!

    In the same way that CC is better than nothing, but nothing is the only thing CC is better than. Being helpless gives you no more tactical advantage or survivability than a gun burried under a few layers of clothing you have to struggle to get it free from and become useful eventually.... Sure, that's better than not having anything at all, but it sure as hell isn't an advantage over anything other than a fist full of pocket lint.... Moping the bathroom floor with a toothbrush is better than mopping it with nothing; but I'd rather use, say, a MOP!

    OC: Because it sucks to mop the bathroom floor with a toothbrush. Sure, you can do it, but calling it an 'advantage' is stupid. Just like pretending things would turn out better if you were totally helpless... Things don't turn out better when you handicap yourself, either. One is just a little more sarcastic than the other. Both arguments are null by the same reality.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    2,226
    I think its called a red herring I think. Something I have noticed is it really annoys liberal types to have their logical fallacies pointed out to them. I think its because many of them attempt to show or call any arguments they can't refute fallacies.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Leeds, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    786

    Wow.

    I don't always agree with everything you say, ixtow, but that was an awesome post. Very true and kinda inspiring, too. ^_^

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Propaganda. It was obvious that they had trained these folks from an OC stance, then had an exercise from a CCW stance with a very inexperienced individual that couldn't even hit the target at less than 21 feet (shot was way right). Then to top it off, the shooter knew EXACTLY who had the firearm in the 1st one. 2nd one was also trained from OC stance, then given a CCW stance scenario. Neither of which were trained to use cover. Final scenario was from a CCW training stance, but FAIL again as they are not teaching proper draw from a CCW stance....shirt lift to the armpit, firearm comes out and meets the lifted hand, then push out and acquire to shoot if time allows (option to shoot from the ribs if needed). Take note that the defensive shooter was seated in the same place with every scenario.

    I want to bring a bunch of experienced and not experienced police academy students into a room and do the exact same thing. You can bet your butt they'll fail as well...as would any experienced operator or LEO if they didn't know it was coming.

    And what did we learn from both sides on OCDO? That OC'ers become uncomfortable CCW'ing and CCW'ers become uncomfortable OC'ing. Training is everything and that's exactly how you will react.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 09-16-2010 at 11:08 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    184
    I think we aught to make a propaganda video of our own.

    Imagine this: Mock-up lecture hall similar to the one featured in their video, but more amphitheater-like. It'd be built on a range, complete with block wall, podium, blackboard, seats for the students etc. You know: the usual classroom features--make it like a film set.

    Bad guy starts shooting in hallway, people scream and you hear commotion. Everyone on the first row takes cover & establishes a firing position. Bad guy busts into the classroom only to find a firing squad waiting for him. Bad guy says "oh shi..." then use the magic of video to replace the bad guy with a pig dressed up as the bad guy (sort of like they do on Myth-busters)... And everyone opens fire, dumping their mags.

    The pig gets turned into ground pork in slow motion, the block wall disintegrates, etc. Que some delicate opera song. There's casings flying everywhere, chunks of the blackboard and wall exploding into little bits... You get the idea. The screen blacks out to some pithy phrase.

    It would be awesome.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Minneapolis Minnesota
    Posts
    217
    Joe, ^5, count me in.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Regular Member Publius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northern California Now NH soon
    Posts
    67
    @CO-Joe

    Where and when?

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    I think its called a red herring I think.
    Yes, she committed nearly a dozen serious logical fallacies in her presentation. There are several dozen fallacious arguements put forth by agenda-ists who believe their ideas *somehow* trump reality.

    Something I have noticed is it really annoys liberal types to have their logical fallacies pointed out to them. I think its because many of them attempt to show or call any arguments they can't refute fallacies.
    Something I have noticed is that some people's lack of ability to think logically is what allows them to buy into the liberalist horsehockey in the first place. As Qui-Gon Jinn said in Star Wars I: "The ability to speak does not make one intelligent."

    The writer/narrator of the program reminds me most of Jar-Jar.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by CO-Joe View Post
    I think we aught to make a propaganda video of our own.

    ...

    It would be awesome.
    With super slow-mo like when Neo started blasting agents in the building from the helo's 20 mm?

    I'm in.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lincoln Park, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    161
    The video is complete BS!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •