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Proof that Open/Concealed Carriers live in a dream world?

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
1. Propaganda.

2. Those shirts were designed to make drawing difficult.

3. If you happen to be where the shooter is shooting first, chances are you will not be stopping him. What if you are in the next room?

4. The police don't generally train as described in the video.

5. This video tells us nothing about OC--which, BTW, is the way the police carry.

6. Propaganda. Oh, yeah, I already said that.
 

mark-in-texas

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
319
Location
Richmond, Tx
Yes, I've seen this propaganda!! Watch carefully, the 'bad guy' shoots the 'teacher' first then IMMEDIATLY shoots the one guy HE KNOWS is the only other armed person. He even bypasses others who get between himself and the concealed carrier. Look at the choices made. Full size Glock '17' makes a LOUSY concealed carry gun! Too bulky, too angular, gets caught in clothing easily. He may have had some pseudo 'training' but they didn't show him practicing drawing from concealment at all. Lack of tactics; the FIRST thing he should have done is sought cover, then attempted defense if warranted. The big give-away of the slanted nature of the piece is who's narrating!! (Oh, and in the 'perfect' world, there would have been 5 or 6 other CCers in the room as well)
 

Publius

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
67
Location
Northern California Now NH soon
1. Propaganda.

2. Those shirts were designed to make drawing difficult.

3. If you happen to be where the shooter is shooting first, chances are you will not be stopping him. What if you are in the next room?

4. The police don't generally train as described in the video.

5. This video tells us nothing about OC--which, BTW, is the way the police carry.

6. Propaganda. Oh, yeah, I already said that.

So say we all.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
GM:

I think I have said all that your "proof" warrants I say.

I will not dignify this idiocy with another post.

Moving on.
 
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Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
anyone else notice how crowded and tiny the room was? I've been at many lectures and none were as bad as that without being a huge auditorium, which would have changed things quite a bit.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
I was calling BS when this crap was first on tv..

if you listen carefuly you will hear them admit that that had some of the participants
acted correctly. they picked the worst to show

i know i would not position myself in the front and center of the room. i would be off to the side and a wall to my back

agree with mark-in-texas, the bg would not have know who would have been armed

maybe someone could do a re-enactment of Luby's
 

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
anyone else notice how crowded and tiny the room was? I've been at many lectures and none were as bad as that without being a huge auditorium, which would have changed things quite a bit.
How big are lecture classes at most colleges? My classes consisted of 200+ people and like half the size of a warehouse.
 

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
Ignoring absolutely EVERYTHING that is wrong with this propagandist video, answer me this?

How would it have turned out any better if they WEREN'T armed?

Also, regarding: "If you go for a month to two months without training you lose it," referring to keeping in practice to be able to respond to a threat. Most regular LEOs don't train that often.
 

George Mann

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
74
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
Also, regarding: "If you go for a month to two months without training you lose it," referring to keeping in practice to be able to respond to a threat. Most regular LEOs don't train that often.

It is interesting to note that our founding fathers required citizens to be trained in all manner of firearms handling, and to keep oneself in a constant state of readiness!
 

zack991

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,535
Location
Ohio, USA
I found a video on YouTube that brings up the fact that we can never be too prepared for trouble.

It may be propaganda, or it may be a warning call. You decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&NR=1

funny-gifs-kitteh-has-bad-case-of-mondays.gif
 
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ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
I thikn the key here is that, in spite of how badly it turned out when being staged by people who have no clue or intention of getting one;

How would being disarmed have made it any better?

This is the argument these propagandists are trying to present. Somehow, it would have been better to not have a gun. Really? How?

Tell me.

I want to know.

How is not even trying a good thing?

This is like showing a car fall off of a cliff and explode in a giant fireball, and then claiming that having your seat belt on would have been useful. Really? How? And maybe crashing into a mountainside at 750mph is completely harmless if you have your tray table up, and your seat in the full upright position. If you don't have a gun, other people shooting at you will have their bullets bounce off. Being helpless makes you impervious to harm.

Having a gun won't cause you to be impervious, either.

No one ever said that having a gun guarantees your safety. However, NOT having one DOES guarantee you're DEAD!

In the same way that CC is better than nothing, but nothing is the only thing CC is better than. Being helpless gives you no more tactical advantage or survivability than a gun burried under a few layers of clothing you have to struggle to get it free from and become useful eventually.... Sure, that's better than not having anything at all, but it sure as hell isn't an advantage over anything other than a fist full of pocket lint.... Moping the bathroom floor with a toothbrush is better than mopping it with nothing; but I'd rather use, say, a MOP!

OC: Because it sucks to mop the bathroom floor with a toothbrush. Sure, you can do it, but calling it an 'advantage' is stupid. Just like pretending things would turn out better if you were totally helpless... Things don't turn out better when you handicap yourself, either. One is just a little more sarcastic than the other. Both arguments are null by the same reality.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I think its called a red herring I think. Something I have noticed is it really annoys liberal types to have their logical fallacies pointed out to them. I think its because many of them attempt to show or call any arguments they can't refute fallacies.
 

heresyourdipstickjimmy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
279
Location
Mo.
Propaganda. It was obvious that they had trained these folks from an OC stance, then had an exercise from a CCW stance with a very inexperienced individual that couldn't even hit the target at less than 21 feet (shot was way right). Then to top it off, the shooter knew EXACTLY who had the firearm in the 1st one. 2nd one was also trained from OC stance, then given a CCW stance scenario. Neither of which were trained to use cover. Final scenario was from a CCW training stance, but FAIL again as they are not teaching proper draw from a CCW stance....shirt lift to the armpit, firearm comes out and meets the lifted hand, then push out and acquire to shoot if time allows (option to shoot from the ribs if needed). Take note that the defensive shooter was seated in the same place with every scenario.

I want to bring a bunch of experienced and not experienced police academy students into a room and do the exact same thing. You can bet your butt they'll fail as well...as would any experienced operator or LEO if they didn't know it was coming.

And what did we learn from both sides on OCDO? That OC'ers become uncomfortable CCW'ing and CCW'ers become uncomfortable OC'ing. Training is everything and that's exactly how you will react.
 
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CO-Joe

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
184
Location
, ,
I think we aught to make a propaganda video of our own.

Imagine this: Mock-up lecture hall similar to the one featured in their video, but more amphitheater-like. It'd be built on a range, complete with block wall, podium, blackboard, seats for the students etc. You know: the usual classroom features--make it like a film set.

Bad guy starts shooting in hallway, people scream and you hear commotion. Everyone on the first row takes cover & establishes a firing position. Bad guy busts into the classroom only to find a firing squad waiting for him. Bad guy says "oh shi..." then use the magic of video to replace the bad guy with a pig dressed up as the bad guy (sort of like they do on Myth-busters)... And everyone opens fire, dumping their mags.

The pig gets turned into ground pork in slow motion, the block wall disintegrates, etc. Que some delicate opera song. There's casings flying everywhere, chunks of the blackboard and wall exploding into little bits... You get the idea. The screen blacks out to some pithy phrase.

It would be awesome.
 
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