(cross-posted on the Nevada Shooters forum)
This just happened earlier today. I'd like to tell it while it's fresh in my mind.
I have a friend who has gotten herself into a bad situation. She is a single lady, and she's very tiny (five-foot-nothing and 95 pounds). She lives by herself in an apartment a couple of blocks from me. A while back she started allowing a homeless guy to live in her garage because she felt sorry for him. Las Vegas being as hot as it is, he was soon hanging out inside her apartment to keep from roasting during the day, and because she travels she gave him a key to the place. He started "borrowing" her car when she wasn't home, and she never said anything to him about it because, again, she felt sorry for him and she didn't want to be "mean" (her words).
Last week things got really out of hand (his friends hanging out with him in her apartment, things going missing, etc.), one thing led to another, and he grabbed her by the neck and said that he was going to kill her. Obviously the guy is a complete whack job. She didn't want to call the police, but I insisted on changing all of her locks.
This morning she called me to say that last night he came to her door with a bow and arrow (yeah, whack job!) and when she wouldn't unlock the door for him, he went out to the parking lot and slashed two of her car's tires and then went back to "his" garage. I jumped in the car to head over there and try to convince her again to call the police, and if not at least get her out of there. After calling me, she called her brother, and he had enough sense to call the police and meet them there at her place.
When I got there the brother, two Metro officers, and the whack job where out in the parking lot, with the whack job in cuffs. I went to my friend's apartment and she told me that the police hadn't come to talk with her yet. Soon they came to her door and asked her to come outside and talk with them, and her brother came inside to wait with me. I assume at this point the whack job was in the cruiser still in cuffs.
My friend's brother suggested that I take her away when she was done with the police, and I said that I would go and wait for her by my car. This is when it got personal with me.
I opened her front door to see her and the two cops standing right there. The walkway is very narrow, and I said to the cops, "Is it ok if I walk past?" I had to ask because they would have to step aside for me to get through. One of them said to go ahead, and I walked by them. Because of where they were standing, I had to walk by them with my right side to them. That's when they noticed that I was OCing my Star 30M in a belt holster. One of them told me to stop and asked me where I was going. I said that I was going to my car to leave. Then he asked me if I had any "bad intentions." I said, "No sir. I'm just going to my car." He said, "I can't have you walking around with a gun in a volatile situation. Come here."
I walked towards him and he said, "Turn around." I said, "Excuse me?" and his partner said, "He wants you to turn around." I turned my back to him and he reached forward, unsnapped my holster, and disarmed me. I turned around to see him remove the magazine, clear the chamber, and pocket the mag and spare round. He stood there with my handgun in his hand with the slide racked back, and he said, "You can go now. You can get this back later."
I said, "How am I supposed to get that back?" At this point he kicked into Alpha Male, and he said (a bit loud and less than politely), "Don't worry about it. You can get it later." I smiled and said, "All I'm asking for is instructions. If you want me to get that back later, what do I need to do?"
He said, "Are you leaving now?" Even though this had already been explained to him twice, I repeated, "Yes." Seeming frustrated, he handed me the handgun with the slide open, the mag and round still in his pocket, and said, "Go back inside." I took the gun and did as he said. A few minutes later he opened the front door and walked in, handed me the magazine and round, and walked back out. He didn't say to leave the gun unloaded, or to leave it off of my belt, or any other instructions.
Without any word from him, I put the round back in the magazine and put the magazine in my front pocket, and then put the gun back in its holster. A little while later they were done with my friend. They declined to arrest the whack job, but they took a report from my friend and gave her instructions on how to file for a TRO (temporary restraining order). When my friend was ready, I went outside to get my car, and I saw the two cops standing next to their car with the nutjob standing with them. It was far enough away that I couldn't see if he was still in cuffs, but it looked like he wasn't, and of course they had already said that they weren't going to arrest him.
So the situation stands with him still on the apartment complex property, still living in the garage, and my friend still having to come and go from her home knowing that the psycho is still around.
So, now about me. :001_smile:
First let me say that I would have handled my interaction with the cops completely differently if my friend was not involved. The last thing I wanted to do was make her situation worse, although as it turned out the cops didn't really do much for her anyway.
But let's look at what they did do with me. They were there for what amounted to (in their eyes) a domestic dispute. While they are talking to the lady in question, a guy walks out of her apartment with a gun. The suspect is out in the parking lot in their car and unattended. I can understand their concern.
I find it odd that the one officer chose to disarm me without telling me what he was about to do. I don't have to tell you that the "retain your weapon at any cost" reflexes kick in hard when that happens and you are not expecting it.
Next consider that he never asked me for ID. If you had just disarmed a citizen and then told him to leave and collect his firearm "later," wouldn't you at least ask him his name? Similar to other situations involving armed citizens and Metro, I have to wonder about the training that they receive. I would think that there would be a standard procedure for handling a situation like this one.
It didn't occur to me until later that all I had to do before leaving the apartment to walk past the police officers was to conceal my gun by untucking my shirt and pulling it over the holster. Yes, I have a permit and yes it was in my wallet. I would have been legal, and I would have avoided my first interaction with the police over the fact that I carry.
Finally, go ahead and kick me in the pants about not recording. I have a perfectly functional voice recorded that I purchased for exactly this type of situation, but thinking about getting to my friend after she called me I was in "oh sh!t" mode and didn't think to grab it. Very stupid on my part. My philosophy is "Always Carry, Always Record," and I blew it.
I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, or discussion.
(by the way, my friend is fine for now. She was feeling a bit sheepish after having to sit through another lecture from me, and she's now sleeping soundly on my couch)
This just happened earlier today. I'd like to tell it while it's fresh in my mind.
I have a friend who has gotten herself into a bad situation. She is a single lady, and she's very tiny (five-foot-nothing and 95 pounds). She lives by herself in an apartment a couple of blocks from me. A while back she started allowing a homeless guy to live in her garage because she felt sorry for him. Las Vegas being as hot as it is, he was soon hanging out inside her apartment to keep from roasting during the day, and because she travels she gave him a key to the place. He started "borrowing" her car when she wasn't home, and she never said anything to him about it because, again, she felt sorry for him and she didn't want to be "mean" (her words).
Last week things got really out of hand (his friends hanging out with him in her apartment, things going missing, etc.), one thing led to another, and he grabbed her by the neck and said that he was going to kill her. Obviously the guy is a complete whack job. She didn't want to call the police, but I insisted on changing all of her locks.
This morning she called me to say that last night he came to her door with a bow and arrow (yeah, whack job!) and when she wouldn't unlock the door for him, he went out to the parking lot and slashed two of her car's tires and then went back to "his" garage. I jumped in the car to head over there and try to convince her again to call the police, and if not at least get her out of there. After calling me, she called her brother, and he had enough sense to call the police and meet them there at her place.
When I got there the brother, two Metro officers, and the whack job where out in the parking lot, with the whack job in cuffs. I went to my friend's apartment and she told me that the police hadn't come to talk with her yet. Soon they came to her door and asked her to come outside and talk with them, and her brother came inside to wait with me. I assume at this point the whack job was in the cruiser still in cuffs.
My friend's brother suggested that I take her away when she was done with the police, and I said that I would go and wait for her by my car. This is when it got personal with me.
I opened her front door to see her and the two cops standing right there. The walkway is very narrow, and I said to the cops, "Is it ok if I walk past?" I had to ask because they would have to step aside for me to get through. One of them said to go ahead, and I walked by them. Because of where they were standing, I had to walk by them with my right side to them. That's when they noticed that I was OCing my Star 30M in a belt holster. One of them told me to stop and asked me where I was going. I said that I was going to my car to leave. Then he asked me if I had any "bad intentions." I said, "No sir. I'm just going to my car." He said, "I can't have you walking around with a gun in a volatile situation. Come here."
I walked towards him and he said, "Turn around." I said, "Excuse me?" and his partner said, "He wants you to turn around." I turned my back to him and he reached forward, unsnapped my holster, and disarmed me. I turned around to see him remove the magazine, clear the chamber, and pocket the mag and spare round. He stood there with my handgun in his hand with the slide racked back, and he said, "You can go now. You can get this back later."
I said, "How am I supposed to get that back?" At this point he kicked into Alpha Male, and he said (a bit loud and less than politely), "Don't worry about it. You can get it later." I smiled and said, "All I'm asking for is instructions. If you want me to get that back later, what do I need to do?"
He said, "Are you leaving now?" Even though this had already been explained to him twice, I repeated, "Yes." Seeming frustrated, he handed me the handgun with the slide open, the mag and round still in his pocket, and said, "Go back inside." I took the gun and did as he said. A few minutes later he opened the front door and walked in, handed me the magazine and round, and walked back out. He didn't say to leave the gun unloaded, or to leave it off of my belt, or any other instructions.
Without any word from him, I put the round back in the magazine and put the magazine in my front pocket, and then put the gun back in its holster. A little while later they were done with my friend. They declined to arrest the whack job, but they took a report from my friend and gave her instructions on how to file for a TRO (temporary restraining order). When my friend was ready, I went outside to get my car, and I saw the two cops standing next to their car with the nutjob standing with them. It was far enough away that I couldn't see if he was still in cuffs, but it looked like he wasn't, and of course they had already said that they weren't going to arrest him.
So the situation stands with him still on the apartment complex property, still living in the garage, and my friend still having to come and go from her home knowing that the psycho is still around.
So, now about me. :001_smile:
First let me say that I would have handled my interaction with the cops completely differently if my friend was not involved. The last thing I wanted to do was make her situation worse, although as it turned out the cops didn't really do much for her anyway.
But let's look at what they did do with me. They were there for what amounted to (in their eyes) a domestic dispute. While they are talking to the lady in question, a guy walks out of her apartment with a gun. The suspect is out in the parking lot in their car and unattended. I can understand their concern.
I find it odd that the one officer chose to disarm me without telling me what he was about to do. I don't have to tell you that the "retain your weapon at any cost" reflexes kick in hard when that happens and you are not expecting it.
Next consider that he never asked me for ID. If you had just disarmed a citizen and then told him to leave and collect his firearm "later," wouldn't you at least ask him his name? Similar to other situations involving armed citizens and Metro, I have to wonder about the training that they receive. I would think that there would be a standard procedure for handling a situation like this one.
It didn't occur to me until later that all I had to do before leaving the apartment to walk past the police officers was to conceal my gun by untucking my shirt and pulling it over the holster. Yes, I have a permit and yes it was in my wallet. I would have been legal, and I would have avoided my first interaction with the police over the fact that I carry.
Finally, go ahead and kick me in the pants about not recording. I have a perfectly functional voice recorded that I purchased for exactly this type of situation, but thinking about getting to my friend after she called me I was in "oh sh!t" mode and didn't think to grab it. Very stupid on my part. My philosophy is "Always Carry, Always Record," and I blew it.
I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, or discussion.
(by the way, my friend is fine for now. She was feeling a bit sheepish after having to sit through another lecture from me, and she's now sleeping soundly on my couch)
