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Thread: Gene German Asks For Money to Help Brad Krause...

  1. #1
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    Gene German Asks For Money to Help Brad Krause...

    but he could have done it without slamming "gun rights groups"...




    "A lawsuit has been filed in Federal court against the City of West Allis by Brad Krause, the man arrested at gunpoint while planting a tree.

    THIS COULD HAVE BEEN YOU

    In August of 2008 Brad was enjoying the summer weather by planting a tree in his yard when a neighbor called the West Allis Police Department wondering if a person can wear a holstered firearm within city limits. Police responded by sending two squad cars to Brad's residence where they found him digging a hole for the tree lying on the ground next to him. The officers immediately drew their weapons and handcuffed him at gunpoint.

    IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE FOR YOU--AND CERTAINLY NOT FOR POLICE

    After forty-five minutes of standing in his yard trying to figure out what crime they could charge him with, police finally decided to place Brad under arrest for Disorderly Conduct While Armed. Brad had to post bail and was to appear in front of the Drug and Gun unit Monday morning. Since the arrest occurred late Friday night, there wasn't even time for him to obtain an attorney.

    After reviewing the case the District Attorney's office for Wisconsin decided to postpone, and later drop the charges. The City of West Allis, however, had no intention of letting Brad--nor anyone else for that matter--exercise their lawful right to carry a sidearm for personal protection, and continued to prosecute even though no law was broken.

    At the first hearing an officer testified he saw a man with a holstered sidearm planting a tree, so he called for backup. When a second officer arrived, both drew their guns and pointed them at Brad while shouting orders with fingers on the triggers, ready to plant the environmentalist six feet under. Brad's attorney asked what provoked the officers to use deadly force in such an uneventful situation. Both officers answered, "He had a gun."

    Other than re-confirming the fact that Brad was lawfully armed, the prosecution offered no other evidence, basing the entire case on lawful possession being unlawful because...they said so. Judge Paul Murphy found Brad not guilty and dismissed the charges.

    The case helped convince Wisconsin's Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen to issue a memorandum on April 20th, 2009 to law enforcement stating open carry is lawful, and in the absence of any other suspicion of criminal activity, is not by itself disorderly conduct. Van Hollen also advised police what constitutes lawful detention--a "Terry stop," and also unlawful contact with armed citizens--a Fourth Amendment violation.

    WEST ALLIS REFUSES TO OBEY STATE LAWS

    What makes this case so serious is the extreme extent to which the city of West Allis has gone to make Brad's life as difficult as possible, even after Judge Murphy exonerated him. The city knows for certain Brad never broke any law by carrying a sidearm and that he continues to not break any state firearms law, yet police continue to closely monitor him as if he were a dangerous criminal. (If only they would expend those resources to monitor real criminals that closely!)

    Police have repeatedly warned Brad of another arrest if he does not bend to their will and stop exercising his statutory authority under Wisconsin Statute 941.23 to openly carry a gun, which is further protected by Article 1 Section 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution. Compounding the problem for the city, state law preempts them from regulating firearms (Wisconsin Statute 66.0409).

    West Allis solution to circumvent your rights and state law was to create a defacto carry ban through their police powers by creating a "police policy" to unlawfully threaten and arrest citizens who lawfully carry. West Allis Deputy Chief Rick Balistrieri brazenly admitted to having this police policy immediately after Judge Paul Murphy's verdict was issued in Bradís case. Deputy Chief Balistrieri said Judge Murphy's verdict finding Brad innocent wonít change the way his officers respond to similar calls regarding lawfully armed citizens.

    THUGS WITH BADGES

    The police acted out their threat in a very public attempt to arrest Brad a second time, just one day after the Attorney General issued his memorandum on open carry, even after Brad made repeated attempts to reach a reasonable understanding with several West Allis government agencies. This time, Brad was being interviewed on the sidewalk in front of his home by a Milwaukee TV station when two West Allis squads suddenly stopped in the middle of the street with all their blinky lights on.

    The news camera captured the interrogation as three more squads provided back up support for the dangerous situation police created for Brad--and for themselves. Officers said that had the TV crew not been there they would have put Brad face down on the ground at gunpoint and decided if they would allow him to exercise his rights, or put him back in jail.

    This example of the repeated police interaction with Brad makes it clear the police ignored state law, the Attorney General's clear instruction on proper police contact with a lawfully armed citizen, police training on specific conditions when it is proper (or not) for police to use lethal force, and the recent decision of the court finding the police wrongfully arrested Brad. No, this was not a case of ignorant police officers flying by the seat of their pants; this is instead proof of the West Allis police department continuing their defacto carry ban to unlawfully disarm citizens.

    Apparently, the city and police view citizens who exercise their liberty as a threat to the power and control they have seized over the lives of their subjects. Brad said that after two long years the city has not fundamentally changed its policing policy and has left him no choice but to file a complaint in support of his civil rights.

    WHO ISN'T INVOLVED!

    Are you wondering why the gun organizations that keep begging for money to defend "gun rights" haven't told you about this? They've said for years "nothing will happen until we get a new governor." That idea was turned upside-down when the state's case against Brad fell apart and the city's case was crushed. The local and national news agencies, not the "gun rights" groups, were the ones to cover the story.

    "Gun rights" groups aren't about "your rights," they're about guns and money and politics, which is why they still make empty promises and ask for more and more of your money. While they continue to try to blow smoke up your skirt, Brad has been playing whack-a-mole with his own and surrounding communities that pop up with illegal bans on your rights. We need to back the guy doing the job and getting results, not those who keep promising to do something somewhere in the future--and only if you give them more money!

    WHERE ARE ALL THE LAWYERS WHEN ONE IS NEEDED?

    It is no coincidence that Brad had to prepare and file his own lawsuit, at his own expense. Federal law makes it exceedingly difficult to recover damages and restore a person's life and liberty when the government decides to take them away, and most attorneys fear being seen as "fighting the system" of which they are a part. Brad has to continue to educate himself on federal law and bear the cost and burden of bringing a case against the establishment, something few people are willing to do. This is not the as-seen-on-TV one-hour show where the good guy wins in the last seven minutes, but the real life justice system where you're the little guy with the deck stacked against you by the political ruling class with an un-ending stream of your heavily taxed income to use against you.

    RESTORING "LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL" COSTS A LOT, FOR A REASON

    Civil lawsuits are very expensive and every step of the way costs more money. The city has an endless amount of money and lawyers. Brad has neither, but he does have a good case that needs to be fought. Even if you don't live in West Allis, you are a stakeholder in this case. You have one person who is literally willing to fight city hall, but he can't do it successfully by himself.

    I am asking for your financial help, not for the Wisconsin Patriots but for Brad Krause. Think of this as an investment you can make that will send a strong message across the state which should put an end to unlawful police harassment. A win and substantial damages will be noticed by every Police Chief, Mayor, City Council member, and the Legislature, which is why winning this case is in every liberty-loving personís best interest.

    Should Brad prevail, he will return contributions made for his legal assistance from any money that he receives from the City of West Allis. Brad's win is also your win, and Brad's loss is also your loss.

    Supporting Brad with a contribution increases the chance that he can win this case for everyone.

    SEVERAL WAYS TO JOIN THE FIGHT

    A legal assistance account has been set up at Wells Fargo Bank (which supports our rights and welcomes lawfully armed customers) under account number 1916044413. Freedom may not be free, but you can defend your rights (without being arrested) in one of several ways:

    - Wells Fargo customers can transfer money on-line for free.
    - To make an electronic funds transfer from another bank, use Wells Fargo routing number 075911988.
    - You can deposit a check or cash at any Wells Fargo office by referencing Brad Krause and account number 1916044413.
    - You can even use PayPal using the e-mail address brad.krause@wi.rr.com, selecting the "Personal" tab then "Other".

    Please be sure to inform Brad (brad.krause@wi.rr.com) of your contribution including the date made, the amount, and your contact information (include your preferred e-mail address). PayPal users can include this information in the comments section.

    PLEASE forward this email to everyone you know who may be willing to help Brad stand up for our rights! Don't wait for a hollow promise of "tomorrow" when someone is succeeding today.

    REFERENCES

    Attorney General memorandum on open carry & the West Allis case:

    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/file...nCarryMemo.pdf

    Wisconsin Statute 941.23:

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf

    Article 1 Section 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/wisconst.pdf

    Wisconsin Statute 66.0409:

    http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0066.pdf

    WISN 12 interview and near arrest:

    http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html

    Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel article reporting the civil claim:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/101340644.html

    Itís about liberty, your liberty.

    Gene German
    Minnesota DPS Certified - Senior AACFI Firearms Instructor

    AACFI Wisconsin State Director

    Wisconsin Patriots, Founder

    Wisconsin Gun Rights Examiner

    http://www.examiner.com/x-5103-Wisco...ights-Examiner

    www.permittocarry.us

    www.wisconsinpatriots.com

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Heads going to explode!

    How disingenuous , Damb where the hell is my duct tape.

    Frank hannan-rock

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    lol brother. I know....

    Brad's got a good case and should indeed lawyer up for the litigation if it comes to that. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it gets settled for an "undisclosed amount" out of court.

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    Regular Member lance galloway's Avatar
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    Does not Wisconsin Carry have a lawyer that could represent Brad ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lance galloway View Post
    Does not Wisconsin Carry have a lawyer that could represent Brad ?
    I can't answer for the WCI board, but they of course pick and choose their battles wisely...

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    Regular Member lance galloway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I can't answer for the WCI board, but they of course pick and choose their battles wisely...
    I don't know all the facts of this case but from what I have read it seems to be a good case and one that WCI should take on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lance galloway View Post
    Does not Wisconsin Carry have a lawyer that could represent Brad ?
    Hey Lance,

    Gosh, the history on this 'situation' goes back years. Far before WCI was even incorporated.

    I'm struggling for how much to share publicly so I'll just state that WCI would work with anyone who we felt shared our mission and principles and that we could agree on the most effective strategy to accomplish those goals.

    We do believe Mr. Krause should obtain legal counsel. We have qualified attorneys with experience in these matters which could potentially be a resource for Mr. Krause should he have chosen to work with us.

    Beyond that, we don't feel its a good investment of WCI funds to contribute money to an individual who is filing a lawsuit in Federal court Pro Se.

    A good outcome in this case would continue to set positive precedents much like the judgement WCI obtained against Racine. We hope Brad seeks or has experienced legal counsel.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    lance you can't help someone who doesn't want your help.

    Lance why did Gene not mention what W.C.I. Has accomplished so far ( judgement against city of Racine) and the lawsuits still pending.

    WHO ISN'T INVOLVED!

    Are you wondering why the gun organizations that keep begging for money to defend "gun rights" haven't told you about this? They've said for years "nothing will happen until we get a new governor." That idea was turned upside-down when the state's case against Brad fell apart and the city's case was crushed. The local and national news agencies, not the "gun rights" groups, were the ones to cover the story.

    "Gun rights" groups aren't about "your rights," they're about guns and money and politics, which is why they still make empty promises and ask for more and more of your money. While they continue to try to blow smoke up your skirt, Brad has been playing whack-a-mole with his own and surrounding communities that pop up with illegal bans on your rights. We need to back the guy doing the job and getting results, not those who keep promising to do something somewhere in the future--and only if you give them more money!

    WHERE ARE ALL THE LAWYERS WHEN ONE IS NEEDED?

    It is no coincidence that Brad had to prepare and file his own lawsuit, at his own expense. Federal law makes it exceedingly difficult to recover damages and restore a person's life and liberty when the government decides to take them away, and most attorneys fear being seen as "fighting the system" of which they are a part. Brad has to continue to educate himself on federal law and bear the cost and burden of bringing a case against the establishment, something few people are willing to do. This is not the as-seen-on-TV one-hour show where the good guy wins in the last seven minutes, but the real life justice system where you're the little guy with the deck stacked against you by the political ruling class with an un-ending stream of your heavily taxed income to use against you.

  9. #9
    Regular Member lance galloway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Hey Lance,

    Gosh, the history on this 'situation' goes back years. Far before WCI was even incorporated.

    I'm struggling for how much to share publicly so I'll just state that WCI would work with anyone who we felt shared our mission and principles and that we could agree on the most effective strategy to accomplish those goals.

    We do believe Mr. Krause should obtain legal counsel. We have qualified attorneys with experience in these matters which could potentially be a resource for Mr. Krause should he have chosen to work with us.

    Beyond that, we don't feel its a good investment of WCI funds to contribute money to an individual who is filing a lawsuit in Federal court Pro Se.

    A good outcome in this case would continue to set positive precedents much like the judgement WCI obtained against Racine. We hope Brad seeks or has experienced legal counsel.
    Thanks Nik this answers my question

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    There's more to the story

    As an avid reader of this forum (and it's arguments) I HATE to derail a thread, you guys are able to do that all by yourselves, but there seems to be a whole other side to this story. I thought I saw a post somewhere about Krause hurting his back. Now I'm not begrudging this guy anything, but the facts of the case are:

    1. No lawsuit.
    2. Fall and get hurt.
    3. Now file $50,000,000 lawsuit. Complaint.pdf
    4. Beg for money from fellow gun supporters. (Win/loose) your money goes directly to Krause, not the attorney cause he ain't got one.
    5. Have a Minnesota CCW instructor do your begging.
    Last edited by Veto The Tax; 09-14-2010 at 07:31 AM.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Veto The Tax: welcome to O.C.D.O. And Thank You for posting the complaint.

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    That was a good read, and well written if you ask me. There were a few grammatical errors that I noticed, but the case appears to be a good one for Brad.

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    IMHO, The article is nothing more than an attack on WCI by the likes of the mandated training entrepreneur, Gene German. He knows most of the gun rights groups are against mandated training and that would put a wrench in his plans with new legislation here in Wisconsin. Why doesn't Gene German the Minnesota resident worry about what is happening in Minnesota and leave Wisconsin too us? As Doug would say,"Follow the money."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veto The Tax View Post
    As an avid reader of this forum (and it's arguments) I HATE to derail a thread, you guys are able to do that all by yourselves, but there seems to be a whole other side to this story. I thought I saw a post somewhere about Krause hurting his back. Now I'm not begrudging this guy anything, but the facts of the case are:

    1. No lawsuit.
    2. Fall and get hurt.
    3. Now file $50,000,000 lawsuit. Complaint.pdf
    4. Beg for money from fellow gun supporters. (Win/loose) your money goes directly to Krause, not the attorney cause he ain't got one.
    5. Have a Minnesota CCW instructor do your begging.
    OMG! What a slap in the face! (IMHO)
    In reference to an age old saying, " 90% of the people doin' the bitching and 10% of the people doin' the work"
    That's not to say there are not good people here on this form doing their parts, however when ONE lone man decides to take on a LARGE entity seeming all by himself, more power to him!
    If Brad is successful, just imagine the potential benefits we all would reap, possibly laying the ground work for ALL of us!
    I don't care how much $ he could be awarded, this seems to be the ONLY way to get the point across that LEO (West Allis PD) are (should) be held to the highest of standards.
    Veto the Tax, where do you get off with such an attack? I've spoken to Brad on several occasions and met with him, he is as passionate a person for 2A rights as you'll find (Others may disagree)
    I say, Good luck Brad! You've got my support 100%!

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    Originally Posted by Veto The Tax
    As an avid reader of this forum (and it's arguments) I HATE to derail a thread, you guys are able to do that all by yourselves, but there seems to be a whole other side to this story. I thought I saw a post somewhere about Krause hurting his back. Now I'm not begrudging this guy anything, but the facts of the case are:

    1. No lawsuit.
    2. Fall and get hurt.
    3. Now file $50,000,000 lawsuit. Attachment 3913
    4. Beg for money from fellow gun supporters. (Win/loose) your money goes directly to Krause, not the attorney cause he ain't got one.
    5. Have a Minnesota CCW instructor do your begging.

    It doesn't take much for Gene German to get involved, all he has to do is smell money and credit for getting something accomplished through the work of others. All he is interested in is getting legislation for mandated training so he and the rest of his pocket stuffers can get rich off of our training fees.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 09-15-2010 at 09:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    OMG! What a slap in the face! (IMHO)
    In reference to an age old saying, " 90% of the people doin' the bitching and 10% of the people doin' the work"
    That's not to say there are not good people here on this form doing their parts, however when ONE lone man decides to take on a LARGE entity seeming all by himself, more power to him!
    If Brad is successful, just imagine the potential benefits we all would reap, possibly laying the ground work for ALL of us!
    I don't care how much $ he could be awarded, this seems to be the ONLY way to get the point across that LEO (West Allis PD) are (should) be held to the highest of standards.
    Veto the Tax, where do you get off with such an attack? I've spoken to Brad on several occasions and met with him, he is as passionate a person for 2A rights as you'll find (Others may disagree)
    I say, Good luck Brad! You've got my support 100%!
    Gene German IS correct, gun rights orgs like (WGO, WI-FORCE, NRA, GOA, SAF) all remained mute when this happened to Brad, just like most of the state of WI. I wrote letters and actually lobbied the orgs to help both Krause and Gonzalez, did you? Some of us, DID SEND HIM MONEY. We donated time and $$$ for "operation carryland" (the radio spots in 2009). I risked arrest, JUST LIKE Brad, back in 2008, DID YOU? Guess that makes me one of the few who bitches while I do the work.

    Let's get everything out in the open:

    1. Brad is an AACFI instructor, as such it is in his financial best interest to have WI get a permit system. I say NO PERMIT required for a RIGHT.

    2. Brad has traveled the state providing MN Carry permit training and in those classes DISCOURAGED people from carrying, saying "don't do it until we get CC in WI or you'll get what happened to me."

    I have personally talked with almost a dozen people (state wide, different towns) who took instruction from him and they are now AFRAID to exercise their rights. That alone is a DIS-Service to the cause. Brad is the ONLY one out of thousands carrying who was charged, so statistically you WON'T be arrested, detained, or otherwise harassed, but the "students" of his classes are telling me he says, "DON'T DO IT."

    Were is WCI, why didn't they file this so he WOULDN'T have any costs?

    According the "Chairman," "We do believe Mr. Krause should obtain legal counsel. We have qualified attorneys with experience in these matters which could potentially be a resource for Mr. Krause should he have chosen to work with us."

    So it looks like WCI offered help, why didn't Brad take their help? Because HE wants the spotlight, he wants the attention. This whole thing smells more like its about Brad and Gene than about the right.

    I DO NOT WANT the out-of-staters from IL running WI. Likewise, I DON'T want some guy from MN interfering here either.

    Do I want Krause to succeed, HECK YEA, but I also believe everybody should have ALL THE FACTS, and these ARE the facts.

    ** flame retardant suit on, so have at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veto The Tax View Post
    Gene German IS correct, gun rights orgs like (WGO, WI-FORCE, NRA, GOA, SAF) all remained mute when this happened to Brad, just like most of the state of WI. I wrote letters and actually lobbied the orgs to help both Krause and Gonzalez, did you? Some of us, DID SEND HIM MONEY. We donated time and $$$ for "operation carryland" (the radio spots in 2009). I risked arrest, JUST LIKE Brad, back in 2008, DID YOU? Guess that makes me one of the few who bitches while I do the work.

    Let's get everything out in the open:

    1. Brad is an AACFI instructor, as such it is in his financial best interest to have WI get a permit system. I say NO PERMIT required for a RIGHT.

    2. Brad has traveled the state providing MN Carry permit training and in those classes DISCOURAGED people from carrying, saying "don't do it until we get CC in WI or you'll get what happened to me."

    I have personally talked with almost a dozen people (state wide, different towns) who took instruction from him and they are now AFRAID to exercise their rights. That alone is a DIS-Service to the cause. Brad is the ONLY one out of thousands carrying who was charged, so statistically you WON'T be arrested, detained, or otherwise harassed, but the "students" of his classes are telling me he says, "DON'T DO IT."

    Were is WCI, why didn't they file this so he WOULDN'T have any costs?

    According the "Chairman," "We do believe Mr. Krause should obtain legal counsel. We have qualified attorneys with experience in these matters which could potentially be a resource for Mr. Krause should he have chosen to work with us."

    So it looks like WCI offered help, why didn't Brad take their help? Because HE wants the spotlight, he wants the attention. This whole thing smells more like its about Brad and Gene than about the right.

    I DO NOT WANT the out-of-staters from IL running WI. Likewise, I DON'T want some guy from MN interfering here either.

    Do I want Krause to succeed, HECK YEA, but I also believe everybody should have ALL THE FACTS, and these ARE the facts.

    ** flame retardant suit on, so have at it.
    +10000

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    Now, we can debate people's motives all day. But the bottom line here is this:

    1. Brad was detained, arrested, and prosecuted for a crime he did not commit
    2. He is now seeking retribution for the many laws and rights that were violated by the police. And more power to him. Apparantly he spent all his money on his intial defense which we now owe a great thank you to (1 month later the VanHollen memo was issued). Many of us helped him financially with his defense but he had to fend off malicious prosecution only equaled by the gestapo.

    Yes, clearly, legal council would help his case. Regardless of what people may have heard in his classes, the man deserves to win a judgement against West Allis and the WA taxpayers should be furious enough to demand the WAPD get with the program and stop violating people's rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithman View Post
    Many of us helped him financially with his defense but he had to fend off malicious prosecution only equaled by the gestapo.
    You probably meant Persecution not Prosecution but I'm thinking that the Nazi Gestapo were probably a wee bit more persecutory than the West Allis PD... just sayin'.

  20. #20
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Soapbox

    I cannot understand the vitriol about Brad and Gene. I have never met either one and I understand both of them are 'instructors' (big deal), but are they (at least Brad) moving the ball forward?

    Don't know about you, but I'd be a little pissed if my local PD kept violating my rights and threatening and trying to intimidate me. Just doing a felony stop on me in my front yard would be enough for me to file a suit.

    As for Brad recommending to his students to not OC, would you not err on the side of caution as well after what he's been through?

    As for Gene, I didn't read it as a slam of WCI, more of the national organizations, such as the NRA.

    As with Jesus, if we don't agree with it or don't like him, just don't write a check!

    /soapbox off.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=paul@paul-fisher.com;1355420]Soapbox

    I cannot understand the vitriol about Brad and Gene. I have never met either one and I understand both of them are 'instructors' (big deal), but are they (at least Brad) moving the ball forward?

    Paul I don't have a problem with Brad filing his lawsuit I too hope that he is sucsessful.

    Gene and co. will not be an allie for a repeal on the conceal carry ban, but will push for a permit system with required training.
    Training is not a bad thing but should be left up to the individual.
    late for work have to go.

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    [QUOTE=springfield 1911;1355428]
    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Soapbox

    I cannot understand the vitriol about Brad and Gene. I have never met either one and I understand both of them are 'instructors' (big deal), but are they (at least Brad) moving the ball forward?

    Paul I don't have a problem with Brad filing his lawsuit I too hope that he is sucsessful.

    Gene and co. will not be an allie for a repeal on the conceal carry ban, but will push for a permit system with required training.
    Training is not a bad thing but should be left up to the individual.
    late for work have to go.
    +1000

    All Gene and Co. want to do is push the legislators for mandated training and he would like to be selected by the state to overlook that training. This way he can set the price and get rich off of the people of Wisconsin. This is nothing more than a money scam for him.
    Leave the issues in Wisconsin for the Wisconsin people to deal with. Worry about what is going on in your own state of Minnesota!

  23. #23
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    A couple of thoughts:

    I cannot understand the vitriol about Brad and Gene. I have never met either one and I understand both of them are 'instructors' (big deal), but are they (at least Brad) moving the ball forward?
    Before the AG memo, before WCI existed many of us were trying to "move the ball forward" with an open-carry picnic. The idea was posted and dozens of forum members expressed interest, so we pulled the trigger, reserved park space and began to plan the picnic. Brad Krause (who posted under the name Pointman at the time) PM'd people who expressed interest in attending in previous threads and convinced them it was a bad idea. I know this because Brad PM'd ME and tried to convince me not to have an OC picnic saying it would hurt the cause. I believe Brad really thought it was a bad idea... But I don't think it was. In retrospect, I think I was right. All the OC picnics and press have really moved the ball forward as far as public awareness. His efforts, I believe sabotaged what we were trying to do (again, this was 6 months before WCI was even an idea)

    The day of the AG memo Ch. 12 did an interview with me. They also wanted to do a "hidden camera" story on me OC'ing in a store to see if you REALLY could OC in public. Brad called me a day before I was going to do the story (3 days after the memo) and said "lay low, no media, no OC'ing" I was like WHAT???? Lay low? The fire is hot. STOKE IT. Again, I won't pretend to know what Brad's motivations were, but I will say that I do not understand them. They seem way off base and detrimental to the cause (my opinion) I think he thinks his 'way' was the best way. We just disagree.

    So to respond to your question Paul, I don't think its vitriol extended towards Brad and Gene. I think honestly, its just confusion and mistrust/unsure of their motives.

    Brad chose not to file a lawsuit after his acquittal on municipal charges. I know he was offered GOOD legal help. Turned it down. Now over a year and a half later he files a lawsuit pro se. Why he has chosen to file... I don't know. I'm just speculating.

    I will say this:

    Its VERY important that Brad wins this case. When Jesus's Federal Case was lost the Madison Police Department used it in its training memo's suggesting that "in one courts view" OC is disorderly. THANK-GOODNESS that case has now been appealed. It was a bad ruling AND it was only in Federal DISTRICT court (non binding precedent) but it is NOT good for the movement to LOSE even district cases.

    Its VERY important for Brad to win this case. Thats why I STRONGLY urge him to get legal counsel. As for his request of money. Filing a federal case is ONLY expensive if you have to pay an attorney. Brad (according to Gene) has no attorney. I believe its a $350 filing fee to file the federal case (if my memory serves correct from the last filing WCI did). If you are Pro Se you have no attorney fee's. Where is all the money going?

    If people want to give money to Brad I suggest they make it contingent upon his obtaining qualified legal counsel first. A win is good, a loss is BAD. Federal District court (in Milwaukee) is a crap shoot. We all know we have at least one Judge Lynn Adelman who is ALL over the map and can't be counted on for a good ruling.

    Hopefully the appeal which has just been filed in the Gonzalez case will set a binding precedent which will apply to Brad's case. Brad's treatment by West Allis WAS a violation of his rights. NO doubt about it. They violated Brad's rights big time, and even after his being found not guilty, they continued to violate Brad's rights.

    I hope Brad wins big-time. A big-time win is good for the movement no matter what Brad's motivation was to file the suit.

    I don't know what Brad needs the money for, since he doesn't have an attorney.

    Hopefully the original Gonzalez lawsuit provided a good template for Brad for filing the suit he has already filed and the appeal (and hopeful positive outcome of the appeal) of the Gonzalez suit will establish a binding precedent that will apply to Brad's case as well.

    So I'm rootin for ya Brad. Just not interested in sending you money for personal expenses. I gave you $500 standing outside the West Allis courtroom AFTER you were found not guilty under the assumption that you were going to file a civil case. Glad to see you finally filed one. Its 1.5 years late IMO but better late than never. I hope you get qualified legal counsel. If you want WCI's help, you know how to find us.
    Last edited by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman; 09-16-2010 at 12:39 PM.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

  24. #24
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Nik,

    Thank you for the well thought out, reasonable response.

    I guess that is a good question, if he is filling pro se, why does he need donations?

    Anyhow, let me echo Nik's statement. You MUST win. Any loss will be amplified. If you need legal help, ask for it. I want you to win, I want the right to carry as I see fit with no need for training or permit and wherever I want.

    I am willing to accept less than that. That's just what I want.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Birdhunter's Avatar
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    Agree 100% with Nik & Paul. Regardless of past history, he must win this lawsuit!

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