" Can I see some ID?....."

Me and a friend were helping another friend with some repair jobs around his parents house. So we all went to Home Depot for supplies and I had my .45 with me and one of my friends borrowed my 9mm to try OCing around here (he's from ohio). So after wandering about the store for about 30 mins. and talking to and being helped by about a half a dozen or so employees, we come out of an isle and find 2 appleton PD officers that were looking for us. Someone made a MWAG call and they had to check it out. So, in the course of playing the "lets see some ID game", one of us coughed us his Ohio DL, one didnt have any, and I stuck with " I'm not doing anything wrong, so I'm really required to and therefore I'd rather not". After 5-10 minutes of the one officer trying to guilt me into giving up my ID, they gave up and we were allowed to continue with our shopping. we were there about another 15-20 mins. when one friend asked me, on the way to the checkout. what the chances were that the cops would be waiting outside to pull over so they could run the plates and find out what wouldn't tell them before.

That's something I hadn't considerd before..... if pulled over after refusing to ID oneself before, would having the plates run be some sort of invasion of privacy, or would I then be required to show ID because it's a "traffic stop" even though I probably didnt commit a traffic violation. Could I still refuse?.

BTW, the cops were just leaving the lot after giving up waiting ( I think) as we were leaving the store

I'm sure many will do that. They have done similar acts many times. Many officer's don't like it when they don't get what they want and will make it a mission to get what they want. I could say more but I'm trying not to bash. So in summary it certainly isn't beneath them to wait. But if the friend did ID himself, then make him drive. They already know who he is. If your not driving, you can refuse. If your the driver...hand it over.

Nice job sticking to you guns.[no pun intended]

damn, wish i was part of your home depot party.

good job refusing, and sticking to it.

Deek said:

Could I still refuse?.

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Nope. You must establish your privilege to drive.

and I stuck with " I'm not doing anything wrong, so I'm really required to and therefore I'd rather not". After 5-10 minutes of the one officer trying to guilt me into giving up my ID, they gave up and we were allowed to continue with our shopping. we were there about another 15-20 mins.

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Bravo!

Well done, Carry On!

Nice work! Folks ( and LEOs) are starting to get it.
BTW thanks to the folks that have OCd before and had to deal with the undereducated and paved the road to many uneventful encounters (Frank, Jesus, MKEGal, etc).

You are paving more road for even more uneventful encounters.

Carry on!

cute; they come down and detain you while on the taxpayers time, then they hang around in the parkinglot- again on the tax payers time. guess they didn't get J.B.'s memo?

and as always; thank you for shopping at cop mart.

Gee, never thought of myself as a trailblazer before...

This afternoon I went to the grocery. Stopped by the cust. service desk to read the latest sale flier, and while I'm standing there reading it (with a cart, my bag in the cart) there's a conference of several employees obviously discussing my sidearm.

"Is that legal?"
"Yeah, I think it's legal in Wisconsin."
Most of the conversation I didn't hear.

I glanced at them, smiled, & nodded as I went past into the produce section. They just looked at me, but didn't say anything. I half expected to be followed & have to deal with a WWAG call, but all was peaceful.

What a nice change.

I find this kind of funny, since Customer Service seems to be a thing of the past. While I shop and do most activities armed, I find that it is easier to get am employee to help me out at just about any store I go to. I usually have one "following" me as I go through the store. I love Open Carry!

I agree

qball54208 said:

I find this kind of funny, since Customer Service seems to be a thing of the past. While I shop and do most activities armed, I find that it is easier to get am employee to help me out at just about any store I go to. I usually have one "following" me as I go through the store. I love Open Carry!

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I have been testing this theory and I agree. A couple weeks ago I bought a little too much to carry and with full lines at the Kwik Trip in West Salem, the clerk said I'll give you a hand getting that to your car, now that is a first ever, always before it was two trips to the vehicle but this time I was carrying with a smile.

Deek said:

SNIP That's something I hadn't considerd before..... if pulled over after refusing to ID oneself before, would having the plates run be some sort of invasion of privacy, or would I then be required to show ID because it's a "traffic stop" even though I probably didnt commit a traffic violation. Could I still refuse?

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I've read a number of court cases where the car was stopped for suspicion of a crime not a traffic offense. As far as I can recall, the question before the appeals court was whether reasonable suspicion existed to justify the seizure. Moral of the story: Cops don't need a traffic offense to make a traffic stop. For example, the cops don't have to follow a bank robber, waiting for him to break the traffic law before they can make the stop.

The problem is that cops can follow somebody for a little while until they screw up and commit a lesser known traffic violation. Very few, if any, citizens know every single traffic law and follow them all without mistake.

One book I've read--by a former cop--explains that a favorite cop tactic is to just follow somebody and see if they get nervous enough just by being followed to screw up and violate some lesser known traffic law. Of course, something already attracted the cop's attention. Maybe the car is beat up and driving in a neighborhood known for drug possession.

Of course, the cop can just invent a traffic violation, too.

So, I wouldn't refuse to provide my license during a traffic stop, while driving, just because I was totally certain the cop was only trying to ID me after an earlier foot-encounter ID refusal. Too much advantage on the cop's side.

The tactic of having my friend drive us out of the area is a good idea.... except the cases were in my car and that would of shown which car was mine. And it would of been a LONG walk home with GFSZ's and all....

Oh well, the price of being a trend setter eh?

So you just call a friend and say hey come pick me up would yah. Or Parent brother sister or just wait it out. If the officer was kinda being difficult, then you might wanna just wait. Otherwise just go about your business. Hopefully you had your recorder going during the conversation and when he pulls you over...just use it all as evidence if anything ever happened. Or if an officer seems to be just waiting for you. Call the department non emergency number and ask for a SGT or LT. Ask them why an officer is just sitting in a HD parking lot etc and tell them you have seen him there for a while. Ask if he has official business there. I bet within 5 minutes...he will be gone. Or walk to where you can see him, he can see you and just watch him with a video camera, then keep showing the camera the time. He might get the idea. Of course some of this could be fueling the fire...but could be fun too as well as show a pattern of harassment if it reaches that level.

a good one to play would be, now that he got your i.d., ask him to produce his, after all phony police abound, and uniforms and badges can be bought off the internet. fair is fair, he got to see yours, now he can whip out his wallet and show his, give him an idea of how it feels.