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Rights of citizens when Police order to leave Public place

confedneck

confedneck

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And I politely would like to inform you that your suggestion means squat to me.

Telling someone to get the hell away from you is HARDLY confrontational. And as for the guy in the target store, he should have knocked that moron on his ass after he grabbed for his gun.
 
A

aadvark

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Although it is late in my response, as it seems the conversation has evolved from what the original Thread what Posted for, I would like to comment on potential Criminal Tresspassing Issues concerning Public Property.

First, allow me to start with the comment that Private Property is the basis and founding of our Country, and Private Property Owners, can, and ought to be able to, Regulate their Private Property in any way that they deem fit. The Fifth Amendment provides that: '... Private Property shall NOT be taken for Public use, without JUST Compensation.'

However, in the realm of Public Property, that which is owned by everyone in consideration of Taxes, should belong to THE PEOPLE.
 
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aadvark

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[Sallutations Omitted]

[Omit]

P.S.: Although, and while it is true that..., I believe that there needs to be some Infinitesimal Government, to Micro-Manage People on some Level..., Statist Governments almost always decline to Socialist States. Humans are naturally Social Creatures, and as such we associate ourselves into Groups, that when taken together, conglomerate into Civilizations. However too much Governmental Intervention on every faucet of Individual and Free Market affairs only impedes on the Individuals Ability to Live His Life on His own Liberty and Pursuit of His own Happiness.

P.S.2: Eye95... Please help me here! Maybe you could elaborate on my initial first P.S. Comment above?
 
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eye95

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confedneck said:
And I politely would like to inform you that your suggestion means squat to me.

Telling someone to get the hell away from you is HARDLY confrontational. And as for the guy in the target store, he should have knocked that moron on his ass after he grabbed for his gun.
Click to expand...

And I will politely inform you that I did not expect you to take my suggestion. As I have said numerous times before, I rarely expect to change the mind of the person to whom I post. The goal is to reach others who read both points of view.

Rationality is how we change hearts and minds. Rashness and smart-aleckiness are how we get rah-rahs from folks who already agree with us.

Moving on.
 
eye95

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aadvark said:
P.S.: Although, and while it is true that..., I believe that there needs to be some Infinitesimal Government, to Micro-Manage People on some Level..., Statist Governments almost always decline to Socialist States. Humans are naturally Social Creatures, and as such we associate ourselves into Groups, that when taken together, conglomerate into Civilizations. However too much Governmental Intervention on every faucet of Individual and Free Market affairs only impedes on the Individuals Ability to Live His Life on His own Liberty and Pursuit of His own Happiness.

P.S.2: Eye95... Please help me here! Maybe you could elaborate on my initial first P.S. Comment above?
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You said it pretty well. Government is necessary. Unfortunately, its very existence causes its growth, mainly because it undevolves power (there is no antonym for devolve!) from State and local governments. We need folks in Congress who will push power, spending, programs, and taxation down closer to the people, where we, the people, can exercise more power.

It is easier to change local and State governments than the federal government. And, if you don't like the amount of control a State or local government is exercising, you can always vote with your feet. I suspect that is what the Founders were after. Unfortunately, career politicians hoovered all that local power right into Washington. There is no place to which you can vote with your feet.
 
rodbender

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aadvark said:
rodbender:

Are you accusing me of being a Statist?

I am not a Statist, nor a Police Officer!

aadvark

P.S.: Although, and while it is true that..., I believe that there needs to be some Infinitesimal Government, to Micro-Manage People on some Level..., Statist Governments almost always decline to Socialist States. Humans are naturally Social Creatures, and as such we associate ourselves into Groups, that when taken together, conglomerate into Civilizations. However too much Governmental Intervention on every faucet of Individual and Free Market affairs only impedes on the Individuals Ability to Live His Life on His own Liberty and Pursuit of His own Happiness.

P.S.2: Eye95... Please help me here! Maybe you could elaborate on my initial first P.S. Comment above?
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I can not and will not name names, nor will I quote posts, but you are not one of whom I speak.

BTW, I did not say anything about anybody being a police OFFICER.

Please don't ass-u-me that I am talking of you simply because I posted directly after you. I think reading all the other posts before you would clarify of whom I speak.
 
confedneck

confedneck

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eye95 said:
And I will politely inform you that I did not expect you to take my suggestion. As I have said numerous times before, I rarely expect to change the mind of the person to whom I post. The goal is to reach others who read both points of view.

Rationality is how we change hearts and minds. Rashness and smart-aleckiness are how we get rah-rahs from folks who already agree with us.

Moving on.
Click to expand...


Reading both points of view and making ones own decision is called common sense. Rather it seems you would have everyone follow your footsteps.

Rationality is not how you change hearts and minds. You need emotion to change hearts and minds, as most people who are confrontational do not comprehend normal, level headed thinking, or they would not be causing a scene over something they don't understand.

Moving on.
 
Deanimator

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since9 said:
I would comply. If you feel your rights have been violated in any manner, you're free to research into how and why, and file a complaint.

You're also free to say something like, "Good afternoon, officer. I'm engaged in the lawful carry of a firearm, and SCOTUS has ruled this action to be insufficient to meet RAS requirements. Is there something else you would like to discuss with me today? If not, I would like to go about my business without further interaction with either you or anyone else from your department."

Of course the latter is a bit uppity. I suppose the litmus test here is, "Would you say something equally standoffish to your average citizen?"
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"Am I free to leave, Officer?" If yes, go about your business.
If "no", "Then Officer, this is now a custodial interrogation and I have nothing further to say without benefit of counsel." Say NOTHING else without your attorney present. Any threats resulting therefrom are impotent and put the LEOs themselves in far greater legal jeopardy than you.

Other than jurisdiction specific notification and identification requirements, you're under no obligation to say more than that, nor do they deserve more, especially if they're legally in the wrong.

I routinely say "standoffish" things to my "fellow citizens". I'd probably do it less often if fewer of them were jackasses.
 
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aadvark

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rodbendor:

Per your advice, I have read the other Posts located throughout this Thread.

I have an idea of who you speak of, and it is not, as you admitted, me.

Therefore I apologize for the inappropiate comment concerning my allegations as to the Validity of your comments in your previous aforesiad mentioned Post, and I will promptly Delete them.

Please accept this apology, and I admit that I may have made an 'Ass' of myself by accusing you without any proof.

aadvark

P.S.: As you readily indicated..., the reason I assumed the Post concerned me was because it was immediately Posted directly after my own. At first Impression..., I thought the comment, therefore, when you assume the rational in the previous sentence, was directed towards myself. Again, my Judgement was off, and I accordingly apologize.
 
rodbender

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aadvark said:
rodbendor:

Per your advice, I have read the other Posts located throughout this Thread.

I have an idea of who you speak of, and it is not, as you admitted, me.

Therefore I apologize for the inappropiate comment concerning my allegations as to the Validity of your comments in your previous aforesiad mentioned Post, and I will promptly Delete them.

Please accept this apology, and I admit that I may have made an 'Ass' of myself by accusing you without any proof.

aadvark

P.S.: As you readily indicated..., the reason I assumed the Post concerned me was because it was immediately Posted directly after my own. At first Impression..., I thought the comment, therefore, when you assume the rational in the previous sentence, was directed towards myself. Again, my Judgement was off, and I accordingly apologize.
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An apology is not necessary in the least. I simply wanted you to know that I was not refering to you. Apology is accepted, but again I say, not required. I, too, have made this mistake, but caught it before I posted.
 
C

Citizen

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You know, its ironic. Dipstick hasn't been back, or hasn't posted anyway. And, here we are, arguing amongst ourselves over something he started.
 
C

Citizen

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rodbender said:
SNIP Hmmmm....troll?
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Not in the classic sense. Meaning I don't think he did it just to start an argument.

I recall his incredibly arrogant thread about the "correct" holster for OC. He at least replied to the criticisms he received. In a general sort of way. Just called everybody too stupid to learn or something.

I did notice that here, and on another post in a different thread, that he stayed silent when called out on being incorrect on the law. No "oops, I'm sorry" or anything of that sort.
 
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C

Citizen

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since9 said:
You're joking, right? <about telling someone to get the hell away from you>
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on who walked up to who, strictly speaking.

Nonetheless, lets not forget that sometimes a verbally forceful response is the correct solution.

For myself, I might try something less forceful at least once, as I step away.
 
eye95

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since9 was taking exception to the claim that telling someone to get the hell away is non-confrontational, not that it is or is not correct.
 
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