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Thread: Open Carry confronted with Knife - Washoe County Sherriff's do the right thing

  1. #1
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    Open Carry confronted with Knife - Washoe County Sherriff's do the right thing

    I was open carrying in Sun Valley when I was confronted by a drunk tweeker with a knife and several druggy friends. As a long time resident of the Reno/Sparks area I was utterly shocked to see such a character in Sun Valley But I was able to put my self between the freak and my family. We tried to move away, 30 feet down the road and crossed the street.... He actually came pretty close several times, I nearly shot him several times, but I was able to get him to back down long enough to call the cops.

    Tweek boy and friends thought for sure I was going to jail since OF COURSE you can't just carry a gun around like that. They kept jeering my wife that I was going to jail.

    He tried to make the knife disappear before the cops arrived. They hooked everybody up, as I expected, and put us in cars, got everyone's story. They found the knife, booked my new found tweeker friend on assault and battery with a deadly weapon (a complete shock to him since, after all, I had a gun).

    I expected to lose my gun, maybe spend the night at Parr - but the Washoe County Sherriff's handed me my bullets for my revolver, told me to put them in my pocket, and told me to go ahead and conceal my weapon so as not to provoke the tweekers further, and sent me on my way.

    Lessons to be taken:

    1 - Ignorance of the masses can sometimes play in your favor.
    2 - washoe County Sherriff's are on the ball - a couple of them in particular (I only know officer Diaz's name) seemed to think I carried very responsibly and fully within my rights.
    3 - Next time I carry my revolver I am bringing speed loaders - who knows what friends the bad guys might have
    4 - Never pull a knife on somebody who has he was a gun. I wonder if dude knows how lucky he was to merely be facing assault with a deadly weapon and some other charges? With my family to protect - I Damn near shot him... very, VERY, CLOSE.
    Last edited by Washoe County Blues; 09-14-2010 at 02:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I'm glad your family is safe. That's what it's all about. You didn't say if you did or not, but I'll assume that you drew down on them? If someone came up and stuck a knife in my face, the least of what they would get is the business end of my .45 staring them down. Displaying a deadly weapon such as a knife in a threatening manner is a good way to get shot, real quick. Like you said, they're lucky the police came to pick them up instead of the coroner.
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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    He is lucky (the tweaker) to be alive. If it were me, he would have likely been shot. An average Human can can close 15 feet in seconds..
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
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    First I'll say I am glad you and your family are safe. Secondly, where were you when this happened? Scum Valley blvd? 7th street near the skate park? The public pool area? Just curious on that part

    Washoe County has done a decent job of following the law and policing themselves. Although I disagree with the Sherriff handing back the gun and advising you to conceal it... overall it was done correctly. Did you get any business cards or maybe a report number? I would very much like to forward my compliments to Mike Hailey through a couple deputies I know. You mention Diaz... any other names come to mind?

    Lastly, next time you OC, carry a recording device. Keep it on. Best buy is just down the street or get one from amazon. I know it's an added expense but you never know if your going to run into WCSD or someone from NHP or RPD. WCSD does a good job but NHP and RPD are hit and miss.
    Last edited by nomidlname; 09-14-2010 at 11:50 AM.

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    It sounds to me like you handled the situation perfectly. You had the means to use deadly force but restrained that force because it would appear that you had an alternative to using it. Had you or your family been cornered with no escape route. things could have ended much differently.

    Good for you. what I recommend next is alert your local news media. People need to know that we are the good guys.

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    You should of Shot those 'Tweekers'.
    If it were me..., they would have been Dead.

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    You defended your family, got some bad people off the streets and went home. The overall strategy was sound.

    For me, the core question becomes: How close did they come?

    A single person can close the gap and we don't know what the other guys were carrying. In the heat (heart rate up, adrenaline creating tunnel vision) of the moment, being able to drop one person, let alone multiple assailants is going to be tough.

    The saying is within 7 yards, 1.5s to clear the distance, against a guy with a knife - expect to be cut.

    And that 1.5s isn't too much time to reload.

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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Always remember "The 21 foot rule"

    http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

    21 foot rule would have had your "tweeker" being put in a body bag if he'd advanced on me !!!!
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

    21 foot rule would have had your "tweeker" being put in a body bag if he'd advanced on me !!!!
    I agree.

    The equation now gets more complex: You have your family there, and the loss of them is now greater than your own life. There are multiple suspects. You're armed with a revolver w/o a speed loader.

    21' is NOT enough IMO. But I don't know what the situation is and want to know "how close did they come" and "how close is close enough?"

    Assume 3 guys and 3 shots to drop the guy (2 CoM and 1 HS) with the knife - what then? Hopefully you have time and the ability to reload.

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    Wow! Really glad you & the family are ok! But, I have to say, I would have probably killed that tweaker!! I carry a G23 with 10 rnds and a reload of 15; I would have been somewhere near the middle of that 2nd mag REAL quick. I have a simple code, threaten my family & die.
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    The whole reason I carry is to prevent bad guys with knives (or any other deadly weapon) from threatening me or my family from within that 21 foot danger zone. If I see a serious threat coming that close, I'm going to shoot.

    It sounds to me that you and your family are very lucky. If this "tweaker" (I really don't know what that means) was waiving a knife and threatening you from within 21 feet, he could have gotten to you with the knife before you could have pulled the trigger. Then, he would arguably have your gun and could start shooting your family. In this case that didn't happen. But it was only because of him. In other words, he was in control of the situation. Not you.

    That should scare the living daylights out of you. It's real serious. I think the bottom line here is there is no kinder gentler way to use your gun in close quarters. You pull it out, you shoot it. Period.

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    VegasGeorge...a 'tweaker' is a meth addict who's going through the early stages of withdrawl. He is usually very jittery and irrational. The ONLY thing on his mind is getting more meth!
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    I appreciate the feedback. I have already decided I let him too close. I know we were very lucky... But I also know there were a number of ways to stop him without shooting. The millions of calculations being made without even thinking are impossible to relay in this setting...

    In my defense - a few things to consider:
    #1 - in my mind the guys milling around behind him moving in and out of vehicles already had guns on me - better to diffuse and walk away - keeping tweeker's body between me and them - then to start a shoot-out I couldn't win. I was in an open carry, and never fully drew my weapon - if it came out - I would have fired would have had to engage a whole other set of tactical problems.

    #2 - I am a martial artist - not a great one, not a bad ass - but I have successfully fought against knives twice in my life - while completely unarmed and outnumbered. The way he was holding the knife - and other details told me - I was ready and capable to disarm him. The philosophy I live by is that any weapon is only - trying to avoid the word extension here... a part of your hands, feet, etc. If I had not lived the life I have I am sure I woulda shot him. Not a bad ass - but I have experience.

    #3 - this is my neighborhood. At least for the time being. I would have the threat of drive by's and retaliation -even more so than I do now. I would rather have my enemies underestimate me in any given situation so when I do something offensive it will be a complete shock. By the grace of God, I think it was the perfect balance. I showed the ability to use force they could understand without giving them something they would HAVE to avenge. I have also started carrying a real nice Gerber as well. They now know I carry a gun and may think I am afraid to use it. They don't realize what it has taken to bring me down in the past - how pissed I am about the whole thing - how much more likely I am to take a piece of the next person that f's with me.

    BTW - The ass't DA dropped the assault with deadly weapon due to the fact that I had a gun - and he only had a knife. So my gun rendered his knife no longer deadly or a threat to my family. If I woulda shot him - I am sure the same attorney woulda pushed for unnecessary use of force.

    He goes to the Reno justice court next week for kicking out a cruiser window at the time of his arrest (I am assured he will face time for this).
    GOOD TIMES!!!! Next time - I am more likely to shoot just because I know the flippin DA will let them off! I have also been carrying an 11 mag .40 +1 with two 11 rnd mag spares.

    Cheeze! Reading all this makes me very frustrated. (Thanks)
    Last edited by Washoe County Blues; 10-27-2010 at 06:09 PM. Reason: I am too damn long winded

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    Thanks for the extra info. Again, best thing that happened is that you & the family are ok! I especially like that you've applied what you learned in this experience.
    I think it was Col Cooper who came up with: Rule 1. Have a gun. Rule 2. Have enough gun!

    We had a lady CCer who got jumped and she was able to empty her J frame S&W through her purse. When the cops asked her why she shot the scum 5 times, she replied "The gun when 'click' the 6th time I pulled the trigger!" haahahahaha
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    Great article btw - definately worth the read. and the "click" story is just awesome

  16. #16
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    My $0.02 only you know the situation and needed calculated reaction. You went home with the family. You win. I find it interesting you did not mentioned the armed friends in the first post. Were they arrested also? I would find it hard to believe they were legal gun owners. The DA saying your lethal weapon trumps his, what the @#$% is that all about? I wonder if he had a 22 cal and you had a 44mag if the larger caliber would have trumped the smaller lethal weapon.

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    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    so the DA up there is a moron, hes taking charges against this man for breaking a police car window out but wont tack on assault charges as well? right....cause when DA's have someone by the balls they don't tack on all sort of other crap to get a plead bargain so they can get paid and put another person into the system if they aren't already. a gun does trump a knife however if someone comes at me with a knife that is the time my mind flips into I am in immediate danger of life and limb and use of deadly force is authorized.

    By this notion people can threaten LEO with a knife and not catch a charge of assault with a deadly weapon because they only had a knife and the LEO had a gun. <eyeroll>
    Last edited by Remmy; 09-24-2010 at 02:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
    By this notion people can threaten LEO with a knife and not catch a charge of assault with a deadly weapon because they only had a knife and the LEO had a gun. <eyeroll>

    This leads me to believe that you mistakenly believe the police to be held to the same standard we are. If we shoot someone in self defense we go straight to criminal court, there is no inquest first.

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    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    Reset assure i do not believe police are held to the same standard as we are, we as citizens are not given a pass. It just really chaps my A$$ to hear such things from a DA. God help any of us if we ever have to defend our lives or the lives of our family from a similar assault.

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    For all of those posters who are eager to shoot the tweeker and take his life I assume you are young and have never been in a fight before. You have absolutely no idea how immature you sound or how it would make you look if anything did happen and your words are out here on the internet to be used against you if you ever do get in a situation. You might want to step back and grow up a little or at least be a little more circumspect in your posts. You do not want somebody's blood or life on your hands or on your conscience unless there is absolutely no other reasonable way out of the situation. I hope you never have to find out. The OP did exactly what he had to do, he was there we weren't so don't be telling him what he should have done, you are only second guessing and that looks stupid.

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    Regular Member Sietch Woolsey's Avatar
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    Think Carefully

    Quote Originally Posted by Washoe County Blues
    He goes to the Reno justice court next week for kicking out a cruiser window at the time of his arrest (I am assured he will face time for this).
    GOOD TIMES!!!! Next time - I am more likely to shoot just because I know the flippin DA will let them off! I have also been carrying an 11 mag .40 +1 with two 11 rnd mag spares.

    Cheeze! Reading all this makes me wanna go dwn the street to where he is and egg him on to try it again!!!
    NO. This is what will land you in trouble. If you are ever involved in a shooting, bet on the investigating authority finding this. And if you face charges, you'd better believe this WILL be allowed into evidence, and a prosecutor WILL use it against you. This is a prosecutor's dream.

    Good job protecting yourself and yours. But this stuff can and will ruin you. Think carefully.

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    I have to agree with Old Grump. I served a 15 month combat tour in Iraq, even out there it is never cut and dry. I have been involved in my share of fire fights, that does not mean that I am a "Bad Ass". Every situation is different. If you are assaulted you have milliseconds to asses the situation and react in the most intelligent manner. Shooting immediately, is not always the best solution.

    As far as the OP goes, congratulations, a gun is an escalator, you pull it and all notions of sensibility go out the window. You did everything properly.

  23. #23
    28kfps
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    I would still like to hear from Washoe County Blues why the first post did not say anything about the others with guns and if they were also arrested or detained. I would find it hard to believe if the knife holder’s friends were legal gun owners.

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    similar experience with RPD, except I was ccw'ing. the knife guy was released in a week acting crazy in downtown Rno, oddly enough someone was stabbed for no reason in the exact same spot one summer later.
    I believe its the same guy but I am not going to press it-why do they let these braindead zombies out so quickly?
    Last edited by chrsjhnsn; 09-26-2010 at 12:29 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    For all of those posters who are eager to shoot the tweeker and take his life I assume you are young and have never been in a fight before. You have absolutely no idea how immature you sound or how it would make you look if anything did happen and your words are out here on the internet to be used against you if you ever do get in a situation. You might want to step back and grow up a little or at least be a little more circumspect in your posts. You do not want somebody's blood or life on your hands or on your conscience unless there is absolutely no other reasonable way out of the situation. I hope you never have to find out. The OP did exactly what he had to do, he was there we weren't so don't be telling him what he should have done, you are only second guessing and that looks stupid.
    At 45 yrs old, I'm definitely not 'young!' You're right, I've never (THANK GOD!!) been in a fight. However, I've thought & prayed a lot about this kind of situation. My conscience will be totally clear if I've acted in reasonable fear in the protection of myself or loved ones. The thought of helplessly seeing harm come to any of them literally makes me sick, I have a hard time even typing that down here. I love them so much that I'd use my last breath to save them. No, I don't want to be 'circumspect.' I want all to know that my thinking is clear of doubts; that my actions are calculated to produce the most good for 'my' side. Yes, I will probably experience all the traumatic effects of causing grave harm to another; but weighed against how I would feel if I couldn't protect a loved one, it's a no-brainer! Every time I holster that gun, I pray I won't have to use it, but I will if I have to.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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