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Thread: Silly liberals

  1. #1
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Silly liberals

    So today I decided to have lunch with my family at a restaurant near where I was working. I wasn't sure what was nearby so I used the "around me" iPhone app. I found a place called "the Antique Sandwich Co." I thought it sounded good and wanted to try it out. I went inside and asked if I was to seat myself or not and the girl behind the counter said that I could pick a seat anywhere but to order at the counter. So I took a seat and waited a few minutes for my wife to arrive. When she got there I went out to help her with the kids and then we ordered and sat down. While eating for our food we see two cops enter and seem as though they were walking over to me! I was right. The cop asked if I was armed and I replied with a yes. He asked if i had a CPL, and i said yes. He then asked if it may have come out of concealment, to which I replied that I was OC. So he has me walk with him outside and while we were walking he made a point to tell me that he completely supports what I was doing by OC. We got outside and went through what seems to be the usual questions and I did inform him that having a CPL does NOT require you to conceal but that it merely gives you that option. I did allow him to disarm me (I figure the best time to be without a gun is when three cops are standing next to you). He was vaguely familiar with OCDO and said he's been meaning to get on here to learn more (apparently Tacoma Police hasn't trained that well on this topic). He said that he knew when he got the call that it would be nothing really because dispatch told him that I was there with my wife and kids. One of the officers went in to talk to the owner and see if they wanted me to leave or if it was ok to just cover up. I was able to cover up and go eat my lunch. The cop told me that it's just a liberal business. Afterward I went back to the job and told my brother about it and he said that that's just about the most liberal place in Tacoma. I guess they have open mic poetry night and everything. I guess I'll have to drop a pamphlet by there next time I'm by the zoo. Not too bad an outcome for the most liberal place to eat in Tacoma.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  2. #2
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    The best time to be disarmed is ....... NEVER. They DO NOT have the right to disarm you absent RAS. Also if a business has a problem with me OC, I would much rather just leave than do business with them. Especially if they send the cops instead of just asking me themself.

    Edit: Also, "Are you detaining me or am I free to go about my business?" would have been a good response to him asking you outside.
    Last edited by Jayd1981; 09-14-2010 at 06:58 PM.

  3. #3
    69Charger
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    You did what yo had to and so did the LEOs. They are coming around.
    Now if we can just get Joe public on the same page, ALL will be good.
    Glad it went over the way it did.
    Dave

  4. #4
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
    You did what yo had to and so did the LEOs. They are coming around.
    Now if we can just get Joe public on the same page, ALL will be good.
    Glad it went over the way it did.
    Dave
    SAY WHAT???? WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! They did NOT do what they had to. What is with you guys lately, just bending over for this violation of your rights? SACK-UP and quit taking this from them!

  5. #5
    Regular Member ARADCOM's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    SAY WHAT???? WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! They did NOT do what they had to. What is with you guys lately, just bending over for this violation of your rights? SACK-UP and quit taking this from them!
    I have to agree with SpyderTattoo on this. Aside from any issues with the way the police handled this the restaurant was way out of line.

    They seated you, took your food order, and then called the cops on you! No way would I have stuck around or paid for my order. If they are that RUDE, no way am I going to be nice about it.

    I don't know how old your kids are but I hope they're not old enough to learn a bad lesson from this encounter.

  6. #6
    69Charger
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    Well I guess I don't "sack up" as much as others. LOL
    US AGAINST THEM. LOL
    Dave

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    the important question I have is did you place this restaurant here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ton+businesses

    AND here: http://www.friendorfoe.us/

    ????
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  8. #8
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Dave, on this and other recent topics, it has begun to bother me how much your comments of being subservient to LEOs going beyond the scope of their legal realm to disarm/detain/inconvenience people who are doing nothing wrong.

    You 'laugh it off' when those of us who do stand up for our rights call you on it. Do you think we're all conspiracy-theorists wearing around aluminum foil hats? I just want law enforcement do enforce laws. I was not aware that they were allowed and encouraged to go beyond enforcing laws and go to enforcing their own opinions. That's not what my tax dollars pay for, nor is what could be considered reasonable in a country and state where there is a presumption of freedom.

  10. #10
    69Charger
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    We seem to be on the same page Tom.
    A lot of pages here.
    Dave

  11. #11
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.
    Mark Fulghum is one of the principle spokespersons for the TPD....He may be a contact. I rented him a house for a year or so while he was having his built....good guy, don't know what he might say, but he would likely have the inside skinny.

    We go to the sandwich factory occasionally, liberal would be a good discription, environmental tree huggers would be another
    Last edited by jt59; 09-14-2010 at 08:27 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    I can understand not wanting to be confrontational, however you are giving up your rights by doing anything they say. Yes police are there to protect the public as a whole; however they are not there to violate someoneís rights that are doing nothing wrong. Sure you can try being friendly and change their minds one by one and let them know youíre not a threat by giving up your 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. However I find it better to show them the error of their ways.

    It is not easy to go against their authority, but if they are wrong then I believe itís our duty as citizens and their employers to correct them. That can involve simply saying I do not consent to being disarmed or being searched. Or refuse their illegal demands (lock your vehicle in your car if you want to stay in this park as was my case). There are avenues for us to use to show them their actions are not only wrong but illegal. Why not take the opportunity to make a stand for yours and everyone elseís rights? I guess standing up for yourself can be too much of an inconvenience sometime, I only hope there are others that are willing to bear the burden then.

  13. #13
    69Charger
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    Well we all have our 1st amendment right to voice our opinion.
    I take my second amendment rights seriously.
    My views may not live up to the expectations some have here, but such is life.
    I like a little humor. That way I don't have to look all grumpy and mad at the world all the time.
    Dave

  14. #14
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Tom you did well and you did what was best for you in the situation presented.

    Confrontation is not the only way to effect change.

    Sack Up lol now there is some big ego's at work .

    69Charger well said.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.

  16. #16
    Regular Member MAndrew's Avatar
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    Enviro tree huggers and sandwich shops don't mix well for me. All it took was one caterpillar on the lettuce in my sandwich to make me a believer in pesticides.

    I would agree with that a LEO being buddy-buddy is usually just a ploy in a situation like that. Besides, if I'm eating then asking me to put my food down is asking a lot. Hmm, next time I go shooting I'm going to bring a sandwich to practice shooting and eating at the same time.

  17. #17
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    To each their own. I prefer to be non-confrontational. I had a MWAG call on me when I first arrived in Everett and before I got my CPL. Thankfully the encounter went more along the lines of if I had any questions for them once they figured out they were wasting their time talking to a peaceful OCer. Since it was Everett and South Everett at that, I figured it was in my best interests to answer their questions (the ones they did ask me) and let them know that I was a frequent OCer. Turns out that doing so worked to my advantage a week later when confronting a severe nut case and having the store call it in -- no one was dispatched. My own experience leads me to conclude that it is at your own discretion. Cops are people too -- meaning they make mistakes, assume authority, and want to be put at ease when confronting someone with a weapon. Some may think that the OP let the police walk all over his rights, but being respectful and cooperative within limits can work to your advantage. Just my .02

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Do not go outside!

    I also agree with SpyderTattoo! Enough with the unlawful contact. You were on private property and no where in your story did you mention the property owner asking you to leave. You were exercising a "fundamental" constitutional right. (McDonald v. Chicago). The police can NOT act as the party to ask you to leave. (I believe NavyLT is more versed on the dual party representation issue). If the property owner never asked you to leave then the police can do NOTHING!

    I also would of politely asked for my money back and left. For a liberal establishment, the fact that they let you stay and take your money is filled with GREED! (What they claim to be against!)


    Quote Originally Posted by ARADCOM View Post
    I have to agree with SpyderTattoo on this. Aside from any issues with the way the police handled this the restaurant was way out of line.

    They seated you, took your food order, and then called the cops on you! No way would I have stuck around or paid for my order. If they are that RUDE, no way am I going to be nice about it.

    I don't know how old your kids are but I hope they're not old enough to learn a bad lesson from this encounter.
    Quote Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
    Well I guess I don't "sack up" as much as others. LOL
    US AGAINST THEM. LOL
    Dave
    You said it, Dave.

    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    Well the thing is, since we had to order at the counter, we also had to pay there. I stayed because I didn't feel like leaving my money as a donation. I know the cops didn't have the right to take my gun and that is why I said I "LET" them. I figure that there's no way I can be perceived as a threat if I most graciously let them disarm me. I don't think it will be long before they realize on their own that we're not a threat and they won't even think about it. I would much rather they figure it out willingly than being forced through a lawsuit that could actually hinder our cause. Remember that when the cops are around they ARE there to protect us. So again I say the best time to be disarmed is when three nice cops are standing next to you. I'm not going to give them an excuse to rough me up, or God forbid, something worse. On a side note, they were BSing with me about guns and were teasing me about how dusty mine was as I do work in construction. And I almost forgot, they DID NOT unload my gun before giving it back to me. They really are coming around to our side guys.
    No they are not on your side. They are on the side of bad policy, very bad department policy. They are not there to protect us! The Supreme Court has said over and over they are not there to protect you.

    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    Dave, on this and other recent topics, it has begun to bother me how much your comments of being subservient to LEOs going beyond the scope of their legal realm to disarm/detain/inconvenience people who are doing nothing wrong.

    You 'laugh it off' when those of us who do stand up for our rights call you on it. Do you think we're all conspiracy-theorists wearing around aluminum foil hats? I just want law enforcement do enforce laws. I was not aware that they were allowed and encouraged to go beyond enforcing laws and go to enforcing their own opinions. That's not what my tax dollars pay for, nor is what could be considered reasonable in a country and state where there is a presumption of freedom.
    Dave, you might want to familarize yourself with the 4th and 5th amendments. They are as important as the 1st and 2nd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.
    Exactly! Every thing you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you in a court of law. Do you see that it will not be used for you?!!!
    Live Free or Die!

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    Question

    We are all entitled to our opinion, and I appreciate this and value the input of those I may not completely agree with. With this in mind, I guess I can see the viewpoint of "cooperation" where one is inconvenienced for a few minutes, maybe you meet a pair of handcuffs for a short while (like the Taco Bell incident in Vancouver), they take your gun away and run the serial number, you get made an 'example of' in front of dozens of other people, etc... but you walk away feeling that you did some good in 'teaching' the cops about OC.

    But what about those of us who would like to go about our daily business WITHOUT having to deal with this type of situation? Is there a way that we can help the police differentiate between those of us who would like to be left alone versus those of us who are willing to be detained for a completely legal activity?

  20. #20
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    The Cops BSing with you is a standard ploy to get you to let down your guard and talk to them. Always always always remember they are your best friend until you incriminate your self by some random unthought out statement and the cuffs will come out and jump onto your wrists before you even know what you did. Been there done that, talk to Cops at your own risk. Just my .02 worth.
    Don't worry, there will NEVER be anything to incriminate myself about.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Charger View Post
    That way I don't have to look all grumpy and mad at the world all the time.
    Dave
    You say "grumpy and mad"

    I say beligerent and intentional trampling of rights and deprivation of rights under the color of law.

    I guess we're all entitled to our euphemisms, huh?

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    Don't worry, there will NEVER be anything to incriminate myself about.
    tom.... that is untrue. There are many scenarios (allthough rare) that could lead you to incriminate yourself. You handled yourself very well. Hopefully, we will all learn from this!
    Live Free or Die!

  23. #23
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayd1981 View Post
    I can understand not wanting to be confrontational, however you are giving up your rights by doing anything they say. Yes police are there to protect the public as a whole; however they are not there to violate someone’s rights that are doing nothing wrong. Sure you can try being friendly and change their minds one by one and let them know you’re not a threat by giving up your 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. However I find it better to show them the error of their ways.

    It is not easy to go against their authority, but if they are wrong then I believe it’s our duty as citizens and their employers to correct them. That can involve simply saying I do not consent to being disarmed or being searched. Or refuse their illegal demands (lock your vehicle in your car if you want to stay in this park as was my case). There are avenues for us to use to show them their actions are not only wrong but illegal. Why not take the opportunity to make a stand for yours and everyone else’s rights? I guess standing up for yourself can be too much of an inconvenience sometime, I only hope there are others that are willing to bear the burden then.
    I do and will stand up for myself. but it is better to be alive and not bruised so you can comfortably make a complaint later than to get your butt kicked and be forced to lawer up. Especially since after lunch my wife was on her way to see the Bankruptcy Lawer! Obviously I can not at this moment afford a lawsuit against the TPD. They really did seem eager to learn also and said he's going to try and learn more on the forum, so try not to make them enemies and chhose your words carefully. I really did have to teach him that a CPL does NOT mean that you have to CC.

    If anyone wants to give me money to pay a lawer for future encounters I guess I'm OK with being confrontational. Until then, put your money where your mouth is.
    Last edited by tombrewster421; 09-14-2010 at 10:09 PM.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  24. #24
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    tom.... that is untrue. There are many scenarios (allthough rare) that could lead you to incriminate yourself. You handled yourself very well. Hopefully, we will all learn from this!
    In order to incriminate myself wouldn't that imply that I have done something Criminal. Which I have not!
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    ... just about the most liberal place in Tacoma. I guess they have open mic poetry night and everything. I guess I'll have to drop a pamphlet by there next time I'm by the zoo. Not too bad an outcome for the most liberal place to eat in Tacoma.
    Forget the pamphlets, you HAVE to compose a "ode to OC" for open mic poetry night!!!!

    (... and then when they freak out, politely ask them how they feel about free speech, with a slight smirk of course).

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