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Thread: Carrying In Church

  1. #1
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Question Carrying In Church

    All sheep need shepherds because they are defenseless animals. Just consider me, and others like me, as Shepherds. We are there to protect ourselves and in turn, under some circumstances, to protect others in the process. I would NOT open carry in Church, as it might cause people to be distracted from the purpose of being there (the worship of God), and I do my best to never distract others in church. However, I have NO issue with carrying concealed in a church.. Nobody knows, (IF nobody knows but me and God, then I do not believe it is disrespectful) and I'm better protected, and others might benefit one day from me being there.. Just consider me a "fire extinguisher", just waiting in the wings, for an opportunity that I hope NEVER comes.

    I'd like to be able to take credit for the above but somone else wrote it in another forum. I did correct spelling and tense though.

    So, what is everyone's point of view on carrying in church?
    Last edited by neuroblades; 09-16-2010 at 01:37 AM. Reason: grammar correction
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    Nothing wrong with CCing in church. There was a time when it was not necessary because churches were considered "off limits" by friends and foes a like when it came to criminal acts and such. That time may come again, but now is not that time. Better to air on the side of caution.

    I am %100 against OCing in church unless your church is used to and supports that sort of thing. I'm against it for the same reason I'm against ******** from both parties (however in my experience, the local republican groups are more guilty of this than the other) trying to include their little political events and agenda in the church announcements and even during the service.

    People come to church to focus on and pay homage to their creator for just one hour out of their week. Anything apart from that has no buisness inside a church service. There are times and places for standing up for the 2nd amendment.........church is not one of them. CCing accomplishes the defense aspect but allows for people to focus on what really matters at church. Now before someone talks about the need to prevent a crime even at church......no guy that is intent on blowing away a church full of people is going to be stopped by seeing your gun (if even does see it). A liquor store or gas station is an entirely different story with a different motive. So, to my mind, it makes more sense in....this particular scenario at church... to CC anyway as crime at church is unlikely to be prevented except by shooting said psycho (which CC takes care of).

    But if it's common in your church (would be curious to see that congregation) , I suppose it doesn't matter as it won't be as distracting.
    Last edited by trooper46; 09-15-2010 at 02:41 PM.

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    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    Why should a person waive their Rights just because they are in a church? Do the "feelings" of the sheep mean any more just because you are in a church? In the era of the Founding it would have been un-heard of to leave your weapon at home just because you were going to church, why should it be acceptable today? Also during this time it was considered to be in poor form to hide your weapon, what makes it in better form today to hide it? Are we no longer gentlemen? Are we no better than common criminals forced to hide our guns?
    Last edited by Thos.Jefferson; 09-16-2010 at 03:32 AM. Reason: spelling/punctuation
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    For me it's a matter of personal preference. I haven't yet OCd in a church, mainly due to a respect issue. It's different for me because everyone there is a part of the church, where in stores they are just customers. However, I would only lend that respect so far as to CC, not stop carrying altogether.

    I recently spoke with the pastor at the church I attend when I am at college about carrying. I never specifically said OC or CC when I asked if they allowed it, and he said that they "really don't like it in case somebody sees it." Obviously, he assumed I was speaking about CC, not OC. I was asking for the purposes of OC, and would not have asked about CC. As he did not specifically say they do not allow it, I will CC when I get my permit here in NC.

    However, I do eat with people after church fairly often, and in those cases, I OC. I have had questions asked, and never in a negative way.

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    It's definitely a respect issue. I have plenty of rights I can exercise within a church--doesn't mean I will. I could wear a hat into a church, step up on my political soapbox, wear my hair or clothes a certain way, but I won't.

    TJ--you wanna start a church in which OC is the norm, sign me up!

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Good To See...

    Well, when I posted this nuggent before I headed into work, I wasn't sure what to expect on the reply side of things but I have to say that I'm glad to see our "usuals" speaking up and speaking out on this topic.

    I knew that I had not read anything about this topic over here and I thought that it was about time to introduce it, get people thinking, get people chatting about it so we ALL have a common train of thought when we ARE asked what we think and where we do stand on it.

    For those of us looking for a very gun friendly environment, this might be our call:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...el-church-guns
    Last edited by neuroblades; 09-16-2010 at 02:25 AM.
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Exclamation Church Shooting

    (This is from my blog from March 2nd, 2010)

    This is not the first attack on places of worship, and it will not be the last.
    In fact, here is a list of just the most publicized attacks on churches...


    February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.

    March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himself, but survived, when his gun jams.

    July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.

    Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.

    May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.

    Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

    May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell, 25, was the shooter.

    Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend, later killed himself.

    April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.

    March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before taking his own life.

    July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

    Dec. 17, 2004 - Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine-hour standoff.

    Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

    June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.

    March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

    May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her and a woman trying to help her.

    Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.

    April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library, killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.


    These aren't even recent attacks! We ALL know that things aren't getting better in the world at large so you can just imagine how things are now!
    Read more: http://www.myspace.com/neuroblades/b...#ixzz0zfWihXGl
    Last edited by neuroblades; 09-16-2010 at 01:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I see that you have limited experiance in churches. I suggest you expand your horizons. Go to a black church service sometime, politics all the way in most, not many republicans there, either. Still there is very little OC. Regretably, there have been several murders in churches in recent years. I don't see any reason to provide criminals another GFZ voluntarily. If I go to church I OC. If that offends anyone, tough. If anyone in authority asks me to leave, I'll leave and I'll find another church. OC is not politics to me it is a life style choice and a choice to preserve and defend life. Life given us by our creator. Why would any church be against that?
    1. I never said anything about making church a GFZ , I said it is better to CC in church in order to be considerate of others............a concept that people in this country seem to have lost. CCing fulfills your defense need in church and allows for others to focus on worshiping God, not gun rights issues.

    2. You may not have the intent of being political. But like or not, openly carrying a firearm IS a political statement whether you intend it to be or not. You are making a statement about what you believe the 2nd amendment really means.

    3. The purpose of OC is to deter crime, self defense, and stand up for the 2nd amendment. Anything apart from those reasons means that you are wearing it simply for the sake of drawing attention and I believe there is a psychological condition that describes that. As I stated above, the church scenario, OC is not an effective deterrent given the profile of someone who would attack a church, CC allows for the best defense in this case.

    4. If you choose your gun over your church......then obviously you were going to church for the wrong reasons.
    If you claim to be carrying solely for defensive purposes, then CCing allows for that in church. However, if you are insistent in showing off your gun in church where there is little tactical benefit and is distracting people from God (unless it's common at that church), perhaps you may also be OCing for the wrong reasons as well.

    People goto church to get away from all this crap and focus on God....not politics and not mr. "look at me! I can carry a gun even here!" . CC allows for defense and is considerate of both of the church and attendees.

    I OC where it makes sense to do so.......it is neither tactical nor considerate to do so in church.
    Last edited by trooper46; 09-16-2010 at 03:27 AM.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trooper46 View Post
    I never said anything about making church a GFZ , I said it is better to CC in church in order to be considerate of others............a concept that people in this country seem to have lost. CCing fulfills your defense need in church and allows for others to focus on worshiping God, not gun rights issues.

    People go to church to get away from all this crap and focus on God....not politics and not Mr. "look at me! I can carry a gun even here!" . CC allows for defense and is considerate of both of the church and attendees.

    I OC where it makes sense to do so.......it is neither tactical nor considerate to do so in church.

    I totally agree and couldn't have said it better myself. Though I edited the quote for space constraints, Every point was legitimate and accurate.
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    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trooper46 View Post
    1. I never said anything about making church a GFZ , I said it is better to CC in church in order to be considerate of others............a concept that people in this country seem to have lost. CCing fulfills your defense need in church and allows for others to focus on worshiping God, not gun rights issues.

    2. You may not have the intent of being political. But like or not, openly carrying a firearm IS a political statement whether you intend it to be or not. You are making a statement about what you believe the 2nd amendment really means.

    3. The purpose of OC is to deter crime, self defense, and stand up for the 2nd amendment. Anything apart from those reasons means that you are wearing it simply for the sake of drawing attention and I believe there is a psychological condition that describes that. As I stated above, the church scenario, OC is not an effective deterrent given the profile of someone who would attack a church, CC allows for the best defense in this case.

    4. If you choose your gun over your church......then obviously you were going to church for the wrong reasons.
    If you claim to be carrying solely for defensive purposes, then CCing allows for that in church. However, if you are insistent in showing off your gun in church where there is little tactical benefit and is distracting people from God (unless it's common at that church), perhaps you may also be OCing for the wrong reasons as well.

    People goto church to get away from all this crap and focus on God....not politics and not mr. "look at me! I can carry a gun even here!" . CC allows for defense and is considerate of both of the church and attendees.

    I OC where it makes sense to do so.......it is neither tactical nor considerate to do so in church.
    It is this very attitude that has pushed being openly armed to the status of taboo. So sad
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    Regular Member Undertaker's Avatar
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    Great topic, surprising responses !!!

    Neuroblades, I believe that's my thunder your stealing re: fire extinguisher. I've also made the same analogy to a motorcycle helmet hoping you never need it but it's great protection if you ever do. Anyway, moving on to the topic, our pastor encourages CC. If our congregation knew how safe they were at church, they would all be there for both services on Sunday and Wednesday nite too. Heck, they may never go home.

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    I'm first and foremost a Christian and then a Patriot. In a perfect world they wouldn't contradict. Inside the walls of a church, the corporate worship of God is the highest priority and anything that inhibits that would not be profitable. I should be able to talk about whatever I want to at church but you don't see me cussing up a storm or coming in with purple hair, or coming half naked.

    It should always be legal to carry how you want in church, but in each individual church, they should be free to do as they please. If it's the church's mission to reach the lost, and if it's the case that OCing will deter people from the Gospel due to their own ignorant problems, then it would be an unfortunate situation.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    I'm first and foremost a Christian and then a Patriot. In a perfect world they wouldn't contradict. Inside the walls of a church, the corporate worship of God is the highest priority and anything that inhibits that would not be profitable. I should be able to talk about whatever I want to at church but you don't see me cussing up a storm or coming in with purple hair, or coming half naked.

    It should always be legal to carry how you want in church, but in each individual church, they should be free to do as they please. If it's the church's mission to reach the lost, and if it's the case that OCing will deter people from the Gospel due to their own ignorant problems, then it would be an unfortunate situation.
    This.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
    Neuroblades, I believe that's my thunder your stealing re: fire extinguisher. I've also made the same analogy to a motorcycle helmet hoping you never need it but it's great protection if you ever do. Anyway, moving on to the topic, our pastor encourages CC. If our congregation knew how safe they were at church, they would all be there for both services on Sunday and Wednesday nite too. Heck, they may never go home.
    Didn't intend to steal the thunder. *LOL* I found that written up on USA Carry's forum, I wish I had bookmarked the exact forum now. *LOL* But the way the guy had it written up was better than I could've done it. Granted, I modified the tense and corrected the spelling and grammar only.

    The idea though stands alone and is direct, to the point, and straight-shooting.

    I am rather surprised and saddened by some of the posts thus far but I think that the majority have the same POV on carrying in church and that's what matters. In the end, we're ALL on the same side though and that's what's important!

    As for the congregation never going home if they knew how safe they were. That's why the church is a Sanctuary.
    Last edited by neuroblades; 09-17-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    I'm first and foremost a Christian and then a Patriot. In a perfect world they wouldn't contradict. Inside the walls of a church, the corporate worship of God is the highest priority and anything that inhibits that would not be profitable. I should be able to talk about whatever I want to at church but you don't see me cussing up a storm or coming in with purple hair, or coming half naked.

    It should always be legal to carry how you want in church, but in each individual church, they should be free to do as they please. If it's the church's mission to reach the lost, and if it's the case that OCing will deter people from the Gospel due to their own ignorant problems, then it would be an unfortunate situation.
    I agree! I OC for 2 reasons: (1.) Self-defense and (2.) Educational purposes! If people have an issue with my OC, I invite them to walk up to me and tell me and then I have a chance to converse with them and hoprfully educate them as to the law and THEIR RIGHTS to do so. In most ALL cases where this has happened, the "sheeple" only had issue with OC because THEY thought it was illegal! Once they were educated to the facts, laws, and rights; their POV was changed. Granted, this isn't always the case and I don't expect to bat 100% all the time, just educate those that ask or inquire.

    When I go to church, I view it in a different light than I view the rest of my life. The church is a Sanctuary! People see the church in different ways just as everyone has different opinions. I, personally, will NOT OC inside any church out of respect for God! Neither do I wish to distract from the reason we're all there!

    While I am a huge supporter of OC, those that seek to OC in church are akin to those that carry openly for the shock values or to visually say "Look at me, I carry a gun". I say that out of respect though, not out of a vicious intent.

    Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of reverence for God. As for CC, I DO carry concealed in church due to the shocking growth of church shooting and attacks on churches over the recent years. I believe everyone should have their CCDW and they should carry concealed in church for the defense of themselves as well as the defense of the other people attending church!

    In closing, there have been those that have written asthough they're being told that they can't carry in church, no one's telling you or even saying that. We can carry and should, just carry DIFFERENTLY! Carry concealed! See? No problem and once again we can all agree.
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    I understand that God has no problem with my handgun; it is unfortunate that some of His people do. Where will it end you ask? I draw the line at God and His kingdom. I'm not going to be a stumbling block for unbelievers. However if you aren't deity and if we aren't in a holy & divine environment, then prepare to by offended by my firearm.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    When I go to church, I view it in a different light than I view the rest of my life. The church is a Sanctuary! People see the church in different ways just as everyone has different opinions. I, personally, will NOT OC inside any church out of respect for God! Neither do I wish to distract from the reason we're all there!


    I OC where it makes sense to do so.......it is neither tactical nor considerate to do so in church.



    Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of reverence for God. As for CC, I DO carry concealed in church due to the shocking growth of church shooting and attacks on churches over the recent years. I believe everyone should have their CCDW and they should carry concealed in church for the defense of themselves as well as the defense of the other people attending church!



    On and on we go. Everything here is true, however.....Your doctor says. "I believe in the Second Ammendment, but out of respect for your doctor and his nurses don't do it at a hospital or doctor's office. Your grocer says "I'm a bird hunter and like guns, but out of respect for the grocery and my employees don't carry here." Your pharmacist says "we have powerful drugs and narcotics here don't carry in this place." Your banker says, "lots of money here and too many robberies, no OC or CC here." The mayor say. " this is city hall, a hallowed place of reverence, don't carry here out of respect for elected officials." The judge says, "out of respect for the law no guns allowed." The beat cop say, "don't disrespect me, keep that thing at home."
    Where is the end of this. I just had a long, tiresome discussion with some guy about telling a cop that you're armed when not required to "out of respect". By the way, what happened to that guy? Haven't heard from that cop shill since. aegri_mentis I think was his screen name. Anyway you see the pattern here, we're respecting ourselves out of a right. That is the very definition of political correctness. When will all of these people respect our rights? When these people can't win the argument on the law or logic, respect is the next weapon.
    Well, I won't be shamed out of my rights or my liberty.
    Where does it end? When I enter church & exit the church! I CC when I go to church. There's NO NEED to OC in church unless asked to or you're attending a church that promotes OC. The church is the only "unwritten" place that I will not OC. People will always do as they wish though and so be it. In the end though I will not be the one that's responsible for distracting someone from the Lord.
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    I still think that both OC and CC are needed in the church, it's just that there are greater needs at hand. All about one's priorities.

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    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    What he said

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    When I go to church, I view it in a different light than I view the rest of my life. The church is a Sanctuary! People see the church in different ways just as everyone has different opinions. I, personally, will NOT OC inside any church out of respect for God! Neither do I wish to distract from the reason we're all there!


    I OC where it makes sense to do so.......it is neither tactical nor considerate to do so in church.



    Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of reverence for God. As for CC, I DO carry concealed in church due to the shocking growth of church shooting and attacks on churches over the recent years. I believe everyone should have their CCDW and they should carry concealed in church for the defense of themselves as well as the defense of the other people attending church!



    On and on we go. Everything here is true, however.....Your doctor says. "I believe in the Second Ammendment, but out of respect for your doctor and his nurses don't do it at a hospital or doctor's office. Your grocer says "I'm a bird hunter and like guns, but out of respect for the grocery and my employees don't carry here." Your pharmacist says "we have powerful drugs and narcotics here don't carry in this place." Your banker says, "lots of money here and too many robberies, no OC or CC here." The mayor say. " this is city hall, a hallowed place of reverence, don't carry here out of respect for elected officials." The judge says, "out of respect for the law no guns allowed." The beat cop say, "don't disrespect me, keep that thing at home."
    Where is the end of this. I just had a long, tiresome discussion with some guy about telling a cop that you're armed when not required to "out of respect". By the way, what happened to that guy? Haven't heard from that cop shill since. aegri_mentis I think was his screen name. Anyway you see the pattern here, we're respecting ourselves out of a right. That is the very definition of political correctness. When will all of these people respect our rights? When these people can't win the argument on the law or logic, respect is the next weapon.
    Well, I won't be shamed out of my rights or my liberty.
    +1
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    Some folks take things to the extreme! Just my opinion and please don't hunt me down and hurt me. Why would anyone want to carried CC or OC in a chruch? I know I wouldn't because I feel safe in the Lord house. Folks we need to wise up and pay attention to detail.

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    They[s] Fire in The Pulpit!

    I support having Firearms in Church.

    Even Jesus said..., '...[s]ell your [g]armet for a Sword.'

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    CC yes OC no

    One of our ministers is an CCDW Instructor, so I'm SURE he carries in the pulpit.



    BTW he also recently knocked up my wife ;-)

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    I'm sorry but if you feel the need to carry a handgun in church then there is something really wrong with you. I firmly believe in exercising my rights, but there is a fine line you just don't cross, have a little respect for others, your faith, and your church.

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    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    CHRIST was for self defence.

    Christ wasn't against self defence, in fact He suggested those who never owned a sword, (wepon of choice in those days), sell their cloak and buy one.

    "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."(Luke 22:36). Haz.

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    There are some places where I greatly prefer to concealed carry, and a church is one of them. It's just polite.

    Other than that, I do not view churches as gun free zones - to me it is just another gathering of people subject to random attack, and one needs protection there just as much as anywhere else.

    (Only time my carrying at a church was ever noticed was at a wedding in Hamilton, Montana, where the groom and I briefly hugged. He made contact with my nine, chuckled, and when he stepped back he tapped his side and said "Me, too." )
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

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