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Thread: DMV offices across Oregon post illegal gun ban signs

  1. #1
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    DMV offices across Oregon post illegal gun ban signs


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    Interesting. ORS 166.360 is simply definitions. 166.370 actually bans them...unless you have a CHL. Good to go.

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    I'm so glad DMV came up with the great idea to post the law. This way criminals won't break the law! I've posted a similar sign on the door at work! You should all be learning a thing or two! (see attached)
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    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhisaac1 View Post
    Interesting. ORS 166.360 is simply definitions. 166.370 actually bans them...unless you have a CHL. Good to go.
    You are correct. This one must be challenged to at minimum change the wording for the exemption of CHL holders. Who do we contact to get the ball rolling?
    Last edited by Cremator75; 09-15-2010 at 11:02 PM.

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    Regular Member Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhisaac1 View Post
    Interesting. ORS 166.360 is simply definitions. 166.370 actually bans them...unless you have a CHL. Good to go.
    I know, my mom just tried to argue with me about their signs banning everyone, and had to show her the statute where it exempts CHL holders.

  6. #6
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Hmmm I was just in DMV last week....Open Carry

    In fact I had a nice conversation abotu the FN 5.7 I wa open carrying and how I hadn't had any problems at all with law enforcement of anyone.

    Guess I'll have to get back in there, and register my motorcycle, look for their sign as I enter, and then after I conduct my business ask to speak to a stuporvisor.

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    Who can organize an effort to force the DMV to tear down those signs!

    I think some folks need to organize and demand that the DMV remove those illegal signs and get int he press deleivering the letter to the DMV while open carrying.

    See http://oregonfirearms.org/pdfs/LC_DAS.pdf

    ORS 166.360 does not prohibit any gun carry anywhere - it just sets forth definitions; and while ORS 166.370 does ban gun carry in public buildings as defined in 166.360, the statute EXEMPTS all concealed handgun permit holders whether carrying concealed or openly.

    166.360 Definitions for ORS 166.360 to 166.380. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires otherwise:

    (1) “Capitol building” means the Capitol, the State Office Building, the State Library Building, the Labor and Industries Building, the State Transportation Building, the Agriculture Building or the Public Service Building and includes any new buildings which may be constructed on the same grounds as an addition to the group of buildings listed in this subsection.

    (2) “Court facility” means a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court or occupied by personnel related to the operations of those courts, or in which activities related to the operations of those courts take place.

    (3) “Loaded firearm” means:

    (a) A breech-loading firearm in which there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in or attached to the firearm including but not limited to, in a chamber, magazine or clip which is attached to the firearm.

    (b) A muzzle-loading firearm which is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball, shot or projectile in the barrel or cylinder.

    (4) “Public building” means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.

    (5) “Weapon” means:

    (a) A firearm;

    (b) Any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slingshot, metal knuckles or any similar instrument or a knife other than an ordinary pocket knife, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property;

    (c) Mace, tear gas, pepper mace or any similar deleterious agent as defined in ORS 163.211;

    (d) An electrical stun gun or any similar instrument;

    (e) A tear gas weapon as defined in ORS 163.211;

    (f) A club, bat, baton, billy club, bludgeon, knobkerrie, nunchaku, nightstick, truncheon or any similar instrument, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property; or

    (g) A dangerous or deadly weapon as those terms are defined in ORS 161.015. [1969 c.705 §1; 1977 c.769 §2; 1979 c.398 §1; 1989 c.982 §4; 1993 c.741 §2; 1999 c.577 §2; 1999 c.782 §6; 2001 c.201 §1]



    166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    (2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a person who intentionally possesses:

    (A) A firearm in a court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony. A person who intentionally possesses a firearm in a court facility shall surrender the firearm to a law enforcement officer.

    (B) A weapon, other than a firearm, in a court facility may be required to surrender the weapon to a law enforcement officer or to immediately remove it from the court facility. A person who fails to comply with this subparagraph is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony.

    (b) The presiding judge of a judicial district may enter an order permitting the possession of specified weapons in a court facility.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

    (b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

    (c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    (e) A person who is authorized by the officer or agency that controls the public building to possess a firearm or dangerous weapon in that public building.

    (f) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, who possesses a firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

    (g) Possession of a firearm on school property if the firearm:

    (A) Is possessed by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm; and

    (B) Is unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle.

    (4) The exceptions listed in subsection (3)(b) to (g) of this section constitute affirmative defenses to a charge of violating subsection (1) of this section.

    (5)(a) Any person who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, discharges or attempts to discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a school shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    (b) Paragraph (a) of this subsection does not apply to the discharge of a firearm:

    (A) As part of a program approved by a school in the school by an individual who is participating in the program;

    (B) By a law enforcement officer acting in the officer’s official capacity; or

    (C) By an employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

    (6) Any weapon carried in violation of this section is subject to the forfeiture provisions of ORS 166.279.

    (7) Notwithstanding the fact that a person’s conduct in a single criminal episode constitutes a violation of both subsections (1) and (5) of this section, the district attorney may charge the person with only one of the offenses.

    (8) As used in this section, “dangerous weapon” means a dangerous weapon as that term is defined in ORS 161.015. [1969 c.705 §§2,4; 1977 c.207 §2; 1979 c.398 §2; 1989 c.839 §22; 1989 c.982 §5; 1991 c.67 §39; 1993 c.625 §1; 1999 c.782 §7; 1999 c.1040 §4; 2001 c.666 §§24,36; 2003 c.614 §6; 2009 c.556 §6]

  8. #8
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    YUP

    I run into signs on public buildings all the time that say "firearms prohibited" and list ORS166.360 as the applicable law. I just walk right past them and if anyone says anything I tell them I'm exempt due to having a CHL. They don't like it but too bad.

    IT'S THE LAW and MY RIGHT/PRIVELEDGE

  9. #9
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    I agree with We-The-People!

    CHL Holders are exempt from this Restriction..., but the Signs are Valid against anyone, not being a Government Official, who has not first acquired a CHL.

  10. #10
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    And, since I have a CHL and know that the signs do not apply to me, whether open or concealed carrying, when I walk past them (since I rarely conceal) I consider it "public education" as well as "public servant education".

    While those of us on this site are generally well aware of the law and the exemptions granted to CHL holders in this state, there are a lot of CHL holders who are not as aware and, being law abiding citizens, turn away at the sight of such signs and divest themselves of their lawfully carried firearm. This is exactly the intent of the signs as those in charge know that criminals are going to ignore such signs.

    It is merely another attempt by anti-gun bureaucrats to LIE (for they DO know the law exempts CHL holders) and cause gun owners to voluntarilly (through their lies) disarm.

    It is no different that the security guards at my college who continue to tell me that I can not carry my firearm on the city sidewalk bordering the school because they have jurisdiction there and that I can not carry on campus because it is against school policy. I carry an empty holster on campus (because I can't afford to be expelled and the long legal battle that would entail) and refuse to answer their questions about whether I am carrying a firearm (in addition to the empty holster). I also make it a major point to immediately arm myself at my vehicle which I try to park right in front of the big windows at the school, light my first after class cigarette (another school rule they try to enforce on city property) and then BS with a friend.

    The guards constantly tell me "you can't do that" to which I reply "sure I can, and you know it". And they do for they havn't even attempted to call the police or otherwise interfere with my lawful activities. ONLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW I KNOW THE LAW (as I've handed them copies of it).

    If you're going to DMV here in Oregon and you have a CHL.....OPEN CARRY and demand they recognize your lawful ability to do so!!!!!

  11. #11
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    We-The-People:

    Sorry, the next I go to the DMV will probably be to change my address, which means my CHL will be invalid until a few hours after such time I go to update my CHL.

  12. #12
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenWin View Post
    We-The-People:

    Sorry, the next I go to the DMV will probably be to change my address, which means my CHL will be invalid until a few hours after such time I go to update my CHL.
    I AM NOT A LAWYER but I don't believe your license is invalid "for a few hours" when you change addresses. ORS 166.295 covers license renewal and in 166.295.2 you are required to report your change of address to the Sheriff and they must issue you a replacement license with the same expiration date. There is no provision in the regulation that states you license is invalid until you report it so a "few hours" would certainly be a reasonable amount of time, as would a few days, in which to report the change of address to the Sheriff. When you consider that the regulation specifically address expiration of the replacement license, if the legislature intended that it be invalid between the time of the move and the time of re-issuance (if a reasonable amount of time) then they would have stated so.

    You might contact Kevin Starrett at Oregon Firearms Foundation and see what his take is on it.

    Anyone else have any input? Perhaps there is some local or administrative rule on this (which would be pre-empted by state statute anyway).

    Here's the citation:


    166.295 Renewal of license. (1)(a) A concealed handgun license is renewable by repeating the procedures set out in ORS 166.291 and 166.292, except for the requirement to submit fingerprints and provide character references. A licensee may submit the application for renewal by mail if the licensee:

    (A) Is an active member of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Guard of the United States or the Oregon National Guard; and

    (B) Submits with the application proof of the licensee’s military orders and a copy of the licensee’s military identification.

    (b) An otherwise expired concealed handgun license continues to be valid for up to 45 days after the licensee applies for renewal if:

    (A) The licensee applies for renewal before the original license expires;

    (B) The licensee has proof of the application for renewal; and

    (C) The application for renewal has not been denied.

    (2) If a licensee changes residence, the licensee shall report the change of address and the sheriff shall issue a new license as a duplication for a change of address. The license shall expire upon the same date as would the original. [1989 c.839 §10; 1993 c.735 §7; 2007 c.368 §4]

  13. #13
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    So is there anyone that has a friendly (or at least neutral) media outlet in their area? Television news would probably be better impact but even a print news organization?

    Here in Medford we only have the Mail Tribun(al) and they're basically just pundits for the anti-gunners. They're the ones that sued the Sheriff for CHL records and have done a bang up job trying to smear David Pyles after his run in with the PD back in March (no warrant, SWAT surrounded his house, hauled him in on a "mental health" twisting of the regs, siezed his firearms) after he LAWFULLY purchased some firearms.

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