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Thread: Does anyone know.....

  1. #1
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Does anyone know.....

    In anticipation of Calif. going "shall issue", I was thinking of becoming a state certified instructor for CCW classes. Does anyone know which gov. dept handles the training and issues the certification?
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Talk to Ed Peruta. He knows everything.

    BTW my class is free right?

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    In anticipation of Calif. going "shall issue", I was thinking of becoming a state certified instructor for CCW classes. Does anyone know which gov. dept handles the training and issues the certification?
    To my knowledge, there is no state authority. Each issuing agency determines its own trainers. Basically you make a syllabus for a training course and submit it to an agency. They then approve/deny your course.

    Look at PCs 12050 through 12054 to find the bare minimum requirements (incase I miss something below)

    12050. (a) (1) (E) (i) For new license applicants, the course of training may be
    any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall not exceed 16
    hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and
    the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. Notwithstanding
    this clause, the licensing authority may require a community college
    course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and
    Training, up to a maximum of 24 hours, but only if required uniformly
    of all license applicants without exception.

    (ii) For license renewal applicants, the course of training may be
    any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall be no less
    than four hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm
    safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. No
    course of training shall be required for any person certified by the
    licensing authority as a trainer for purposes of this subparagraph,
    in order for that person to renew a license issued pursuant to this
    section.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I don't know of any counties that require applicants to take a "course" to get a CCW. The entire process seems to be based on arbitrarily determining if you're important enough to deserve a permit, that you're not a nutjob or a criminal, and to make it so convoluted and uninviting that most people are deterred from applying in the first place. In San Bernardino county, the only thing even resembling a course is a requirement for you to fire several rounds (less than 20, I believe) at a close range target at the Sheriff's range in Glen Helen. If you know how to operate your firearm and your rounds hit the target, you pass. There is no instruction on the law, the use of deadly force, etc., as there are in other states. If the state were really as concerned about safety as they claim, you'd think they would have something like that going, but they don't.
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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    It seems a training course is required in San Diego County. Who teaches the class? How does on become an instructor for these classes?

    Who May Be Issued a License
    The licensing authority specified in PC section 12050(a)(1) (a sheriff or head of a municipal police department) may issue a
    license to persons who are of good moral character, who have completed a course of training, and where good cause exists
    for issuance of the CCW license. All applications for a CCW will be fingerprinted and state records will be checked to
    determine if they are in a prohibiting class. Attachments 1, 2, and 3 (following page 14 of this application) list all categories
    that would cause a person to be in a class prohibiting them from possessing firearms and being granted a CCW license.
    These attachments are updated annually to reflect new legislation and other changes in the law.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    To my knowledge, there is no state authority. Each issuing agency determines its own trainers. Basically you make a syllabus for a training course and submit it to an agency. They then approve/deny your course.

    Look at PCs 12050 through 12054 to find the bare minimum requirements (incase I miss something below)

    12050. (a) (1) (E) (i) For new license applicants, the course of training may be
    any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall not exceed 16
    hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and
    the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. Notwithstanding
    this clause, the licensing authority may require a community college
    course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and
    Training, up to a maximum of 24 hours, but only if required uniformly
    of all license applicants without exception.

    (ii) For license renewal applicants, the course of training may be
    any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall be no less
    than four hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm
    safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. No
    course of training shall be required for any person certified by the
    licensing authority as a trainer for purposes of this subparagraph,
    in order for that person to renew a license issued pursuant to this
    section.
    Yep. It is all up to the County Sheriff as far as I can see. I guess I'll contact the man and see whats up.
    Last edited by Gundude; 09-15-2010 at 10:08 PM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  7. #7
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wewd View Post
    I don't know of any counties that require applicants to take a "course" to get a CCW. The entire process seems to be based on arbitrarily determining if you're important enough to deserve a permit, that you're not a nutjob or a criminal, and to make it so convoluted and uninviting that most people are deterred from applying in the first place. In San Bernardino county, the only thing even resembling a course is a requirement for you to fire several rounds (less than 20, I believe) at a close range target at the Sheriff's range in Glen Helen. If you know how to operate your firearm and your rounds hit the target, you pass. There is no instruction on the law, the use of deadly force, etc., as there are in other states. If the state were really as concerned about safety as they claim, you'd think they would have something like that going, but they don't.
    The overwhelming majority of CA Counties aren't even close to being as you describe. Many CA Counties are already nearly 'shall issue'.

    I'm not quite sure what your beef with SBCSO might be, but do you realize they are one of the 'better' issuing counties? So long as you have the ability to stretch the phrase 'personal protection' into two paragraphs you will get a CCW there.

    Where I have a beef with them is that they have many underground regulations with regard to accepting your application. Multiple letters of referral, appx 1 year of residency, etc, etc

    Why are you concerned about the apparent lack of training needed?!? isn't that a good thing?!? Shall not be infringed afterall? Look at AZ, AK and VT - 'lack' of training in those states isn't making the streets run with blood is it? What about the multitude of states where Unlicensed LOC is perfectly legal?

  8. #8
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    I'm not concerned about anything. I was merely noting that the CA politicians, who claim the right to regulate guns in the name of safety, are not really concerned about safety at all. They are only concerned about making the process to buy and to carry guns as difficult and intimidating as possible.

    And I am aware of SBSO's issuance policies and procedures. A friend of mine just got his permit from Sheriff Hoops. But I'm not inclined whatsoever to ask anyone's permission to defend myself, which is why I have not already applied. I'm leaving the state permanently within the next 6-8 months, so there isn't any point to applying now anyway.

    Thankfully in New Hampshire, and in neighboring Vermont, one does not need to ask permission to carry a loaded sidearm. NH does have a token permit required for concealment, which costs $10 and is a very short application form. No photos, prints, training, etc. needed to apply. Even so, I won't be asking for their permission, either. There is a movement to repeal the law completely and make NH like VT, but I won't hold my breath for it. I am perfectly content with OC.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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