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  1. #1
    69Charger
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    Last post

    Thank you to all I have met. You have been good friends.
    I have learned and appreciate what others are doing to promote the normalization of handguns in the general public.
    Unfortunately I have come to realize that I can not fit the profile which many here feel you need to fit. Its just not in my nature on too many issues. (reading responses to other threads has hit a nerve)
    I will continue to Open Carry when the weather permits (as I did before joining this forum) and try not to damage what others have worked for.
    And will always support our 2nd amendment rights. (in the way I have for the last 30yrs) And am proud of.
    But It is now up to someone else to organize a get together.(Dennys 3rd Saturday meet)
    Its hard when your heart is not in it. And I find mine is not.
    It has been an eye opener.
    Stay safe and keep your powder dry.
    SEMPER FI
    Dave

  2. #2
    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Sad to see you go brother! It was good to meet you and I enjoyed talking to you at Willow Lake.
    Take care!

  3. #3
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    Sorry you feel the need to leave just because of a difference of opinion. I don't agree with some people here and I'm sure some wouldn't agree with me on everything. But we're all here to help support each other in exercising our God given rights. Either way, take care.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Please dont go?

    I reckon about 90% of people disgaree with me Down Under and who knows how many here, but I ain't giving up or leaving. Haz.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Sad to see you go, Dave, as I more often than not have agreed with your thoughts and opinions, and appreciated the energy you brought to the community.

    Thing is, I also understand the feelings that are pushing you to leave.

    Do keep lurking here, Dave, as there is a lot to be learned, and who knows, there might even be changes over time.

    Take care,
    Tom
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    ē ē ē Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciťmus!ē ē ē

  6. #6
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    I enjoyed meeting you in Federal Way and was hoping to continue our conversation in the future. My wife was hoping to meet you as well in the future. Do take care and keep an eye in here from time to time.

    God speed, be safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Mech's Avatar
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    Sorry to see you taking your leave. We've definitely enjoyed your stay here. Take it easy, we'll leave the light on for ya

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Ok, I am confused???

    You posted at 1:24 that it was your last post. Then you started a new thread that it is your last post.

    Why?

    Do you seek attention? Confirmation?

    Others come and go all the time for various reasons. The debate here can be spirited at times. I have thick skin and don't mind the differences of opinion. I have learned a great deal from those with different opinions.

    I guess I expected more from a US Marine?

    As I have told many gun enthusiasts at the gun shows, OC is not for everyone. You make a conscious decision to engage the public, law enforcement and society as a whole. I came out of the closet last year in this regard. And I will fight for the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights with my fortune, my life and my sacred honor.
    Live Free or Die!

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Dave being different is no crime. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many folks here feel strongly about all our rights. And we will state our opinions passionately. Just like having a spirited debate with a friend you may disagree with politically. You don't just walk away and stop being buddy's.

  10. #10
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Ok, I am confused???

    You posted at 1:24 that it was your last post. Then you started a new thread that it is your last post.

    Why?

    Do you seek attention? Confirmation?

    Others come and go all the time for various reasons. The debate here can be spirited at times. I have thick skin and don't mind the differences of opinion. I have learned a great deal from those with different opinions.

    I guess I expected more from a US Marine?

    As I have told many gun enthusiasts at the gun shows, OC is not for everyone. You make a conscious decision to engage the public, law enforcement and society as a whole. I came out of the closet last year in this regard. And I will fight for the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights with my fortune, my life and my sacred honor.
    Really! Your gonna criticize the way he chooses to post that he's leaving.

    Sad to see you go Dave, you were the first OCer I met and hoped to get to know you a bit better. Thanks for your support and enjoy life with your family as much as possible.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  11. #11
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    I'm gonna toss this in, not particularly aiming it at the OPer. More for others if they decide to cut off from OCDO.

    I think the Last Post concept, and then mention of disagreement is sort of a veiled criticism, and attempt to hurt feelings. Or, certainly it can be taken that way, even if not intended.

    Certainly the OPs type of post is distinguishable from some of the noiser departures we've seen with their not-veiled criticisms. Heck, one fella even departed noisily a few times, only to keep returning after his hurt feelings settled down. So, its not like the OP is committing some huge offensive act.

    The classy way to do it would be something more along the lines of a Farewell-Best Wishes post. Mention all the good times. Keep up the OC, etc. If any mention of a reason, don't lie. Just say off to spend time doing other things.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-16-2010 at 01:22 AM.

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Ok, I am confused???

    You posted at 1:24 that it was your last post. Then you started a new thread that it is your last post.

    Why?

    Do you seek attention? Confirmation?

    Others come and go all the time for various reasons. The debate here can be spirited at times. I have thick skin and don't mind the differences of opinion. I have learned a great deal from those with different opinions.

    I guess I expected more from a US Marine?

    As I have told many gun enthusiasts at the gun shows, OC is not for everyone. You make a conscious decision to engage the public, law enforcement and society as a whole. I came out of the closet last year in this regard. And I will fight for the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights with my fortune, my life and my sacred honor.
    Man I knew you were taking a nose dive, but dammm how arrogant can one be and self serving.

    Dave you need to stick around and at least give an opposing view to some of the garbage.

    semper fi
    Last edited by BigDave; 09-16-2010 at 02:52 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  13. #13
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Dave being different is no crime. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Many folks here feel strongly about all our rights. And we will state our opinions passionately. Just like having a spirited debate with a friend you may disagree with politically. You don't just walk away and stop being buddy's.
    Have to agree with you on this one.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Sad to see you go, but I love watching you leave.

    Not really, but I appreciate meeting and talking with you a few times. You'll be back.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Ok, I am confused???

    You posted at 1:24 that it was your last post. Then you started a new thread that it is your last post.

    Why?

    Do you seek attention? Confirmation?

    Others come and go all the time for various reasons. The debate here can be spirited at times. I have thick skin and don't mind the differences of opinion. I have learned a great deal from those with different opinions.

    I guess I expected more from a US Marine?

    As I have told many gun enthusiasts at the gun shows, OC is not for everyone. You make a conscious decision to engage the public, law enforcement and society as a whole. I came out of the closet last year in this regard. And I will fight for the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights with my fortune, my life and my sacred honor.

    I don't thinik you could be more pompous and arrogant if you tried. This kind of attitude is why I am leaving also. I don't need it in my life.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  16. #16
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    is the forum better now??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I don't thinik you could be more pompous and arrogant if you tried. This kind of attitude is why I am leaving also. I don't need it in my life.
    we loose two members, over a thread about an encounter with LEO?
    you think gogo is arrogant and pompous?
    i think he is insightful and intelligent.
    he is polite and measured, learned and understanding.
    he has thick skin and the will to say what he needs to say, without flinching.

    this forum is a free space, take from it, what you like, add to it, your opinion and knowledge.

    your last posts are disheartening.
    why is everybody so mean?
    an armed society is a polite society.
    we fight sometimes, we fight with our words, not our fists, or our guns!
    maybe you need to spend more time with your other pursuits, thats a good idea.
    but are you trying to make us feel bad, because we dont behave like good kids?

    quitters never win, WINNERS NEVER QUIT!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    ďIf ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.Ē

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  17. #17
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    What Defender said....Amen Brother.

    I seldon post here. I come for the information. I'll continue to visit and post occasionally. I've learned to ignore the soap operas and take what I can for myself.

    If you have a thin skin, had your feelings hurt, or feel you don't "fit in", sooner or later you're going to run out of places to go.

    It's easy to get wrapped around the axel if you take everything personally. When replying to a thread, all you have to do is give your opinion then move on. Some will accept your opinion, others won't. Who cares? Is it really worth the effort it takes to unbunge someone elses panties? I don't think so.

    In the meantime, keep the good information coming, and if it takes thinning of the herd to make this a better forum, so be it.

    Just my opinion.... I could be wrong.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Ok, I am confused???
    Donít be confused. Forum suicide is not a new concept; people have done it since way back in the days of the newsgroups. Youíre right in that people come and go. I used to be much more involved in this group but backed out a little due to some of the immaturity, silliness, and off-topic nonsense. I open carry for my reasons, not because Iím a political activist or because Iím trying to change the world. Itís legal and itís preferred for the reasons I stated here.

    When the Washington sub-forum became a sort of dumping ground for whatever anyone felt like mentioning, instead of firearms and the open carry thereof, I merely backed out a little. Itís not my forum and I have no ownership over any of it. If I see something of interest I will comment, if not I wonít. No drama. Dave Workman directed Ruby here because she had a lot of questions about open carry and I did my best to help. I donít understand her leaving, but if thatís what she wants then itís her decision to make. As for the OP, I never met him or really read much of what heís written, but if he needs a dramatic exit, he got what he was looking for. Time to move on.
    Last edited by Mainsail; 09-16-2010 at 11:37 AM.

  19. #19
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    So, I see a group of experienced OCers who have "been through the fire" (some of them multiple times) who are standing up and not backing down when another group of lesser-experienced OCers are trying to somehow soften the way that OC is supposed to be approached from a civil rights 2A/4A standpoint.

    This second group is reaping the benefits of the labors of the first group, and then trampling over their work by submitting and/or volunteering to these detainments/disarming. Learning *what* to do, and not being *willing* to do what is fair and right in regards to these situations are two completely different things. I have not seen anyone here who is shunned because of not KNOWING what to do.

    We're all more than happy to point people in the right direction and arm them with the information that they need to know to successfully make it through a LEO encounter. However, when people join a movement, which has gained the public stage in recent years and decide that they 'like the idea' but are going to do it another way, it is like a slap in the face to those who have gotten the movement to where it is currently.

    We don't fight with fists or guns, as has been said before. But this is a dynamic movement that can enter into unfamiliar territory for some people (like telling cops "no."). This forum will get heated from time to time because people are passionate about the work that they do to normalize handgun carry in the public.

    Mainsail, welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while around here. Lemme ask you a question:
    **** How many times have you met handcuffs for doing nothing other than OCing where you were legally able to do so? Of those times, how often did you 'consent' to your detainment?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I said this on another chat that I am on, left for about nine months, then came back, but it wasn't ever the same again.

    Thank you for at least telling us that you are setting off. I think the people who just drop off are jerks.

    Sara Mae
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    you think gogo is arrogant and pompous?
    i think he is insightful and intelligent.
    he is polite and measured, learned and understanding.
    he has thick skin and the will to say what he needs to say, without flinching.
    +1.

    Gogo gets it. Many others do not. Or they get it until they meet a little resistence, then they almost apologize for exercising their rights.

  22. #22
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Over my lifetime I have found that while some agree with my opinions, there are others that don't. I respect those that disagree and respect them even more if they do it with basic respect and logic.

    I have a hard time understanding some of the positions here when it comes to encounters with police officers. Over the years I have carried a firearm (46+) I have had very few encounters. I have never been disarmed in a single one. I have only been asked to see my CPL (back when it was called something else and printed on an 8X10 sheet of paper) once. Over the years I have found that you don't need to "kiss the officer's @$$" but a little courtesy goes a long way. Any of my Open Carry encounters have been coincidental and not the result of a MWAG call. A nod, and "how's it going" has been pretty much the sum total of those encounters.

    Some threads remind me of the dogs in my neighborhood. There is kind of a green-belt that passes behind about 30 homes. When someone lets their dog out in their backyard, and it barks, pretty soon ALL the dogs are barking. They bark for about 15 minutes or so and then suddenly stop. It's almost like they figured out that they didn't know why they were barking, it was just because another dog started it.

    The last couple of "Encounter with LEO" threads have started out describing the encounter in detail. Most have ended with no adverse results. No arrests, no charges, no being trespassed. One of the latest seems to have had it's genisis in a P!$$ed of party (because he saw someone with a gun that he couldn't intimidate) calling 911 and possibly embellishing the story to get a police response. It had a fairly good outcome, considering. It appeared that from the information AVAILABLE the police were responding as they felt necessary until the situation was sorted out.

    Then the dogs started barking. I am not calling anyone here a dog, just using the backyard dog analogy as how things get real noisy, only to find out in the end that nobody really knows ALL of what happened and why.

    If OC is to become more mainstream it is going to take cooperation from everyone to make it so. It won't happen if confrontation with police, or for that matter business owners, is continually employed. To constantly rant about all the "violations of ones rights" and "you should sue, they ought to pay for depriving you of your rights", and better yet, the constant reference by more than one to "Jack Booted Thugs", certainly won't go very far in gainining any ground with police officers or lawmakers. Reading some of the posts here one might think that they have gone through some portal and are in the middle of an anarchist's or skin-head's forum.

    There are ways to accomplish the desired goal. Confrontation with any police officer on the street is not going to gain any ground at all. Be polite, do what your are told, gather information, and if you feel they were wrong, file a complaint. Your complaint will be more believable if the investigating party doesn't read in the police report terms like "confrontational" or "uncooperative".

    As for the animosity that has come out in recent threads, just remember this is a PUBLIC forum and is read by others, some of which are all to happy to gather evidence to support their anti-gun position.

    Back to my opening statement, some of you will agree with what I just wrote, some will not. I just hope that those who disagree can do so in a civil manner and with some thought beyond "so you just think we should bend over" type remarks.

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    There are ways to accomplish the desired goal. Confrontation with any police officer on the street is not going to gain any ground at all. Be polite, do what your are told, gather information, and if you feel they were wrong, file a complaint. Your complaint will be more believable if the investigating party doesn't read in the police report terms like "confrontational" or "uncooperative".
    Very well put.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    Mainsail, welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while around here. Lemme ask you a question:
    **** How many times have you met handcuffs for doing nothing other than OCing where you were legally able to do so? Of those times, how often did you 'consent' to your detainment?
    I’ve worn handcuffs twice, been disarmed at least a dozen times, and been asked to leave Cabela’s more times than I can count. I’ve been arrested once, for which there is ongoing action. I’ve quietly stood there while one or two officers tried to intimidate or humiliate me by their hostile tone and demeanor. In the last two encounters with police, I asked if I were being detained and when the officer said no, I wished him a nice day and walked away. In every instance I remained polite and respectful. I never willingly consented to a detainment, however at the beginning I wasn’t completely clear on what my rights were and probably stayed longer than was necessary. I have never raised my voice, never been confrontational, and never been hostile. I have never called a business or planned city event to ask what their policy was. Oh, and I don’t eat at Denny’s.
    Last edited by Mainsail; 09-16-2010 at 01:45 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Well I'm going to chime in on this .And thanks Mainsail for reiterating that we don't call ahead and ask permission.That's one thing that chaps my ass big time.We don't ask for what is already ours.As for the melodrama you seem to want by making a post that is your last ,grow the f up.We all disagree on issues here, course I know now one ever disagreess with me...huh guys ;0 ) But I have the utmost respect for those that can and still stand together on this issue and still show up at events etc.Some of us have been at this for awhile now and we don't feel we should be giving in to LE everytime they want to harass someone. But the ones I respect are the folks here that can run into a bad situation and continue to march so to speak.Folks that disagree with me on issues still showed up at Willow Lake because we must stand as one in this. That I respect .We'll sort the rest out later.
    The Marines I know don't quit ...ever! Especially because the may have got their feelings hurt or someone disagreed with them .
    As for the saying "it is now up to someone else to organize a get together" !!What! You don't think we have already been doing this long before you came on the board. A Dennys breakfast meet once a month ...really ??? that difficult.?? Iv'e never heard Bookman complain about doing a coffee meet. I am going to toot my horn just a bit here....to make a point.
    In all of these I have had massive help from OCDO folks that don't quit.....

    March 28th o9 Willow Lake,July 18th 09 Willow lake ,Oct 25th 09 Rally at Dino's, April 25th 2010. Olympia 2nd ammendment rally,, Teaparty addendance 4 times not to mention attending others ,Downtown rallys to support candidates (some which we were able to get for the 2 A rally) Helping the guys with the OC table at times during the gun shows,I don't know how many TV interviews Iv'e done,and the Willow lake meet this past August.I have managed to get get TV coverage of may of these events.Not to mention all of us that went to the Capital last january to protest the proposed assualt weapons ban.All of this between heart attacks and open heart surgery.Ended up in the hospital again after GoGo and I went to Westlake Mall to support Didier the day after Willow lake. There are many others on this board that bust their ass trying to keep our right to bear arms (Gray Peterson,M1gunr,Mainsail,SVG,GoGo,so many) and you want to quit because someone hurt your feelings or Getting together for breakfast once a month is too hard! Guys drive all the way to Spokane for a meet or drive all the way here for Willow lake . Personally Wish you would stay with us because we need all of us to win this whether we all disagree on other issues or not .If we loose the second ammendment the rest of the Constitution we so love to debate will be a mute point!
    If you really were going to leave and had the balls you would have never started this thread in the first place.
    So GEt it together and help the rest of us.

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