Kids and guns...how young is too young to protect themselves?

Beretta92FSLady said:

I do not believe a child needs two loving parents to be emotionally healthy. I believe that a child that is raised in a loving environment with parents that reason with them have a better chance at being emotionally and intellectually healthy.

I am a lesbian that has a significant other of fourteen years, and we have four children. Our children are emotionally, and intellectually healthy. Did that have something to do with the healthy relationship they have watched between my partner and I, definitely, IMO.

Circumstances play a bigger role in how a person ends up in life than what some people want to acknowledge or believe. It is the circumstances the mold the individual. To say that a child who grows up with an abusive father, a mother that smokes crack, that gets a crappy education and lives in a crappy neighborhood, to say that it does not have a negative effect on the life of the child is either chosen ignorance or innate ignorance. there are children that are raised in those types of circumstances that rise up in the face of it and become successful, productive, healthy adults...but that is the exception to the rule. The vast majority do not rise up.

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Oh...I feel sorry for all those Foster Kids who are destined to fail. What do you think the odds are for those who will rise up? 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000?

amzbrady said:

Oh...I feel sorry for all those Foster Kids who are destined to fail. What do you think the odds are for those who will rise up? 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000?

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I see that you are not sensitive to this issue with your condescending tone. It is unfortunate that there are many people like you out there.

Let me guess, it is some liberal agenda that are making up the fact that foster children in large numbers fall through the cracks and end up homeless or incarcerated? Anything to negate the responsibility society has in raising healthy children for the sake of your pocket-book.

Thank goodness my children are being raised in a healthy environment. The lack of compassion on your part is disturbing. I wonder who's children will grow up to be compassionate, productive citizens of this country, and which children will always tell themselves "this is not my problem."

http://www.onthemovebayarea.org/node/561

• There are more than 500,000 children and youth in foster care in the U.S.; approximately 20,000 youth “age out” or emancipate from foster care each year.
• 100,000 foster youth live in California.
• In California, 65% of youth leaving foster care do so without a place to live.
• Up to 50% of former foster/probation youth become homeless within the first 18 months of emancipation.
• Twenty seven percent (27%) of the homeless population spent time in foster care.
• Fifty-eight percent (58%) of all young adults accessing federally funded youth shelters in 1997 had previously been in foster care.
• Less than half of former foster youth are employed 2.5-4 years after leaving foster care, and only 38% have maintained employment for at least one year.
• Youth in foster care are 44% less likely to graduate from high school and after emancipation, 40 – 50 percent never complete high school.
• Girls in foster care are six times more likely to give birth before the age of 21 than the general population.
• Sixty percent (60%) of women who emancipate from foster care become parents within 2.5-4 years after exiting care.
• Parents with a history of foster care are almost twice as likely as parents with no such history to see their own children placed in foster care or become homeless.

Beretta92FSLady said:

I see that you are not sensitive to this issue with your condescending tone. (((I simply asked a question,(Just wondering, does that mean that children brought up in a foster home will not be as resilient?)))
"It is unfortunate that there are many people like you out there. " (((sorry, I am an American, there are alot of us out there, our country is full of us...)))

"Let me guess, it is some liberal (Me Liberal-NOT) agenda that are making up the fact that foster children in large numbers fall through the cracks and end up homeless or incarcerated?" (((I wouldnt know, you came up with the numbers, NOT ME, see below...))) "Anything to negate the responsibility society has in raising healthy children for the sake of your pocket-book." (((My wife and I are responsible for raising OUR 2 healthy children. My taxes are taken FROM me to help support others, I do not recieve money for foster kids)))

Thank goodness my children are being raised in a healthy environment. """The lack of compassion on your part is disturbing.""""((((You said= Children, especially if raised in a loving home, can be raised to be extremely resilient. My children are very resilient, and they respect my partner and I, and our judgment.))))
(((I said = I know children that have been through divorces where the parents have always fought, that seem just as stable as ours. I always figured that it was more based on the individual, not the circumstances.)))
I wonder who's children will grow up to be compassionate, productive citizens of this country, and which children will always tell themselves "this is not my problem."
((( Yea me too...))))

http://www.onthemovebayarea.org/node/561

• There are more than 500,000 children and youth in foster care in the U.S.; approximately 20,000 youth “age out” or emancipate from foster care each year.
  
• 100,000 foster youth live in California.
  (so, that means California has the biggest problem?)
  
• In California, 65% of youth leaving foster care do so without a place to live.
  (does that mean they remain homeless forever?)
  
• Up to 50% of former foster/probation youth become homeless within the first 18 months of emancipation.
  (How are they doing after 24 months)
  
• Twenty seven percent (27%) of the homeless population spent time in foster care.
  (73% did not)
  
• Fifty-eight percent (58%) of all young adults accessing federally funded youth shelters in 1997 had previously been in foster care.
• Less than half of former foster youth are employed 2.5-4 years after leaving foster care, and only 38% have maintained employment for at least one year.
  (62% did)
  
• Youth in foster care are 44% less likely to graduate from high school and after emancipation, 40 – 50 percent never complete high school.
  (66% will)
  
• Girls in foster care are six times more likely to give birth before the age of 21 than the general population.
  (How many girls who have never been in foster care have given birth before the age of 21?)
  
• Sixty percent (60%) of women who emancipate from foster care become parents within 2.5-4 years after exiting care.
  (what percentage of woman who have never been in foster care give birth within 2.5-4 years after high school)
  
• Parents with a history of foster care are almost twice as likely as parents with no such history to see their own children placed in foster care or become homeless.
  (almost)

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Maybe I should rephrase my question and simplify it. I used a foster home as an environment where there are not loving parents.

Are you saying that those not raised in a loving environment are less likely to be emotionally and intellectually healthy. I think it depends solely on the individual themselves as far as thier intellect, and some of which will affect their emotions. I think as parents we need to love our children, and give them the best oppurtunities we can. I dont think that their upbringing persay "Love and understanding or how much they respect our judgement" will really play much of a part in how they will be after seeing anyones head blown off. That is what I am saying will depend on the individual.

amzbrady said:

Maybe I should rephrase my question and simplify it. I used a foster home as an environment where there are not loving parents.

Are you saying that those not raised in a loving environment are less likely to be emotionally and intellectually healthy. I think it depends solely on the individual themselves as far as thier intellect, and some of which will affect their emotions. I think as parents we need to love our children, and give them the best oppurtunities we can. I dont think that their upbringing persay "Love and understanding or how much they respect our judgement" will really play much of a part in how they will be after seeing anyones head blown off. That is what I am saying will depend on the individual.

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Some people are natural born idiots, while others are natural born Einstein's, IMO. That is not to say that the idiot can't learn, nor does it mean the Einstein is going to have the opportunity to utilize their gift.


What I am saying is that even horrific experiences and the effect they have on children can be managed better if the child has a loving, emotionally stable environment to grow up in.

I could be wrong. I will let you know in ten years when all of my children are adults, and considering the life they have been raised in and some of the difficult things they have witnessed, I will know whether or not the loving environment and intellectually stimulating environment they are being raised in will help them to be good adults.

This is like ION Television
Criminal Minds...
"I'm sensing a pattern." and "Positively Entertaining"

When I was 8 a friends dad gave me a .22 rifle it was our responsibility to keep them clean and use them responsibly. We also kept them in our room. I bought my first pistol at 11.....long story.....

And then here's a case where a 10 year possibly saved his sister's and his life with his mothers gun when left alone. Children are not as dumb as some think they are they will act in expectation of how they are treated.

http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=10741492

I am in the process of putting a scope on my .22 I am giving to my 13 year old. we are also going to build his own gun rack together to keep it in his room, without locks.

sudden valley gunner said:

When I was 8 a friends dad gave me a .22 rifle it was our responsibility to keep them clean and use them responsibly. We also kept them in our room. I bought my first pistol at 11.....long story.....

I am in the process of putting a scope on my .22 I am giving to my 13 year old. we are also going to build his own gun rack together to keep it in his room, without locks.

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I grew up in a household with LOTS of firearms. My father did not buy a safe until after I moved out. And when I say LOTS, I mean LOTS. No locks on a single one. I never touched them without his permission. That is what I was taught.

gogodawgs said:

I grew up in a household with LOTS of firearms. My father did not buy a safe until after I moved out. And when I say LOTS, I mean LOTS. No locks on a single one. I never touched them without his permission. That is what I was taught.

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Now your just bragging.....
But it is true kids are more responsible than many give them credit for. Then again good parents should know more than many do about their own kids.

sudden valley gunner said:

Now your just bragging.....
But it is true kids are more responsible than many give them credit for. Then again good parents should know more than many do about their own kids.

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Not really, but I guess you could think I was bragging.

The rule has always been....if SHTF head to my dads house. We could arm a battalion at his house.

gogodawgs said:

Not really, but I guess you could think I was bragging.

The rule has always been....if SHTF head to my dads house. We could arm a battalion at his house.

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Nah didn't think you were bragging...but i am jealous

gogodawgs said:

I grew up in a household with LOTS of firearms. My father did not buy a safe until after I moved out. And when I say LOTS, I mean LOTS. No locks on a single one. I never touched them without his permission. That is what I was taught.

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This is how I raised my oldest son. I didn't get my first gun safe until my future wife "suggested" I get one. That was because every closet she walked into had guns in them and she had a problem with that. :uhoh:

My son knew he could look at the guns any time he wanted. All he had to do was ask me. He knew how to clear them all, knew the safety rules, and knew the consequences if he broke the rules. But as a parent, I knew he could be trusted from his other behaviors as well.
My youngest son got his first rifle at 5 years old. A 10 meter competition pellet rifle. He is consistently shooting in the mid 90's at 8 years old. Got his .22 at 7 years old. Using "sans powder" .22's we shoot both rifles at home from the kitchen into the garage.
My wife has mellowed over the years......

I read of young kids using parents guns to save themselves when someone breaks into their homes and the kid is on the run.
The earlier comment about accidentally shooting the mailman confuses me. If the mailman breaks down the door or breaks a window and climbs in, likely they should be shot.

With my wife and myself in medicine, my son see's pictures and hears dinner conversation that is way beyond what the average kid is exposed to. He knows graphically, what happens and what the consequences are of knife and bullet wounds.

The gist of all this is that YOU know your daughter. Some kids should not be let alone with a gun, others have a maturity and knowledge beyond their apparent years.

There was never a time in my life in which I did not know where every gun in the house was. I always had full access to them. I bought my first pistol at 12, and kept it in my room. I, along with my younger brother, never had problems. I recall one time, at which point I was 15-16, that a man came up into our yard and I had a strange feeling about him. I grabbed my Dad's loaded .38 special snubbie and put it in my back jeans pocket to answer the door. We figured out who he was, and he left without incident. When my Dad got home, I told him about the man, and about how I had a weird feeling. At this point he interrupted me and asked me a question:

"Did you grab a gun?"

I told him I did, and he approved. While I was older than your child when this happened, and it proved to be unnecessary, I was ready (and trusted) for years before this.

Only you can make the decision regarding your own child.

This is just my opinion, but if you are going to leave your daughter alone with a gun for home/self defense, I would suggest a long gun over a pistol. You've said that the shotgun is too much for her, but an AR15 or pistol caliber carbine would probably be about right. It ain't my place to tell you how to run things though, so if you think a handgun is appropriate for her, then do it.[/QUOTE]

I would tend to agree with this.

If my 6 year old son(in 6 or so years) shows that he is physically, mentally, and morally responsible, then yes, I would make sure there was something around the house he could use to defend himself.

Of course, he will have had much training from me, as well as any classes that either I or he found would be beneficial.

Honestly, I would prefer a youth use a long gun of some sort(rifle/carbine/shotgun) that he can handle, and handle proficiently, but they would be trained in all firearms in my home.

I would of course be sure to instruct guidelines as to when they should use it, as well as have them go through classes(which I would attend as well, just to know what was taught, and see what they learned) before that happened. Basically I would instruct them to stay armed, stay in certain places of the house(basically stay armed, hide, and if they come close, pop them kind of mentality). Call the police when reasonably able to do so, cooperate with police, only give out the name and number of myself or my wife, and request a lawyer.

Back in the old days, 12 year old boys would be responsible for the whole household while the father was gone(and some even younger). This day in age, you have to make sure they are responsible, have a large toolbox of techniques to work from, and are able to use what you allow them to have well under stress.

I grew up with a rocky upbringing, got in some trouble with the law as a juvenile, but both my parents, who are divorced, loved me all the same. I never grew up around firearms because neither of my parents had any. But today, I love them, are safe with them, and responsible with them.

When I was 6-7 years old, I would walk to school in the mornings with my brothers, and walk home with my brothers, as well as made sure they stayed out of trouble after school while my mom was at work. Didn't have firearms, but was taught to not answer the door to people we didn't know, how to call the police in an emergency, and knew many neighbors to get in contact with in case of an emergency.

Of course, there was an old lady down the street I would hang out with because she was a cool old lady. I'd chill at her house, eat cookies, help her with her trash, and talk with her for hours everyday. But my mom raised me to have some form of chivalry. I met her by taking out her trash one day.

However, I will admit I've done my share of irresponsible shenanigans when I was a youth. I will never deny that.

Less is more

IMO children this young haven't developed the mental skills or maturity to consistently make good decisions to give them this level of responsibility....but that said, and having raised a passel of them, they are each different too each child and decision is unique.

If I decided to do this, and resolved that the need was real enough, and other options weren't available, I would start out with a less lethal method....

He/she would have one of those "first alert" buttons on all the time- (help! I fallen and I can't get up) and maybe one of these:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/less-lethal/

Although, it looks an awful lot like some of the super hero toy accessories my 6 year old G'son has now that he regularly assasinates the cat with, despite my objections.

Can I still get one of those for $6?

Trigger Dr said:

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Isnt accidental discharge impossible with all guns?

Weren't Iver Johnson pistols considered in the same category as cheap Saturday Night Specials?