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Thread: Kansas' Second 2nd Amendment

  1. #1
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Kansas' Second 2nd Amendment

    Kansas is trying to get a 2nd Amendment in their state constitution. Why aren't we doing the same?

    Video link: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4339734/k...cond-amendment

    http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/20...est=latestnews

    On a recent morning, Patricia Stoneking aimed her Glock model 23, .40 caliber semi-automatic handgun at a paper target inside the Bullet Hole shooting range in Overland Park, Kansas."That's how you do it," she said as she wound the maimed figure (two holes inches from its center), back into the firing area.
    To Stoneking, who runs the Bullet Hole, owning firearms is not just a right but and obligation."People need to arm themselves," she told a reporter, and not just for protection against criminals. Stoneking, who also heads the Kansas State Rifle Association (KSRA), believes Americans must bear arms for protections against the government. "We have to put limits on our government, and that's what the [right to bear arms] does."
    Stoneking and the KSRA are now supporting a ballot initiative that would give state residents a perpetual right to bear arms in the Kansas Constitution. It's a measure Stoneking says is absolutely necessary. Gun control advocates are calling it absolutely redundant. "The U.S. Supreme Court," said an exasperated Paul Helmke, "in two different decisions over the last two years has determined that the 2nd amendment is applicable to the states."
    Helmke is from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and he says Stoneking already has a national constitutional right to bear arms that would trump anything an individual state could do. "This is completely ridiculous and unnecessary," he said.
    Helmke also says he gets "nervous" when gun advocates "talk about taking up arms against the government." He explained, "When someone thinks that they, on their own, can decide that somehow the government is tyrannical and that they can start a revolution, start a civil war, then we're not following the process that our founding fathers set up."
    Stoneking disagrees claiming that's exactly what the founding fathers intended. "They knew government could become tyrannical," she said. "We have the right to defend ourselves from a rogue government."
    Kansas voters will decide on the measure November 2nd.


    Last edited by coolusername2007; 09-16-2010 at 12:49 PM.

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    I just read that this morning too. Your a great organizer cool get it going and I'll hand out fliers for you.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    I wonder if the legislators who all but passed a ban on UOC would garner enough votes to change the state constitution. Pretty unlikely.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    According to wikipedia, an amendment to the CA state constitution can be acheived by either the legislature or the people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor..._and_revisions

    The constitution of California distinguishes between constitutional amendments and revisions, the latter of which is considered to be a "substantial change to the entire constitution, rather than ... a less extensive change in one or more of its provisions".[16] Both require passage of a California ballot proposition by voters, but they differ in how they may be proposed. An amendment may be placed on the ballot by either a two-thirds vote in the California State Legislature or signatures equal to 8% of the votes cast in the last gubernatorial election, among the lowest thresholds for similar measures of any U.S. state.[17] As of 2008[update], this was 694,354 signatures[18] compared to an estimated 2007 population of 36,553,215.[19] Revisions originally required a constitutional convention but today may be passed with the approval of both two-thirds of the legislature and a majority of voters; while simplified since its beginnings, the revision process is considered more politically charged and difficult to successfully pass than an amendment.[20]

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chewy352 View Post
    I just read that this morning too. Your a great organizer cool get it going and I'll hand out fliers for you.
    Good to have you back on the forums Chewy! Thanks for the vote of confidence.

    We'll need appr. 695K signatures plus anywhere from 10-30% more for signatures that won't qualify. From what I've heard, signatures are batch sampled for validity, so you have to have the minimum number required plus a percentage higher than the batch test invalid rate to meet the requirements.

    To get this many signatures a professional petition management company's services will be needed. Cost for this kind of service is apprx. $1-2 million. The company that managed the Prop 8 petition drive was Bader and Associates and reportedly cost $882,900. The Prop 8 proponents spent appr. $70 million for the entire campaign.

    Those are the realities of having a chance at success. Is the cost high? Yes. Is it impossible for us to mount such an effort? No, I don't think so. A challenge for sure, but not impossible.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    We'll need appr. 695K signatures plus anywhere from 10-30% more for signatures that won't qualify.
    I'm in for collecting 5k. Who's next?

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    I've contacted Bader & Associates, the petition management company. I'll let you know if they get back to me.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    I think there is a time frame in which the signatures must be gathered. I don't think you can gather them for 10 yrs and then turn them in.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I'm in for collecting 5k. Who's next?

    695,000 + 30% = 903,500 total signatures goal
    903,500 / 5000 = 180.7 people needed

    181 people needed to pledge and turn in 5000 signatures to get a 2A amendment on the ballot for a vote. Not a whole lot of people needed, but collecting 5K signatures is a lot for an unpaid individual, but again not impossible.

    ETA: By the way, if 181 people pledged a $5000 donation, we'd have $905,000 dollars. That's another way to get it done with guarantees. Bader & Associates claim a 100% success rate with their signature gathering services. So if you don't have the time, maybe you have the dough, or vice versa.
    Last edited by coolusername2007; 09-16-2010 at 04:15 PM.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Remember, this would only place it on the ballot. There is always the possibility it won't pass.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    You mean $900K won't buy us a 2nd Amendment in the CA state constitution? Well, that sucks! Forget it then. /end sarcasm/

    The concept of the right to keep and bear arms is older than the country itself. I don't think it'll take a whole lot of convincing. Which is to say I have some faith in the People of California.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Professional signature gatherers can get enough signatures to put the amendment on the ballot. You would need to pay at least $3 for each signature gathered. $1 goes to the gatherer, $2 goes to the companies who organize the petition drives. And you will need at least 40% over your target number due to the high number of bad signatures and duplicates. 50% is a better option for safety. Many petitions have failed with the old formula of 130% signatures gathered, and it's been getting worse lately. It will cost a minimum of $5 million to put something like this on the ballot. The more you can pay the gatherers, the more motivated they will be to get the signatures in a timely manner. I used to be a professional signature gatherer, and the most I was ever paid per signature was $5, and that was for the petition to expand the indian gaming options for the tribal casinos. My validity rate was over 95%, but there were a lot more people out there with rates in the 30% range, and lower.

    I am not aware of any petition drive making it onto the ballot without the help of professional gatherers. People do not understand just how difficult it is to get the required number of valid signatures for a ballot initiative. It's going to take money, and a lot of it. That is how it works.
    Last edited by wewd; 09-16-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wewd View Post
    I am not aware of any petition drive making it onto the ballot without the help of professional gatherers.
    This calls for a quote:

    Lloyd: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?
    Mary: Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
    Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
    Mary: Not good.
    Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
    Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.
    [pause]
    Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

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