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Thread: Library carry?

  1. #1
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    Question Library carry?

    I'm having a brain freeze and Google is no help - what RCW/WAC etc covers carry in a Seattle Public Library?
    Not as concerned with KCL system, just Seattle. Link appreciated.

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    You're fine to carry into the library. It is not on the list of off-limits locations.

    RCW 9.41.300

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    library carry

    Thanks for the reply - I've found THIS link (http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...y-for-OC/page1) and am wading through it...

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    You won't find a law or rule authorizing you to carry in the library.

    Remember: If it's not specifically prohibited in the law, it's permitted.

    It's called the British Common Law system. It's what we operate under in the United States.

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    Thumbs up library carry

    Deanf - thanks. I was looking for any prohibitive laws in this area... and I think that there may be none.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post

    It's called the British Common Law system. It's what we operate under in the United States.
    Except for Louisiana. They use the Napoleonic Code as the basis of their Justice system.

    "Laws could be applied only if they had been duly promulgated, and only if they had been published officially (including provisions for publishing delays, given the means of communication available at the time); thus no secret laws were authorized. It prohibited ex post facto laws (i.e., laws that apply to events that occurred before them). The code also prohibited judges from refusing justice on grounds of insufficiency of the law—therefore encouraging them to interpret the law. On the other hand, it prohibited judges from passing general judgments of a legislative value.

    This has often been interpreted to mean that unlike English Common Law, if it hasn't been codified in law, the Judge gets to decide. They don't, however, get to "legislate from the bench".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    There is no law, there is a rule in the library code of conduct, http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageI...licies_conduct in Category "E".

    Of course, the rule is in violation of state preemption and the state and national constitutions. It has not been tested in court as far as I know. Seems to me it would fall under the same area as the defunct parks rule.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Guns are "prohibited" at the Spokane library as well, in violation of state law:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...library-for-OC
    Hey, LT., I just sent the Seattle Public Library system an email...you wanna send one to Spokane?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Hey, LT., I just sent the Seattle Public Library system an email...you wanna send one to Spokane?
    We got Spokane covered. The library board is meeting next week to change the language. Credit to Bennie and Kwolfhound.
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    We got Spokane covered. The library board is meeting next week to change the language. Credit to Bennie and Kwolfhound:
    Is there any hope that a result from the dry side of the State would apply to SPL? It might help if we could show that at least part of Washington gets it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    We got Spokane covered. The library board is meeting next week to change the language. Credit to Bennie and Kwolfhound.

    Good. Keep us posted.

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    I forgot.....

    This is the template email I recieved back the same day..

    Hello Seattle Public Library (WA) has received your question. You will receive an e-mail message with the answer as soon as possible.

    It says that responses are usually given within two days. This is the second business day, how much longer is a respectable time to give to them? Anbody?

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    I'd say that "usually two days" should probably be viewed as an "average" between immediate and max time, so I'd give 'em four days as my rule-of-thumb.

    YMMV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    I'd say that "usually two days" should probably be viewed as an "average" between immediate and max time, so I'd give 'em four days as my rule-of-thumb.

    YMMV
    Should I doit with a phone call or email? I perfer email because it offers a record of conversation, but a phone call carries with it more "authority".

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    Here is their response!!!!!!!!!!

    Here is the response I received...so what is our next move?

    Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
    Andra Addison
    Communications Director
    Last edited by Lovenox; 09-21-2010 at 10:55 PM.

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Well, color me surprised. NOT!

    Guess it is time to visit the SPL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Well, color me surprised. NOT!

    Guess it is time to visit the SPL.
    I am looking here but its a moot point since they cant make a law to supersede state RCW involving firearms regulations:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12


    And this is what they quoted:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12.270
    Last edited by Lovenox; 09-21-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    I am looking here but its a moot point since they cant make a law to supersede state RCW involving firearms regulations:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12
    Correct, and I am currently writing an email to the named person in the email. I would encourage all of our friends on here to do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Correct, and I am currently writing an email to the named person in the email. I would encourage all of our friends on here to do the same.
    At what point do we take it to the AG's office?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Hello Xxxxx,

    I was deeply disappointed to read tonight of a response you provided which places the Seattle Public Library in direct violation of the State of Washington’s RCW’s.

    In your response, quoted below, you represent the library as a sensitive government place. That is factually incorrect per, RCW 9.41.300, which clearly spells out locations which are allowed to prohibit firearms. You will notice that in no such language, libraries are not mentioned. Since the library is not listed as a place where firearms are prohibited, the Seattle Public Library system is creating a “law” or policy which directly violates RCW 9.41.290. State preemption, as linked, allows lawful citizens the right to openly carry a firearm inside the public libraries in this state, without fear of being trespassed or harassed.

    I would respectfully request that the Seattle Public Library review the unlawful policy and immediately eliminate the unlawful language of this policy to coordinate with the State Law. As an example, and for your benefit, just this week the Spokane Library have amended their unlawful policy which also banned firearms in their library network as well. I hope that you will take the time to read the laws which pertain to this violation of our right’s as citizens and also encourage the change within your library network as well.

    “Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
    Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
    Communications Director”


    My Best Regards,
    Xxxx X. Xxxxxx

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    Looks good! I have something similar and will blend the two.

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    Check your PM

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    Just sent out my response..will keep you guys posted.

  24. #24
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    At what point do we take it to the AG's office?
    The AG's Office has long said that they have no authority to correct preemption violations.

    The King County Prosecutor has said that they won't prosecute for the criminal violations associated with a preemption violation because the issue is "not yet settled." They are referring to the issue of government making administrative rules keeping guns out, and if that is a preemption violation. Also they would need a case forwarded to them from law enforcement. And now that I think about it, the King County Prosecutor only handles felonies. I guess you could try the Seattle City Attorney . . .

    No, you are on your own for any court ordered corrective action. You need to file a Writ of Mandamus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    The AG's Office has long said that they have no authority to correct preemption violations.

    The King County Prosecutor has said that they won't prosecute for the criminal violations associated with a preemption violation because the issue is "not yet settled." They are referring to the issue of government making administrative rules keeping guns out, and if that is a preemption violation. Also they would need a case forwarded to them from law enforcement. And now that I think about it, the King County Prosecutor only handles felonies. I guess you could try the Seattle City Attorney . . .

    No, you are on your own for any court ordered corrective action. You need to file a Writ of Mandamus.
    Thanks for the heads up. Looks like we've got our work cut out for us.

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