Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Matt Canovi sweeping his ar15 at his student that standing next to him after shooting

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kansas city, Kansas United States
    Posts
    334

    Matt Canovi sweeping his ar15 at his student that standing next to him after shooting

    just saw this video of matt canovi, a very well known gun instructor down in springfield area, sweeping his gun at the student after he done shooting some phone books that are on the ground next to him. you can see he even still has the mag in the gun and everything. guess he dosent follow the rule of treating a gun as if its loaded.

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9637817

    just thought this was odd. since he seems to be very respected around here. course i think that might be due to that he has a lot of media coverage, and his own radio show.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fail.jpg 
Views:	434 
Size:	52.8 KB 
ID:	3962  

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Just a slight clarification.

    It looked to me as though the camera person moved himself in front of the muzzle for the actual sweep.

    Nonetheless, I would like to think I would have opened the bolt, and secured the rifle before bending down to inspect the damage. And, if not secured the rifle, at least point the muzzle skyward on the other side.

    Of course, we don't really get a look at the surrounding area in the vid. Maybe the way he pointed the muzzle was ordinarily the safest direction. For example, maybe there is someone's house in the other directions.

    I can't criticize the instructor for not thinking forward that the camera man would cross the muzzle. I can see where it would have been thoughtful to foresee it; but I can't fault him for being absorbed just enough in the phonebook to not foresee it. Perhaps this is the real lesson here--secure the weapon first--always--then inspect the target, experiment, etc.

    In the end, lets remember that the 4 Rules are layers of safety. Just exactly so that if one rule is violated, there are other layers to still prevent tragedy. No tragedy occurred, unless you were an advertiser in that phone book.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Mo
    Posts
    26
    quote ''Just a slight clarification.

    It looked to me as though the camera person moved himself in front of the muzzle for the actual sweep.''



    Exactly what I see there. The fail I see is he held the rifle with his left hand while the cameraman is on his left , should have moved the rifle to his right hand . (imo)
    Last edited by JDW; 09-18-2010 at 10:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    613
    OMQ... major safety fail. The rifle does appear to be loaded still. It is that kind of casual attitude that got that St. Joe cop shot... combined with whatever activity that led to the shooting. Seems civilians are more trustworthy when it comes to owning or carrying guns:
    "A nationwide study by Don Kates, the constitutional lawyer and criminologist, found that only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."
    http://www.newsweek.com/1993/11/14/a...f-cowards.html page 3

  5. #5
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    , Missouri, USA
    Posts
    687
    A few things I'll mention; one, this was a very poor quality video and it did a poor job of showing the whole picture here. As was mentioned above, this video doesn't give us any idea of what was going on in the immediate area while this "demonstration" was taking place.

    Two, the cameraman stepped into the "line of fire", rather than the gun being intentionally (or even recklessly) pointed at him. That said, it appears that the direction the gun was pointed in at the time was a poorly chosen one, at best.

    Three, the overall handling of the weapon (as much as can be seen on the video, anyway) appears to be complacent all the way around. Shooting at phone books that are literally at your feet while students (presumably) stand just a few feet away seems like LESS than a good idea to me. Furthermore, once the last shot was fired in the "demonstration", the gun seems to have been haphazardly placed into a position that looked neither overly safe or secure, and at no time was the gun condition checked or made safe (at least, not that you can tell from the video).

    Four, instructors are human beings and are fallible. They make mistakes just like everyone else. That said, a firearms instructor can ill afford to ever muzzle a student with any firearm, regardless of it's condition. Your credibility pretty much goes down the toilet at that moment, even if nothing bad happens from it. The first rule of gun safety is to ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, and it simply must be observed at all times.

    Five, I am inclined, at this point, to give Mr. Canovi the benefit of the doubt here based off of the fact that, as I mentioned above, the video doesn't give us a complete perspective of the situation and the cameraman obviously walked into the line of fire. The only side of the story we are getting here is a very narrow part from the poor quality video. I believe we should give Mr. Canovi the chance to respond and tell his side of the story before anyone condemns him based simply off of this video.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    613
    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    A few things I'll mention; one, this was a very poor quality video and it did a poor job of showing the whole picture here. As was mentioned above, this video doesn't give us any idea of what was going on in the immediate area while this "demonstration" was taking place.

    Two, the cameraman stepped into the "line of fire", rather than the gun being intentionally (or even recklessly) pointed at him. That said, it appears that the direction the gun was pointed in at the time was a poorly chosen one, at best.

    Three, the overall handling of the weapon (as much as can be seen on the video, anyway) appears to be complacent all the way around. Shooting at phone books that are literally at your feet while students (presumably) stand just a few feet away seems like LESS than a good idea to me. Furthermore, once the last shot was fired in the "demonstration", the gun seems to have been haphazardly placed into a position that looked neither overly safe or secure, and at no time was the gun condition checked or made safe (at least, not that you can tell from the video).

    Four, instructors are human beings and are fallible. They make mistakes just like everyone else. That said, a firearms instructor can ill afford to ever muzzle a student with any firearm, regardless of it's condition. Your credibility pretty much goes down the toilet at that moment, even if nothing bad happens from it. The first rule of gun safety is to ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, and it simply must be observed at all times.

    Five, I am inclined, at this point, to give Mr. Canovi the benefit of the doubt here based off of the fact that, as I mentioned above, the video doesn't give us a complete perspective of the situation and the cameraman obviously walked into the line of fire. The only side of the story we are getting here is a very narrow part from the poor quality video. I believe we should give Mr. Canovi the chance to respond and tell his side of the story before anyone condemns him based simply off of this video.
    The young man who recorded the event took the video down... I will reserve comment pending his response on the website...

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kansas city, Kansas United States
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by peterarthur View Post
    The young man who recorded the event took the video down... I will reserve comment pending his response on the website...

    i let matt know of this video and a link of the video. and thats about when the student took it down. andi know who took the video. and he good freinds with matt. so i sure matt talked to him and had him take it down. i dont blame him. that video makes him look pretty bad

    but matt canovi, didnt say he was going to comment back his response. he just said he understands. did he tell you peter, that he was going to respond?

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Sadly, by you spreading the video and attaching the name to it, you're doing just as much an injustice as it having been posted to begin with. It appears as though you might hold him in good regard, so I'd suggest you edit your own posts to remove his name in conjunction with the issue in the video.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kansas city, Kansas United States
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    Sadly, by you spreading the video and attaching the name to it, you're doing just as much an injustice as it having been posted to begin with. It appears as though you might hold him in good regard, so I'd suggest you edit your own posts to remove his name in conjunction with the issue in the video.


    no my buddy seems to like him. i wouldnt say i disliked him. i just noticed he has a big ego. he had a bit of an ego telling me his class teaches more then other instructors, and that why he charges more. after i took his class. he didnt teach anything more then the laws about CCW that all other instructors are going to teach you. he talked atleast an hour, i say closer to 2 hours, about himself. and then another half hour to a hour about his other classes. and dvds he sells. and i remember he told us something wrong on where we can carry. and when i called him back, his wife who answere, wouldnt even admit that its wront, she kinda just beat around the bush. and there a few other things i heard of his classes. but i think i going to leave that off since it refers to some of his students and it might be someone on here and i dont want to offend any of his students that i might be referncing. and when we were qualifiying there wasa girl next to me that had 15 out of 20 rounds within 2-3 inches of the edge of the b27 target we qualified on. and the other 5 close to the center mass but wasnt even in it. and he telling her that she doing great. i know he cant disqualify her for it, since it meets the guidelines for CCW license. but i think he prob should of told her she need to work on praticing and getting them closer. b/c those 15 shots that were on the edge would of just cliped their side. i personally think if your going to carry you should know a bit more on shooting.

    but really i only taken his CCW class and that was just over the legal aspects. he dosent teach(or atleast he didnt in my class) any gun tatic. so i havent seen how he treats guns or if this was a one time deal. and while i dont like that his radio shows basically just one big comercial and even 1/4 of the CCW class is just advertising himself and his other products/classes. but that not really make him a bad instructor. and most instructors push their other classes, i just felt he pushed it to much, that he used more time on that then the class that they are there for.

    so in the end i personally prob wont take any more of canovi classes. i wasnt impressed at him tell the girl that she doing well. and if i take one of his classes and i doing poorly. i want him to tell me and let me know i need to pratice on that. dont be telling me thats good.

    and that video is his lack of judgement and violating saftey rules. i think he should stand up for it. he should stand up and admit to the error. i not here to try to hide that he makes several safety violations. like the guy at IDPA match, that pointed a ar15(unloaded) down range when others were down range. i wasnt there but a guy told me that they chewed him out. they dont just let it go and let the person keep doing stuff like that. and i think people considering his clas should know about it. i mean if i was that camara man i would of been hollering the minute he put that gun down that had the muzzle a foot from sweeping me. i wouldnt of waited for him to actually sweep me. just like in the IDPA match they not going to wait till he loads the gun or that the gun is actually targeted near a person to stop the person from pointing the gun near someone.

    so no i not really hold him in high regard, i just thought others considering his class should see this.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by goalseter88 View Post
    no my buddy seems to like him. i wouldnt say i disliked him. i just noticed he has a big ego. he had a bit of an ego telling me his class teaches more then other instructors, and that why he charges more. after i took his class. he didnt teach anything more then the laws about CCW that all other instructors are going to teach you. he talked atleast an hour, i say closer to 2 hours, about himself. and then another half hour to a hour about his other classes. and dvds he sells. and i remember he told us something wrong on where we can carry. and when i called him back, his wife who answere, wouldnt even admit that its wront, she kinda just beat around the bush. and there a few other things i heard of his classes. but i think i going to leave that off since it refers to some of his students and it might be someone on here and i dont want to offend any of his students that i might be referncing. and when we were qualifiying there wasa girl next to me that had 15 out of 20 rounds within 2-3 inches of the edge of the b27 target we qualified on. and the other 5 close to the center mass but wasnt even in it. and he telling her that she doing great. i know he cant disqualify her for it, since it meets the guidelines for CCW license. but i think he prob should of told her she need to work on praticing and getting them closer. b/c those 15 shots that were on the edge would of just cliped their side. i personally think if your going to carry you should know a bit more on shooting.

    but really i only taken his CCW class and that was just over the legal aspects. he dosent teach(or atleast he didnt in my class) any gun tatic. so i havent seen how he treats guns or if this was a one time deal. and while i dont like that his radio shows basically just one big comercial and even 1/4 of the CCW class is just advertising himself and his other products/classes. but that not really make him a bad instructor. and most instructors push their other classes, i just felt he pushed it to much, that he used more time on that then the class that they are there for.

    so in the end i personally prob wont take any more of canovi classes. i wasnt impressed at him tell the girl that she doing well. and if i take one of his classes and i doing poorly. i want him to tell me and let me know i need to pratice on that. dont be telling me thats good.

    and that video is his lack of judgement and violating saftey rules. i think he should stand up for it. he should stand up and admit to the error. i not here to try to hide that he makes several safety violations. like the guy at IDPA match, that pointed a ar15(unloaded) down range when others were down range. i wasnt there but a guy told me that they chewed him out. they dont just let it go and let the person keep doing stuff like that. and i think people considering his clas should know about it. i mean if i was that camara man i would of been hollering the minute he put that gun down that had the muzzle a foot from sweeping me. i wouldnt of waited for him to actually sweep me. just like in the IDPA match they not going to wait till he loads the gun or that the gun is actually targeted near a person to stop the person from pointing the gun near someone.

    so no i not really hold him in high regard, i just thought others considering his class should see this.

    It clearly was pretty silly, but remember it could happen to any of us even without us intending it to happen.

    I see you're trying to make the claim here that you should be taught tactics in a CCW course which is not the point of a basic CCW class. Not being a firearms or CCW instructor at any level, you have absolutely no idea what is supposed to be taught in any of those classes other than what you were exposed to in your particular class. They are required by statute to cover State and Federal law, with emphasis on State law. If you want tactics, take an advanced course from an instructor.

    You also seem to like critiquing others as to what should be required to actually qualify. CCW instructors are supposed to follow that statute, but they still have the ability to fail a student. You may not have known that at the time of your class. So I have a question here, did he see who was performing very well and leave them be so he could focus on other students?

    And you're right...I couldn't agree more...some people need to have more practice to get shots grouped tighter given the requirements in the statute on the B-27 target. There certainly are folks out there that get their permit and never go back to the range to practice. It shouldn't look like a shotgun pattern of #8 shot or a skeet load at over 20 yards.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 09-25-2010 at 01:32 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kansas city, Kansas United States
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post

    I see you're trying to make the claim here that you should be taught tactics in a CCW course which is not the point of a basic CCW class. Not being a firearms or CCW instructor at any level, you have absolutely no idea what is supposed to be taught in any of those classes other than what you were exposed to in your particular class. They are required by statute to cover State and Federal law, with emphasis on State law. If you want tactics, take an advanced course from an instructor.

    You also seem to like critiquing others as to what should be required to actually qualify. CCW instructors are supposed to follow that statute, but they still have the ability to fail a student. You may not have known that at the time of your class. So I have a question here, did he see who was performing very well and leave them be so he could focus on other students?
    no i not stating that he should teach tatics in the CCW. i stating that he made a statement to me on the phone that he exact words( you will get your moneys worth out of this class over another instructor, b/c i teach more in my class then they do) and thats to me asking if he match his competitor at 75 bucks. and he made the statement that he teaches more then what is required or that other instructors will teach me in theres. and thats why he charges 10 bucks more. and it came out that he just taught the legal issues, like all the other instructors do, or i say, they should do. like you said they have to teach the laws. now i sure your right. some might not teach the laws. but in general i dont think he taught me 10 bucks worth more then anyone else. but that wasnt a big issue.

    isnt it that you can only miss 5 shots on your qualifying on each pistol and revolver? are you stating that even if they do get that, the instructor can still disqualify DUE to the shooting, even if she did meet the missouri requirements of only beeing able to miss 5 shots in the B27? but i guessing what you were refering to though is the girl i was talking about that was HORRIBLE? and yes she passed,i even stated that she did meet the shooting standard. i just thought that the instructor could of hinted to get more pratice. thats all i not saying. not saying he should of gone and dissed her shooting, or tryed holding her cert back. i just saying you could polietly talk about mabye that she could go shoot a bit again and get use to the gun. you dont even have to even mention your thoughs of her shooting. just try to make it show that you remend praticing, not just throwing the gun in the closet and never shoot again. but even thats not required

    overall besides telling me that OC is illegal in my class, he hasnt done anything wrong. its just that i think theirs a lot of other instructors out there. and if i ever do take another course. i going to try someone else. besides i think its good to try different people. see what other instructors are teaching. you might find someone else that teaches a different techinque that you like beter.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mo.
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by goalseter88 View Post
    no i not stating that he should teach tatics in the CCW. i stating that he made a statement to me on the phone that he exact words( you will get your moneys worth out of this class over another instructor, b/c i teach more in my class then they do) and thats to me asking if he match his competitor at 75 bucks. and he made the statement that he teaches more then what is required or that other instructors will teach me in theres. and thats why he charges 10 bucks more. and it came out that he just taught the legal issues, like all the other instructors do, or i say, they should do. like you said they have to teach the laws. now i sure your right. some might not teach the laws. but in general i dont think he taught me 10 bucks worth more then anyone else. but that wasnt a big issue.

    isnt it that you can only miss 5 shots on your qualifying on each pistol and revolver? are you stating that even if they do get that, the instructor can still disqualify DUE to the shooting, even if she did meet the missouri requirements of only beeing able to miss 5 shots in the B27? but i guessing what you were refering to though is the girl i was talking about that was HORRIBLE? and yes she passed,i even stated that she did meet the shooting standard. i just thought that the instructor could of hinted to get more pratice. thats all i not saying. not saying he should of gone and dissed her shooting, or tryed holding her cert back. i just saying you could polietly talk about mabye that she could go shoot a bit again and get use to the gun. you dont even have to even mention your thoughs of her shooting. just try to make it show that you remend praticing, not just throwing the gun in the closet and never shoot again. but even thats not required

    overall besides telling me that OC is illegal in my class, he hasnt done anything wrong. its just that i think theirs a lot of other instructors out there. and if i ever do take another course. i going to try someone else. besides i think its good to try different people. see what other instructors are teaching. you might find someone else that teaches a different techinque that you like beter.

    The section I underlined makes sense with what you posted previously, sure wish you would have posted it with that. It's also why one should shop around and see what the reactions of prior students have been for courses that have competitors.

    On the subject of the instructor being able to fail a student. Even if the student puts every round on the B-27 target, the instructor can still fail the student if he or she is demonstrating dangerous firearms practices.

    Having shot a match with each other, you and I both know how important muzzle discipline actually is as everyone has a holstered firearm on their person. That seems to be the biggest issue with some folks in that they become complacent about safety and focus on passing the course. Your example of someone handling a rifle while folks were down range at the last match is a good example of that issue. (glad you gave it)

    I absolutely agree that you might find an instructor that caters more to your needs elsewhere. It just depends on your expectations of the course and what your needs are.

    I'm not sure how long you've had your AR heavy barrel, but BCT does offer designated rifleman courses. You just might enjoy that aspect of the rifle world, but then again you might not. Something to think about.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 09-25-2010 at 02:29 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    613
    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    Your example of someone handling a rifle while folks were down range at the last match is a good example of that issue. (glad you gave it)
    Where would you recommend pointing an unloaded rifle when walking down range? Gotta point it somewhere, right? The ranges I used to go to require that the rifles are unloaded, locked open and pointing down range (why are there no racks to hold them pointing up???) and that no one is holding one OR you can carry your rifle down range pointed up, unloaded and locked open and expect the range master to check you many times when you are new at that range until he is sure you can be trusted. Here in the midwest I have seen a more relaxed attitude, maybe because more people shoot and are generally more comfortable around weapons. I find that attitude a little disturbing. When I am on a public range, I want close scrutiny of everyone because I don't know everyone and I certainly have seen many dangerous bad habits. No such thing as too much safety. Ask the St Joe cop and his friend... In the service, we never set our weapons down unattended, they are attached to your "hip", your steel girlfriend, slung over a shoulder, or holstered (pistols) or stacked (pointing up) and guarded. Maybe the military method seems like overkill. But the accident rate is extremely low...

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by peterarthur View Post
    Where would you recommend pointing an unloaded rifle when walking down range? Gotta point it somewhere, right? The ranges I used to go to require that the rifles are unloaded, locked open and pointing down range (why are there no racks to hold them pointing up???) and that no one is holding one OR you can carry your rifle down range pointed up, unloaded and locked open and expect the range master to check you many times when you are new at that range until he is sure you can be trusted. Here in the midwest I have seen a more relaxed attitude, maybe because more people shoot and are generally more comfortable around weapons. I find that attitude a little disturbing. When I am on a public range, I want close scrutiny of everyone because I don't know everyone and I certainly have seen many dangerous bad habits. No such thing as too much safety. Ask the St Joe cop and his friend... In the service, we never set our weapons down unattended, they are attached to your "hip", your steel girlfriend, slung over a shoulder, or holstered (pistols) or stacked (pointing up) and guarded. Maybe the military method seems like overkill. But the accident rate is extremely low...
    I agree you are spot on. Let me clarify the situation, as I was there and was one of the persons that told the shooter to cease looking downrange.

    His rifle was assumed loaded. The range officer had traveled down range on foot to setup a new round of targets. The shooter was scoping the range officer with his rifle. We told him to point his rifle up, and never point it down range with anyone at the targets. He claimed it to be unloaded, which I have no doubt the shooter believed the weapon was in fact unloaded. We explained that it is never permissible to point a rifle downrange when targets are being setup, or when something is down range that we don't intend to destroy.

    The fella was obviously shaken by the apparent lack of understanding that was given to him, and I believe he was new to firearms all together. He has now learned a valuable lesson I hope he never has to learn again.

    I also learned a valuable lesson. Rifle ranges should have 2 range officers if there are rifles and ammunition that shooters have access too while you are down range. One officer can man the targets, the other officer can make certain no one loads or handles a firearm until the other range officer returns.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •