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Thread: Out of state lurker with a question.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Out of state lurker with a question.

    We have a really great group of OC'ers and a great forum. A few in our group put together pamphlets that we had printed and pass out at gun shows, at some of the saturday OC meet and greets, and to interested citizens with questions. The pamphlet outlines our laws and has some really good references.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ights-Pamphlet

    I bring this up because my wife and I are thinking of visiting Arizona for the winter, we are getting a little tired of the gray, and the rain. I would like to research some of your laws and am looking for some good starting points.
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    I believe your questions would be answered rather quickly at this link to the AZCDL site.....

    http://www.azcdl.org/html/accomplishments.html

    And don't forget - your state CCW permit is good in Arizona and enjoy your stay.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I bring this up because my wife and I are thinking of visiting Arizona for the winter, we are getting a little tired of the gray, and the rain. I would like to research some of your laws and am looking for some good starting points.
    Probably the best free resource is this document. It is produced by the agency (DPS) that issues CCW permits and is required to be used by instructors teaching the state-approved CCW course. The document contains an excellent summary of Arizona gun laws and court cases affecting the gun laws.

    You can also find a summary of this year's gun bills in AzCDL's August newsletter .

    I also recommend buying The Arizona Gun Owner's Guide.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Probably the best free resource is this document. It is produced by the agency (DPS) that issues CCW permits and is required to be used by instructors teaching the state-approved CCW course. The document contains an excellent summary of Arizona gun laws and court cases affecting the gun laws.

    You can also find a summary of this year's gun bills in AzCDL's August newsletter .

    I also recommend buying The Arizona Gun Owner's Guide.

    Fred
    Yep, I forgot to mention that DPS lnk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    I believe your questions would be answered rather quickly at this link to the AZCDL site.....

    http://www.azcdl.org/html/accomplishments.html

    And don't forget - your state CCW permit is good in Arizona and enjoy your stay.
    Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impulse418 View Post
    Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.
    Well, almost....
    All CCW permits are honored in Arizona, and you'll need one to enter into a place that serves booze. The conditions are:
    1. The place must not be posted "no firearms." You won't necessarily find a sign at the door. The law says it must be near the liquor license, which only has to be posted in a "conspicuous" place.
    2. You must have a CCW permit.
    3. You must carry concealed.
    4. You may not inbibe any alcohol.

    Yeah, it sucks, but we (AzCDL) are working on it.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by impulse418 View Post
    Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.
    No CCW permit needed into a restaurant that serves alcohol?? Please explain.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.
    Open Carry is common and very well accepted here. You will find the occasional business that doesn't allow open carry e.g.: applebees, Chipotle, some malls, (and my favorite pub/restaurant just put up a no gun sign -- sad day.) I have never been bothered while open carrying in Arizona. You are more likely to get asked what you are carrying rather than why. And for clarification for bars: you must have a CCW, you must not drink, you must conceal, and there has to be no no-gun sign -- and it should be next to the liquor licence. That is really the only major restriction in Arizona, otherwise -- open carry and now concealed carry are allowed without a permit, though LEO's appreciate it when you have one.
    Last edited by acmariner99; 09-19-2010 at 11:53 AM.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.
    I don't understand the reference to unloading your pistol. Is that required in your state?

    No difference between open and discreet ("concealed" = bad word implying you are hiding something) carry laws (except for places that serve booze).

    A gun is a considered a deadly weapon in Arizona whether it's loaded or not. And besides, why would anyone carry an unloaded gun?

    Unless you carry in a "look at me, I have a gun" fashion (thigh rigs, shoulder holser, pistol on a sling, "Mexican" carry), people won't notice. And open carry has been legal in Arizona since 1912. It's not unusual to see and the cops are used to it. The only comment I ever got from a cop was about the model of my gun (I had a different Glock than he did).

    Fully exercise your right to bear arms in Arizona - carry openly!

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 09-19-2010 at 12:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Open Carry is common and very well accepted here. You will find the occasional business that doesn't allow open carry e.g.: applebees, Chipotle, some malls, (and my favorite pub/restaurant just put up a no gun sign -- sad day.) I have never been bothered while open carrying in Arizona. You are more likely to get asked what you are carrying rather than why. And for clarification for bars: you must have a CCW, you must not drink, you must conceal, and there has to be no no-gun sign -- and it should be next to the liquor licence. That is really the only major restriction in Arizona, otherwise -- open carry and now concealed carry are allowed without a permit, though LEO's appreciate it when you have one.
    One tidbit to add... The requirements that are listed for carry into a bar are for ANY establishment that serves alcohol for on-premises consumption. That would include Applebees, Chili's, Chipotle, etc. The prohibition to carry openly in these places is effective wether or not they have signs up prohibiting firearms. As stated above though, if concealed, you aren't drinking, and they don't have a sign up next to the liquor license prohibiting firearms, carry away =)

    Sidetrack: Some debate the legality and morality of carrying in cases where a business is posted as being 'no-firearms.' The general consensus is that 'concealed means concealed' in those cases, and that it's only a problem if they ask you to leave and you refuse to do so. My stance on it is that if they're posted, I have no desire to FORCE them to take my money, and will shop elsewhere or not carry there. I also still argue that AZ trespass law is worded in such a way that carrying in spite of such signs would qualify as criminal trespass in the third degree...

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/search/...ction=trespass

    13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

    A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

    1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.

    2. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on the right-of-way for tracks, or the storage or switching yards or rolling stock of a railroad company.

    B. Criminal trespass in the third degree is a class 3 misdemeanor.


    I've seen this argued in both directions, and realistically, if you carry concealed into the average business (let's just say a local mall that is posted) you are pretty much guaranteed NOT to get caught, in trouble, asked to leave, or otherwise have any issues. To each their own on this one =)

    That said, alcohol serving establishments are a whole different ballgame as discussed further up and in previous posts, so don't confuse the two.
    Last edited by Thoreau; 09-24-2010 at 06:15 PM.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol? Legislation to this effect went into effect in Missouri and so far no one has died so I think it would be great to see other states pick it up (just I would love to see other states follow AZ's lead on Const. Carry).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol? Legislation to this effect went into effect in Missouri and so far no one has died so I think it would be great to see other states pick it up (just I would love to see other states follow AZ's lead on Const. Carry).
    Just as a point of reference, Arizona's northern neighbor, Utah, does not limit the otherwise legal possession of a firearm in a bar, club, or any other establishment that serves alcohol. Nor is it illegal to imbibe while armed. It IS illegal to be drunk while armed (unless you are a police officer it seems). But if an adult wants to have a drink while legally armed, that is his business, not a criminal matter.

    I'm unaware of any issues with this. We still require a permit (working to following Alaska's and Arizona's lead on the constitutional carry) to carry discreetly or fully loaded out in public. We do have the usual problems of fisticuffs, knifings, and even the prohibited person using a gun in a post-last-call parking lot fight at 0200. But we just haven't had permit holders or anyone else without a long criminal history causing problems with legally possessed guns in our alcohol serving establishments.

    A few months ago an off duty police officer who MAY (blood tests were not done until a couple hours later so impossible to say for sure what his BAC was at the time) have been intoxicated acted in what he claimed was lawful defense of a third party and shot someone in a bar. I recall seeing the shooting had been ruled justified.

    Charles

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol?
    It's on our "to do" list. The current Restaurant Carry law is not an AzCDL creation. The bill's sponsor had been trying for 10 years to get a bill through. In 2009, the NRA came in and "helped" and we wound up with the law we have.

    I moved to AZ from VA where I could walk into a bar wearing a gun and have a drink if I chose to. Like auto's there was a blood alcohol limit. In the 15 years I lived in VA, the only "guns in bars" incidents I was aware of ONLY involved law enforcement types (mainly drunken feds).

    Like I said, we at AzCDL want a better law - it's one of our goals, but what makes us successful is that we know how to play the political game. Five years ago, the idea that we would have Constitutional Carry sounded insane, but we got it passed this year. It's all about bobbing and weaving and knowing when to stirke. The best way to help is to join us. The bigger we are, the more clout we have.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 09-28-2010 at 01:21 PM.

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    It's all about bobbing and weaving and KEEPING THE NRA OUT OF OUR HAIR, plus knowing when to stirke
    Fixed it for 'ya...

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    Fixed it for 'ya...
    LOL

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    but what makes us successful
    I forgot to add that AzCDL was awarded "Grassroots Organzation of the year" at the 2010 Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in San Francisco on September 25th. This is our 3rd GRPC award.

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    I don't understand the reference to unloading your pistol. Is that required in your state?

    Fred
    Washington State only allows us to carry loaded in a vehicle if we have a CPL. That's a major reason why many OC'rs here have one. Stupid law creates a need to handle your weapon every time you enter and leave your vehicle, instead of leaving it safely in its holster.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    Washington State only allows us to carry loaded in a vehicle if we have a CPL. That's a major reason why many OC'rs here have one. Stupid law creates a need to handle your weapon every time you enter and leave your vehicle, instead of leaving it safely in its holster.
    It was almost as bad here in Arizona before Constitutional Carry. Statute allowed a gun in a vehicle without a permit, but a 1994 appeals court interpreted that to mean that a gun in a vehicle was "concealed" unless it was holstered and in one of 4 spots designated in statute. So, in essence a CCW permit was required. However, it got even worse. If you were a CCW permit holder wearing your pistol and someone in your car did not have a CCW Permit (or was underage), they could be arrested (it has happened!) because they had "access" to your gun.

    Arizona law does not distinguish between loaded or unloaded guns.

    FYI - Arizona's state constitution was lifted wholesale from Washington's. Our Article 2, Section 26 (right to bear arms) was taken from the Washington constitution.

    Fred

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    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight, to CC in Arizona if you are not a resident you must possess a CCW to conceal at all? so if one does not have a CCW in their home state one cannot CC in AZ?

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
    So let me get this straight, to CC in Arizona if you are not a resident you must possess a CCW to conceal at all? so if one does not have a CCW in their home state one cannot CC in AZ?
    My understanding is that you must have a concealed license/permit in order to carry into establishments that serve alcohol only. No concealed license necessary to conceal otherwise.

    That's just what I gather from the conversation though, no personal AZ knowledge or experience here.
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    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    My understanding is that you must have a concealed license/permit in order to carry into establishments that serve alcohol only. No concealed license necessary to conceal otherwise.

    That's just what I gather from the conversation though, no personal AZ knowledge or experience here.
    Thats what im gathering reading the conversation again and trying to go through the AZ laws. I know the alcohol thing is funky. I guess I could wait until someone that lives in AZ can put this to bed it would be great to get a firm understanding as I own land in AZ but not a resident and always OC there however sometimes id like to CC for trips such as the canyon and what have you.

  23. #23
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Welcome to Arizona!

    If you are:
    Over 18: No permit is required to carry loaded or unloaded, openly.
    Over 21: No permit is required to carry loaded or unloaded, openly or discretely.
    You can carry whichever way you prefer and that is legal for your age range.

    There are some exceptions:

    You can't carry openly into any place that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises.
    You can't carry discretely into any place that serves alcohol for consumption without a concealed carry permit. Your firearm must remain concealed, and, you can NOT consume alcohol!

    You can't carry discretely into any place that serves alcohol for consumption if they have signs posted prohibiting firearms. (They don't get my money...)

    Private businesses can ask you to leave, if you don't you can be charged with trespassing. (None of my money there either!)

    No carrying into government buildings or onto school grounds. The 1000' GFSZ law isn't enforced in AZ.
    Be careful around reservation land, they have their own rules and it can get dicey.

    Of course, drinking and carrying is a bad combination, don't!

    When in a vehicle, you may carry discretely, but if stopped by a LEO, you might be asked if you have a firearm, if you are asked, you must tell them. They might take the firearm for the duration of the stop.

    AzcdlFred posted this:
    I highly recommend you print and read this document: http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concea..._ccw_legal.pdf
    It's the best free resource you can find for Arizona's gun laws and what they mean.
    Thanks Fred!

    It's always best to go directly to the source of the law to find out where you stand!

    You probably won't run into any problems during your stay, the sight of firearms in AZ is pretty common. You might get a comment or a question about the caliber you're carrying, that's about it!

    Enjoy your stay!

    -MH
    Last edited by March Hare; 11-12-2010 at 02:01 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    Welcome to Arizona!

    If you are:
    Over 18: No permit is required to carry loaded or unloaded, openly.
    Over 21: No permit is required to carry loaded or unloaded, openly or discretely.
    You can carry whichever way you prefer and that is legal for your age range.

    There are some exceptions:

    You can't carry openly into any place that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises.
    You can't carry discretely into any place that serves alcohol for consumption without a concealed carry permit. Your firearm must remain concealed, and, you can NOT consume alcohol!

    You can't carry discretely into any place that serves alcohol for consumption if they have signs posted prohibiting firearms. (They don't get my money...)

    Private businesses can ask you to leave, if you don't you can be charged with trespassing. (None of my money there either!)

    No carrying into government buildings or onto school grounds. The 1000' GFSZ law isn't enforced in AZ.
    Be careful around reservation land, they have their own rules and it can get dicey.

    Of course, drinking and carrying is a bad combination, don't!

    When in a vehicle, you may carry discretely, but if stopped by a LEO, you might be asked if you have a firearm, if you are asked, you must tell them. They might take the firearm for the duration of the stop.

    AzcdlFred posted this:

    Thanks Fred!

    It's always best to go directly to the source of the law to find out where you stand!

    You probably won't run into any problems during your stay, the sight of firearms in AZ is pretty common. You might get a comment or a question about the caliber you're carrying, that's about it!

    Enjoy your stay!

    -MH
    thank you very much!!!!

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