Out of state lurker with a question.

We have a really great group of OC'ers and a great forum. A few in our group put together pamphlets that we had printed and pass out at gun shows, at some of the saturday OC meet and greets, and to interested citizens with questions. The pamphlet outlines our laws and has some really good references.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?78380-Washington-Gun-Rights-Pamphlet

I bring this up because my wife and I are thinking of visiting Arizona for the winter, we are getting a little tired of the gray, and the rain. I would like to research some of your laws and am looking for some good starting points.

I believe your questions would be answered rather quickly at this link to the AZCDL site.....

http://www.azcdl.org/html/accomplishments.html

And don't forget - your state CCW permit is good in Arizona and enjoy your stay.

amzbrady said:

I bring this up because my wife and I are thinking of visiting Arizona for the winter, we are getting a little tired of the gray, and the rain. I would like to research some of your laws and am looking for some good starting points.

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Probably the best free resource is this document. It is produced by the agency (DPS) that issues CCW permits and is required to be used by instructors teaching the state-approved CCW course. The document contains an excellent summary of Arizona gun laws and court cases affecting the gun laws.

You can also find a summary of this year's gun bills in AzCDL's August newsletter .

I also recommend buying The Arizona Gun Owner's Guide.

Fred

azcdlfred said:

Probably the best free resource is this document. It is produced by the agency (DPS) that issues CCW permits and is required to be used by instructors teaching the state-approved CCW course. The document contains an excellent summary of Arizona gun laws and court cases affecting the gun laws.

You can also find a summary of this year's gun bills in AzCDL's August newsletter .

I also recommend buying The Arizona Gun Owner's Guide.

Fred

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Yep, I forgot to mention that DPS lnk.

GWbiker said:

I believe your questions would be answered rather quickly at this link to the AZCDL site.....

http://www.azcdl.org/html/accomplishments.html

And don't forget - your state CCW permit is good in Arizona and enjoy your stay.

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Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.

impulse418 said:

Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.

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Well, almost....
All CCW permits are honored in Arizona, and you'll need one to enter into a place that serves booze. The conditions are:
1. The place must not be posted "no firearms." You won't necessarily find a sign at the door. The law says it must be near the liquor license, which only has to be posted in a "conspicuous" place.
2. You must have a CCW permit.
3. You must carry concealed.
4. You may not inbibe any alcohol.

Yeah, it sucks, but we (AzCDL) are working on it.

Fred

impulse418 said:

Don't forget, your out of state CCW is not needed here.

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No CCW permit needed into a restaurant that serves alcohol?? Please explain.

How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.

amzbrady said:

How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.

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Open Carry is common and very well accepted here. You will find the occasional business that doesn't allow open carry e.g.: applebees, Chipotle, some malls, (and my favorite pub/restaurant just put up a no gun sign -- sad day.) I have never been bothered while open carrying in Arizona. You are more likely to get asked what you are carrying rather than why. And for clarification for bars: you must have a CCW, you must not drink, you must conceal, and there has to be no no-gun sign -- and it should be next to the liquor licence. That is really the only major restriction in Arizona, otherwise -- open carry and now concealed carry are allowed without a permit, though LEO's appreciate it when you have one.

amzbrady said:

How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.

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I don't understand the reference to unloading your pistol. Is that required in your state?

No difference between open and discreet ("concealed" = bad word implying you are hiding something) carry laws (except for places that serve booze).

A gun is a considered a deadly weapon in Arizona whether it's loaded or not. And besides, why would anyone carry an unloaded gun?

Unless you carry in a "look at me, I have a gun" fashion (thigh rigs, shoulder holser, pistol on a sling, "Mexican" carry), people won't notice. And open carry has been legal in Arizona since 1912. It's not unusual to see and the cops are used to it. The only comment I ever got from a cop was about the model of my gun (I had a different Glock than he did).

Fully exercise your right to bear arms in Arizona - carry openly!

Fred

acmariner99 said:

Open Carry is common and very well accepted here. You will find the occasional business that doesn't allow open carry e.g.: applebees, Chipotle, some malls, (and my favorite pub/restaurant just put up a no gun sign -- sad day.) I have never been bothered while open carrying in Arizona. You are more likely to get asked what you are carrying rather than why. And for clarification for bars: you must have a CCW, you must not drink, you must conceal, and there has to be no no-gun sign -- and it should be next to the liquor licence. That is really the only major restriction in Arizona, otherwise -- open carry and now concealed carry are allowed without a permit, though LEO's appreciate it when you have one.

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One tidbit to add... The requirements that are listed for carry into a bar are for ANY establishment that serves alcohol for on-premises consumption. That would include Applebees, Chili's, Chipotle, etc. The prohibition to carry openly in these places is effective wether or not they have signs up prohibiting firearms. As stated above though, if concealed, you aren't drinking, and they don't have a sign up next to the liquor license prohibiting firearms, carry away =)

Sidetrack: Some debate the legality and morality of carrying in cases where a business is posted as being 'no-firearms.' The general consensus is that 'concealed means concealed' in those cases, and that it's only a problem if they ask you to leave and you refuse to do so. My stance on it is that if they're posted, I have no desire to FORCE them to take my money, and will shop elsewhere or not carry there. I also still argue that AZ trespass law is worded in such a way that carrying in spite of such signs would qualify as criminal trespass in the third degree...

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/search...File=/ars/13/01502.htm&CiRestriction=trespass

13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.

2. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on the right-of-way for tracks, or the storage or switching yards or rolling stock of a railroad company.

B. Criminal trespass in the third degree is a class 3 misdemeanor.


I've seen this argued in both directions, and realistically, if you carry concealed into the average business (let's just say a local mall that is posted) you are pretty much guaranteed NOT to get caught, in trouble, asked to leave, or otherwise have any issues. To each their own on this one =)

That said, alcohol serving establishments are a whole different ballgame as discussed further up and in previous posts, so don't confuse the two.

I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol? Legislation to this effect went into effect in Missouri and so far no one has died so I think it would be great to see other states pick it up (just I would love to see other states follow AZ's lead on Const. Carry).

mFonz77 said:

I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol? Legislation to this effect went into effect in Missouri and so far no one has died so I think it would be great to see other states pick it up (just I would love to see other states follow AZ's lead on Const. Carry).

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Just as a point of reference, Arizona's northern neighbor, Utah, does not limit the otherwise legal possession of a firearm in a bar, club, or any other establishment that serves alcohol. Nor is it illegal to imbibe while armed. It IS illegal to be drunk while armed (unless you are a police officer it seems). But if an adult wants to have a drink while legally armed, that is his business, not a criminal matter.

I'm unaware of any issues with this. We still require a permit (working to following Alaska's and Arizona's lead on the constitutional carry) to carry discreetly or fully loaded out in public. We do have the usual problems of fisticuffs, knifings, and even the prohibited person using a gun in a post-last-call parking lot fight at 0200. But we just haven't had permit holders or anyone else without a long criminal history causing problems with legally possessed guns in our alcohol serving establishments.

A few months ago an off duty police officer who MAY (blood tests were not done until a couple hours later so impossible to say for sure what his BAC was at the time) have been intoxicated acted in what he claimed was lawful defense of a third party and shot someone in a bar. I recall seeing the shooting had been ruled justified.

Charles

mFonz77 said:

I don't want to hijack, but Fred, did you mean AZCDL is working on amending the current wording to allow lawful permittees to carry (concealed) and partake of alcohol?

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It's on our "to do" list. The current Restaurant Carry law is not an AzCDL creation. The bill's sponsor had been trying for 10 years to get a bill through. In 2009, the NRA came in and "helped" and we wound up with the law we have.

I moved to AZ from VA where I could walk into a bar wearing a gun and have a drink if I chose to. Like auto's there was a blood alcohol limit. In the 15 years I lived in VA, the only "guns in bars" incidents I was aware of ONLY involved law enforcement types (mainly drunken feds).

Like I said, we at AzCDL want a better law - it's one of our goals, but what makes us successful is that we know how to play the political game. Five years ago, the idea that we would have Constitutional Carry sounded insane, but we got it passed this year. It's all about bobbing and weaving and knowing when to stirke. The best way to help is to join us. The bigger we are, the more clout we have.

Fred

It's all about bobbing and weaving and KEEPING THE NRA OUT OF OUR HAIR, plus knowing when to stirke

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Fixed it for 'ya...

GWbiker said:

Fixed it for 'ya...

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LOL :lol:

azcdlfred said:

but what makes us successful

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I forgot to add that AzCDL was awarded "Grassroots Organzation of the year" at the 2010 Gun Rights Policy Conference (GRPC) in San Francisco on September 25th. This is our 3rd GRPC award.

amzbrady said:

How about open carry? We only need our CPL in our daily routine so that we dont have to drop the mag and clear the chamber when we get into our vehicle.

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azcdlfred said:

I don't understand the reference to unloading your pistol. Is that required in your state?

Fred

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Washington State only allows us to carry loaded in a vehicle if we have a CPL. That's a major reason why many OC'rs here have one. Stupid law creates a need to handle your weapon every time you enter and leave your vehicle, instead of leaving it safely in its holster.

ak56 said:

Washington State only allows us to carry loaded in a vehicle if we have a CPL. That's a major reason why many OC'rs here have one. Stupid law creates a need to handle your weapon every time you enter and leave your vehicle, instead of leaving it safely in its holster.

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It was almost as bad here in Arizona before Constitutional Carry. Statute allowed a gun in a vehicle without a permit, but a 1994 appeals court interpreted that to mean that a gun in a vehicle was "concealed" unless it was holstered and in one of 4 spots designated in statute. So, in essence a CCW permit was required. However, it got even worse. If you were a CCW permit holder wearing your pistol and someone in your car did not have a CCW Permit (or was underage), they could be arrested (it has happened!) because they had "access" to your gun.

Arizona law does not distinguish between loaded or unloaded guns.

FYI - Arizona's state constitution was lifted wholesale from Washington's. Our Article 2, Section 26 (right to bear arms) was taken from the Washington constitution.

Fred

So let me get this straight, to CC in Arizona if you are not a resident you must possess a CCW to conceal at all? so if one does not have a CCW in their home state one cannot CC in AZ?