Madison PD detains and cites OCers tonight.

Added my name and some $$ to the WCI group tonight after reading the Chief's memo. Best of luck on the upcoming fight.

The Don said:

+1

That's kinda what I was thinking. Especially after his posts about watching what is said because it could impact any trials or legal proceedings, etc.

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My sentiments as well! As I recall, there have been many members here that "protest" talking to the Police, yet when a questionable situation occurs, it's a hell fire barrage on LEO.
I DO NOT agree with LEO practices like in Madison or anywhere for that matter. However I can absolutely agree with the outrage that contact had brought on.
Some of the comments seem to boast and brag about previous contacts w/LEO, I certainly hope those do not come around and bite anyone in the arse.
Best of luck though!

http://www.journaltimes.com/

After a woman at a Madison Culver's called authorities to report several restaurant patrons with guns on holsters in plain view, officers asked to see the men's identification. Some say the officers' actions were reasonable, but others say they had no reason to ask. What do you think?

Related story: Restaurant incident reveals confusion over open carry

Should police officers be able to ask for the ID of someone openly carrying a gun?
Yes, always

Only if they think the person was involved in a crime

No, never

Vote
View Results
Share ThisPolldaddy.com

Better link to poll: http://www.journaltimes.com/polls/html_817c00ea-c5de-11df-91f4-001cc4c002e0.html

Rich Thank You

Tomas said:

Considering that is the standard QR Code for the NRA, I don't find it odd at all: http://www.nra.org is what it decodes to.

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Not the point. The symbol just so happens to be on a page where LEO are commenting on the Madison 5.
Therefore, those 5 should be careful of what they say on here as obviously the LEO are watching this forum. Lurking as though they are one of us when in fact they are part of the tyrannical force.

What about you Tomas? you just happened to appear too and with your comment I would say that you are more than likely LEO as well.

Carry On!

springfield 1911 said:

http://www.journaltimes.com/

After a woman at a Madison Culver's called authorities to report several restaurant patrons with guns on holsters in plain view, officers asked to see the men's identification. Some say the officers' actions were reasonable, but others say they had no reason to ask. What do you think?

Related story: Restaurant incident reveals confusion over open carry

Should police officers be able to ask for the ID of someone openly carrying a gun?

1. Yes, always

2. Only if they think the person was involved in a crime

3. No, never

Click to expand...

This is a terrible poll. I think that officers can ask whomever they want for ID, that is what Terry v. Ohio set down as law. But, that doesn't mean that they can arrest, or threaten to arrest, people for maintaining their rights. WI is not a "stop and identify" state, people have a right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. So ask anyone that you want for ID, but when they tell you to go pound sand or simply decline, end of story. Pack up your pride and go bother someone who is more willing to surrender their rights.

ETA: Henes v. Morrissey protects us from arrest by refusing to show identification during a Terry stop. At least tell that the Frank ( x2 ) and the other Culver's 5.

946.41 - ANNOT.
No law allows officers to arrest for obstruction on a person's refusal to give his or her name. Mere silence is insufficient to constitute obstruction. Henes v. Morrissey, 194 Wis. 2d 339, 533 N.W.2d 802 (1995).

pvtschultz said:

This is a terrible poll. I think that officers can ask whomever they want for ID, that is what Terry v. Ohio set down as law. But, that doesn't mean that they can arrest, or threaten to arrest, people for maintaining their rights. WI is not a "stop and identify" state, people have a right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. So ask anyone that you want for ID, but when they tell you to go pound sand or simply decline, end of story. Pack up your pride and go bother someone who is more willing to surrender their rights.

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I guess the poll would be filed either under irony or just bad journalism. Doesn't it seem all too common that news agencies are just "jumping" on a story or the underlying lesson/value of an occurance without examining it, or even trying to fully understand it themselves? I guess to be non-biased these days you must be ignorant to to the facts!

I'm sure many of the poll voters would like the ban outright carry. The good thing is, majority does not always rule. The law of the land does. The Federal and State constitution provides protection.

Jay Weber talked a little bit about it this morning...

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18...ast/MILWAUKEE-WI/WISN-AM/Hour 3 - Part 1d.mp3

No one is giving the correct information on the air waves, the woman called in asking if it was legal, not so much that she was nervous.

protias said:

Jay Weber talked a little bit about it this morning...

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18...ast/MILWAUKEE-WI/WISN-AM/Hour 3 - Part 1d.mp3

No one is giving the correct information on the air waves, the woman called in asking if it was legal, not so much that she was nervous.

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I didn't care much for how he kept saying they were "trying to make a statement" or "trying to push the limits of the parameters of the law", etc.

If the five wanted to do that, or any of us wanted to do that, why pick a restaurant that is known to not have a problem with OC? Why pick a restaurant people have carried at in the past with no issues whatsoever?

Seems to me you guys picked a place to meet that was about as "safe" (insofar as not expecting any police interaction) as possible.

Now...the seven of us who went on Sunday in a show of support for the 5 from Saturday, were we trying to make a statement (as in a show of support)? Yeah, sure.

Furthermore, as others have said, even if they were trying to make a statement...so what, that's also their/our right.

The Don said:

If the five wanted to do that, or any of us wanted to do that, why pick a restaurant that is known to not have a problem with OC? Why pick a restaurant people have carried at in the past with no issues whatsoever?

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I talked to a reporter yesterday and he asked why I would bring my gun, was I on my way to/from hunting, target shooting? I said no, I came to Madison specifically to go to Culvers with some fellow OCDO members that I had chatted with online and had never met. I carried my gun because that's what I do and I carry for self defense. I assumed that Madison wasn't crime free.

If we wanted to make a statement, wouldn't we be OC'ing AR15's?

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

If we wanted to make a statement, wouldn't we be OC'ing AR15's?

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No, Pink pistols and <deleted>

Yeah a police officer can ask me for ID, it's whether or not they can compell me to provide one or not.

informational release

the following information is released to the members and viewers on this forum:

Mechanix LTD. is a recognized and publically declared open carry facility. Mechanix LTD. is a contributor and supporter of the organization WisconsinCarry. The Officers and Key Employees of Mechanix LTD. are members, and contributors to Wisconsin Carry.
It is the policy of the corporation to encourage it's leadership, and key employees to own and carry firearms to protect themselves, in accordance with the laws of the state they are in, to protect corporate property and interests, customers, and corporate interests in them as individuals.
It is recognized that while acting as corporate officers, key employees, and/or individuals that they are representing the corporation.
It is recognized that the corporation derives income from sales and services provided at a preferred customer status to open carrier customers. This income is directly related to the names and reputations of the individuals and the corporation as a whole.
ANY accusations leveled against these individuals has an effect on the corporation and it's reputation with the general public as a whole.
ANY loss of sales, income, or damage to the reputation of the corporation due to unfounded accusations against these individuals shall be recorded and documented, and provided to the corporation's legal counsel, as well as WisconsinCarry for consideration of legal action to recover for losses incurred, and damage to the reputation of the corporation.

TyGuy said:

Yeah a police officer can ask me for ID, it's whether or not they can compell me to provide one or not.

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They cannot force you to provide ID unless there is suspicion of a crime.

protias said:

They cannot force you to provide ID unless there is suspicion of a crime.

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Actually that is incorrect. We have the right to refuse ID even if they have PC and arrest us.

Be careful of the words. The cops can ask for your name, for an oral response, in a consensual conversation, and you may decline. With adequate premises the cops can then detain arrest you, infringing your 4A and 5A Rights, search and seize your identification documents or incarcerate you pending verification of identity - like fingerprints.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Actually that is incorrect. We have the right to refuse ID even if they have PC and arrest us.

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Ah, correction for the thanks. My working isn't brain this morning. I coffee I need more think.

Doug Huffman said:

Be careful of the words. The cops can ask for your name, for an oral response, in a consensual conversation, and you may decline. With adequate premises the cops can then detain arrest you, infringing your 4A and 5A Rights, search and seize your identification documents or incarcerate you pending verification of identity - like fingerprints.

Click to expand...

I agree, but I am correct that I can stay completely quiet during the whole encounter and if I sterile carry they will have to work at identifying me and that particular act is not a chargeable offense, am I right Doug?