Stoped by cop at QT

Citizen · Sep 22, 2010

eb31 said:
SNIP
I'm literally sick and tired of the wiseasses that think it's standard policy for permit carriers to reply with..."Am I being detained?", "Am I free to go?", "I don't have ID on me", "Am I required to answer that?", "I dont think where I live is relevant"....and so on and so forth.

Look, all you @$#%house lawyers, how about instead of trying to be witty and cute..and crying "foul!" everytime you see a cop and think your constitutional rights are being trampled...

How about...."How are you Officer so and so...Is there a problem?", "Yes, sir. Here's my ID"....and from there you've already presented yourself as a decent, contributing member of society who's done nothing wrong and is willing to be cooperative and have a decent conversation with a cop.

Something over a million Americans have died defending these rights. I'm not going to spit on their graves by waiving the rights the first time a cop gets nosy.

If those rights are not to be used, what are they for?

Wiseasses? How about the wise*** cops who try to detain and investigate another human being for no other reason than exercising the basic human right to self-defense? There is a huge difference between Detective McFadden (of Terry fame) observing clear indications of armed robbery in the making, or a cop seeing a couple handswaps that look like small time drug sales--big difference between that sort of stuff and a fella just walking down the street 1) legally openly carrying 2) the means to the basic human right of self-defense.

flb_78 · Sep 22, 2010

I suspect eb31 is anti-gun, Just read his signature lines.

"Paranoid sheep should stay indoors. No need to flex your constitional rights just because you think you can."

I recommend not responding to it's posts.

Gunslinger · Sep 22, 2010

Who the hell is 'eb31' and where is his post? I see it quoted, but what happened to the original? As to the OP, file a complaint with the cop's internal affairs. Your rights were violated by some jackass on an ego trip. Stand up for them. You did nothing wrong, but now is the chance to do something extremely right. Good luck!

SavageOne · Sep 22, 2010

cash50 said:
eb, you can do what you want, that's fine. But giving up ID was not necessary here. Many states don't require it. In Missouri, cops need RAS - and that only allows them to get your "name, address, business abroad and whither he is going". Here, look:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C000-099/0840000710.HTM

Also, there is case law where a judge ruled that OC'ing is not RAS to detain someone. Read here:
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...cannot-detain-people-for-openly-carrying-guns

If you had half a brain, you would think most OC'ers are good guys. Who would go around advertising to the world he is carrying if he was a felon?? Or if he stole the gun?

You have the system backwards. It's on them to prove we aren't "decent, contributing" members of society-whatever the **** that means (sounds like opinion based bs).

As for the video recording, it is useful tool for someone who needs an objective voice to show that they are not breaking the law.

I have always wondered does 84-710 apply only to KC and STL or state wide?

eb31 · Sep 22, 2010

Nope still here internet tough guys. And will remain here.
But thanks for your heartfelt concern.

As I've said...I'm ALL for OC....I'm just anti-stupid. Which is the category most of you "heros" fall into.

eb31 · Sep 22, 2010

flb_78 said:
I suspect eb31 is anti-gun, Just read his signature lines.

I recommend not responding to it's posts.

Assumptions like that just tend to make you look like more of an uneducated hick. I own. G19, G26, AR-15 and several other guns.

I'm a US Army veteran. I'm a WCP holder and OC every day.

I'm not anti-gun or anti-OC. I'm anti-stupid....which is exactly what most of you come off as by instigating and antagonizing issues with the avg public, the anti's and the police.

Sooner than later...you wont even have the little amount of rights you cry about now. Keep doing dumb ****....you geniuses will only have yourselves to blame.

heresyourdipstickjimmy · Sep 22, 2010

GabrielSchultz said:
Sorry it took so long to put back up guys. Ive been working alot since this went on. {with the cop}

Saterday night i stoped in at my local quick trip. I have never been there OCing, but anyway i stoped in and had my handgun on me openly and a off duty police officer confronted me. he asked me why i had my gun on me and i told him to protect myself. He told me that i cannot carry a gun into any stores like this and that this qt does not allow any kind of firearms there. So i told him that i did not see any signs telling me that firearms are not allowed and if this is store policy then i will get my drink and move on with my buisness. After i said that he asked me for my id witch i provided to him, soon after i provided my id to him he told me to put my hands up and took my firearm away from me. I can understand why he did that, but still i didn't quite like it.

He soon started to tell me the "what if's" and i replied with my questions also at the same time understanding what he was saying. I asked him if he knew about open carry and he replied "no, and that he had never in his 21 years of being a police officer ever seen anyone open carry before ". So i told him everything I could remember about the constitution and rights and how i was not violating anything. He went off to say that he understands the second amendment but non of that is relevent right now, and soon after he said that he ran my name and it came back clean. So i asked him if I can buy my drink and recover my firearm and be on my way. So i paid for it and turned around and he was taking down my serial numbers and i asked him if i can leave. He told me that he was going to check on my gun to make sure it wasn't stolen.

We steped outside and i asked him something else that i cant remember right now sorry. But he told me that if i dont be quiet that he will take my firearm away from me put it away at the station until i can prove that it is mine and he would like to see me prove it is, So at that moment i pulled out my papers and showed him them. He still wouldn't let me be on my way ran my numbers they came back clean and wouldn't give me my gun back. I asked him why and he wouldn't reply, So he called my mom over talked to her and gave her my gun and clip.

Over all he waisted 30 mins of my time. He did however tell me that if he see's me with my gun on me again that he will take it away from me. Really just to try to scare me into not doing it anymore and it didn't work I still and always will OC. I know that he cant do that, but from now on I wont give any of my info away like that again. I knew not to give any info away but I still gave it to him. Ive never had any problems with law enforcement while OCing its always been a head nod or just a look.

This is my first negative OC encounter with a police officer. I am vary sure that it will not be the last.

But again I am sorry fellas for taking it down but it should be easier to read.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! You need to contact the Missouri Department of Public Safety and file a complaint. They know this is very illegal and that the "prove it's yours" game is unlawful search and seizure. This cop just admitted that he would be willing to break the law. If they are willing to threaten breaking the law, they are willing to act upon that threat.

This is exactly why we all need to carry some sort of recording device or phone when we have LEO encounters.

Said it before and I'll say it again: STL and KC LEOs think they know the law, think they are above the law, and are known for breaking the law. They will do everything in their ability, legal or not, to make your day hell when they can...to include blatantly violating your rights.

You folks need to learn, quickly I might add, that you DO NOT engage a LEO in conversation when they are on site for a call that might involve you. EVERYTHING you say and do at that point IS on the record and CAN be used against you in court. EVERYTHING the LEO says is hearsay unless you've recorded it and is thus inadmissable. Know your rights and absolutely DO NOT engage them in a conversation when they are out on a call that might involve you.

Citizen · Sep 22, 2010

Gunslinger said:
Who the hell is 'eb31' and where is his post? I see it quoted, but what happened to the original? As to the OP, file a complaint with the cop's internal affairs. Your rights were violated by some jackass on an ego trip. Stand up for them. You did nothing wrong, but now is the chance to do something extremely right. Good luck!

I notice that despite Statist31's advice, the poor OCer still had his gun illegally seized, and was threatened with additional unnecessary harassment in the form of having to get his gun from the police station. Then to add insult to injury the cop with who the OCer was cooperating gave the gun to mom. So much for cooperating with cops.

I wonder if CopKisser31 even read the whole post.

Oh, well. In any event,

Gabriel,

It looks like you were the latest victim of a Boobus badgius. I would make a formal written complaint, hitting the legal angles on the rights violations.

Citizen · Sep 22, 2010

Gunslinger said:
Who the hell is 'eb31'

Looks like he's a member of a police forum who strayed over here just to troll us.

I just came across our thread about it: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?81032-Police-Forum-Thread-on-the-Culver-s-5

cash50 · Sep 22, 2010

SavageOne said:
I have always wondered does 84-710 apply only to KC and STL or state wide?

It's hard to really tell. But I had a lawyer in a case involving this issue, he told me it was basically used statewide-specifically that it applied, or at least was being applied to me, in St. Charles.

ALOTAGLOCK · Sep 22, 2010

Okay back to point here. My question would be how do you know that the LEO was off duty? Was he working off duty at the Quik Trip? Reason for asking is why was he exerting authority off duty, unless he was working at the Quik Trip as an Off-duty job. As much as I love debating with Cshoff, he is right. You volunteered way too much.
If he is working as an advocate for Quik Trip, i.e. Off-duty security, he is more than allowed to use their policy as a stop. But, if he is just some cop on his way home wanting to push the badge, that’s a big no no. Using his authority on personal time, I have seen cops get hung out to dry by LEOs for crap like that. As I have made mention before I have loads of friends that are LEOs and often seek opinions from them to get the “LEO” perspective. I have heard of several stories of cops “misusing the badge” and only to be slapped down by the LEOs.
If he was truly off duty and not working this is a big violation and it should not go unreported. But you first need to clarify if he was truly off duty, or if he was working an off-duty job. I would start by calling that particular Quik Trip and asking if they hire off-duty LEOs for private security. Then I would establish it Quik Trip has a policy against OC. If all that comes out like, the cop was just busting your chops, and there is not QT policy, file a complaint with the local police department the cop was employed by.
And what area Quik Trip was it that this took place?

GabrielSchultz · Sep 22, 2010

ALOTAGLOCK said:
Okay back to point here. My question would be how do you know that the LEO was off duty? Was he working off duty at the Quik Trip? Reason for asking is why was he exerting authority off duty, unless he was working at the Quik Trip as an Off-duty job. As much as I love debating with Cshoff, he is right. You volunteered way too much.
If he is working as an advocate for Quik Trip, i.e. Off-duty security, he is more than allowed to use their policy as a stop. But, if he is just some cop on his way home wanting to push the badge, that’s a big no no. Using his authority on personal time, I have seen cops get hung out to dry by LEOs for crap like that. As I have made mention before I have loads of friends that are LEOs and often seek opinions from them to get the “LEO” perspective. I have heard of several stories of cops “misusing the badge” and only to be slapped down by the LEOs.
If he was truly off duty and not working this is a big violation and it should not go unreported. But you first need to clarify if he was truly off duty, or if he was working an off-duty job. I would start by calling that particular Quik Trip and asking if they hire off-duty LEOs for private security. Then I would establish it Quik Trip has a policy against OC. If all that comes out like, the cop was just busting your chops, and there is not QT policy, file a complaint with the local police department the cop was employed by.
And what area Quik Trip was it that this took place?

He told me that he was off duty and was employed by QT. I'm going to contact QT tomorrow and talk to them about this whole thing, and he was in uniform too, but he did clearly state that he was off duty and employed by QT. And this was at the QT on 24hwy and I 435 in kcmo

Citizen · Sep 22, 2010

GabrielSchultz said:
He told me that he was off duty and was employed by QT. I'm going to contact QT tomorrow and talk to them about this whole thing, and he was in uniform too, but he did clearly state that he was off duty and employed by QT. And this was at the QT on 24hwy and I 435 in kcmo

I don't know that I would talk to QT, except to get his name for a formal complaint to his department.

If he was wearing his cop uniform, it seems to me he is using his authority as a cop. Otherwise, why not just wear a security guard uniform?

All QT has to do is say, "No OC allowed. You're not welcome back." And, if they fuss to the officer, he just gives them some mumbo jumbo they will accept because they don't know any better.

I'm betting his department has clear rules for people working security on their own time, including not doing stupid stuff that would reflect badly on the department. Such may even be applicable all the time, not just when doing a side-job.

Your best angle is to hammer the rights violations in a formal complaint to his department. They will correct him faster than the store. With the store, you might have to do lots of explaining about the law, and counter the officer's assertions of what is and isn't allowed. The store won't know. But, his department will.

patriotthad · Sep 22, 2010

#1 Did you get name and badge number?
#2 How do you know he was an off duty cop?
If so, have you contacted his department or city/county attorney?

#3 Have you contacted your own attorney?

There was a federal case in New Mexico a few months ago which ruled that a person may not be detained for OC.

GabrielSchultz · Sep 22, 2010

patriotthad said:
#1 Did you get name and badge number?
#2 How do you know he was an off duty cop?
If so, have you contacted his department or city/county attorney?

#3 Have you contacted your own attorney?

There was a federal case in New Mexico a few months ago which ruled that a person may not be detained for OC.

#1 I dont remember his name but I did get his badge number (918) easy to remember
#2 He told me he was a off duty officer and he was being employed by QT (not to include his mini van he went to, to get a new battery for his radio)
#3 I have been trying to contact the department but have not got any reply yet, and I cant reach my state rep so im looking for someone else who can help me with this someguy named keven jamison?? know anything on him?

cshoff · Sep 22, 2010

GabrielSchultz said:
#1 I dont remember his name but I did get his badge number (918) easy to remember
#2 He told me he was a off duty officer and he was being employed by QT (not to include his mini van he went to, to get a new battery for his radio)
#3 I have been trying to contact the department but have not got any reply yet, and I cant reach my state rep so im looking for someone else who can help me with this someguy named keven jamison?? know anything on him?

Kevin Jamison is an attorney; probably the most well known 2nd Amendment attorney in the state. If you want Kevin to go after them on your behalf, I'll almost guarantee you he'll require a retainer, and it's VERY unlikely he'll offer you any advice over the phone whatsoever. That said, if you do decide to hire Kevin, you'll have a fine attorney.

Citizen · Sep 23, 2010

NavyLT said:
I wonder if the cop ran a check on mom before giving her the gun? Wouldn't it be a hoot if mom was a prohibited person and the cop provided her with a gun!

Mom wouldn't have to be a felon. The fact he gave it to mom without checking her out proves his lie all by itself. Good catch, NavyLT!

Freedom 1st · Sep 23, 2010

another question I might have

#1 I dont remember his name but I did get his badge number (918) easy to remember
#2 He told me he was a off duty officer and he was being employed by QT (not to include his mini van he went to, to get a new battery for his radio)
#3 I have been trying to contact the department but have not got any reply yet, and I cant reach my state rep so im looking for someone else who can help me with this someguy named keven jamison?? know anything on him?

Who was this officer contacting with this radio? QT corporate headquarters to see if they aprove of OC. It is of my opinion that unless the business is posted, it is gun friendly until proved otherwise. QT has every right to restrict carry of any kind if they so choose. But this to me sounds like an abuse of power by an over zealous LEO. Using the public paid for uniform, radio, and badge to push his own BS. Acting in LEO mode when he should of been security guard mode and protecting QT instead of harassing customers.
I wonder what LE would do if a bunch of security quards started pacing traffic, and issuing traffic tickets hand written on toilet paper? Yeah I know thats not really funny. But at the very least QT should have supplied the battery (not to mention the radio) since it was their business he was taking care of not the tax payers.
I would hesitate to call his actions illegal since I do not know every detail of the encounter. And I would hesitate to even say he was acting on behalf of the dept. he works for, since QT was footing the bill for his presence.
Kevin Jamison is top notch, I don't think you could find anyone better for the area. But you have to ask yourself if you are willing to PAY for what could be nothing more than maybe better training on the OC subject for the QT security guard/LEO.
I would have to agree that a formal complaint to his department MIGHT get the results you are hopefully looking for.

LMTD · Sep 27, 2010

When LEO's complain about bashing, they need to take a long hard look within and find these kinds of cops and edumacate them with a blanket party.

mobodyguard · Sep 27, 2010

kevin jamison

contact number 816 455 2669

Stoped by cop at QT

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