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Thread: Carry in Liquor Stores?

  1. #1
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    Carry in Liquor Stores?

    Have a NC member on another forum who swears there is sign on his fav liquor store forbidding carry, but best I can find from NC statutes, permit carry is only forbidden in places that sell for onsite consumption.

    What's up with that?

    - OS

  2. #2
    Regular Member Northerner's Avatar
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    ABC Stgore in West Clayton (near Walmart) has "NO OC/CC at all" posted at the door. However, the ABC nex to the Grocery Bag on Buffalo, doesn't have anything posted.

    I don't have the answer, but I was always under the impression that ABCs in NC are owned/operated by the Counties. After reading below, I am still not sure.

    ABC Commission - Brief History

    "In 1935 the North Carolina Legislature authorized the Governor to appoint a commission to study the question of control of alcoholic beverages for the purpose of making recommendations to the 1937 General Assembly. The commission examined two types of control under which spirituous liquor was being sold in other states, one being represented by a State Licensing system and the other by a State Monopoly system. After careful study, the Alcoholic Beverage Control bill was submitted to the General Assembly of 1937, and with a few changes was enacted into law. The Control Act provided for the establishment of a State Board of Control consisting of a Chairman and two associate members who would be appointed by the Governor of the State.

    The State Board of Control is today known as the North Carolina Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission (ABC). The Control Act also provides for a control plan under which no county or city in the State would be required to sell alcohol unless first approved by the voters. Today North Carolina is a "local option" state with 50 county and 118 municipal ABC boards that sell spirituous liquor at retail. In addition, other alcohol beverage sales may be legal at both on and off premise businesses depending on whether the majority of voters approved the alcohol issue.

    http://www.ncabc.com/faq/category.aspx
    Last edited by Northerner; 09-19-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Regular Member TheFreeman's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they're county run. Most of the ones that I've been too usually have "gun free/victim zone" signs up.

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    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
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    Concealed carry is prohibited by law, OC is not. Most ABC store are posted though.
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by sFe View Post
    Concealed carry is prohibited by law, OC is not. Most ABC store are posted though.
    I can NOT find that in NC statutes, only that:
    " 14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor."
    --------
    So, two questions:

    - Is this just "one of those things that everybody assumes is the law, but isn't" ?
    - Can any business put up a binding "no carry permitted" sign?

    - OS

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    One of the questions to ask is if an ABC store is state property or not. If they are private, than we need to find out. If they are state owned, than we can't do anything unless we change the law (since firearms aren't allowed on state property)
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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb31 View Post
    Recently changes to law allow for carry in state parks and other state areas/property's.
    Cite, please.

    I believe the change you refer to is on the federal level - carry is now allowed in national parks. As of last week, NC State parks are still posted - "Firearms Prohibited".
    Carry on!

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    (since firearms aren't allowed on state property)
    Can you cite this? I know that's true for some specific state properties, but not all.

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    Here's another question while we're on the subject: What about OC/CC in the license plate agency?

    It is privately owned but mandated by the state. My understanding is that carry is therefore legal.

    And it turns out good old South Hills mall in Cary (where one such agency is) is the only mall I've seen in a long time that doesn't post gun free

  10. #10
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Can you cite this? I know that's true for some specific state properties, but not all.
    any area prohibited by N.C.G.S. 14-269.3, 14-269.4, 14-277.2, or 120-32.1.

    (school grounds, areas where alcohol is sold and consumed, state property, legislative

    buildings, and public gatherings, such as parades)
    source: http://www.grnc.org/firearms.htm
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  11. #11
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    I have seen no law that says weapons on state property are illegal; The following quote is the only statute I see that relates:

    14‑269.4. Weapons on State property and in courthouses.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to possess, or carry, whether openly or concealed, any deadly weapon, not used solely for instructional or officially sanctioned ceremonial purposes in the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the Western Residence of the Governor, or on the grounds of any of these buildings, and in any building housing any court of the General Court of Justice. If a court is housed in a building containing nonpublic uses in addition to the court, then this prohibition shall apply only to that portion of the building used for court purposes while the building is being used for court purposes.
    This is very specific, and obviously would not apply to ABC stores.

    Is there a statute I'm missing?

  12. #12
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    than if thats the case, then we would be able to carry in an ABC store legally.

    I was under the impression that we couldn't carry on state property - I was wrong. Looks like if its not posted, carry away. I know the ABC stores in Greenville aren't posted.

    edit: just called the attorney generals office. They basically said that since alcohol isn't being consumed there, and as long as its not posted, then it should be legal. I left my contact info so an actual attorney call call me back, but that was from the law enforcement liaison, so (theoretically) she should know the laws.
    Last edited by elixin77; 09-21-2010 at 03:37 PM.
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    Couple of different issues going on here with ABC stores. In NC., all ABC stores are State property. they are administered by local ABC commissions, but the stores themselves are therefore considered state property.

    Therefore:

    Concealed carry under a permit is illegal in any ABC store by statute 14-415.11(c)

    "A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in . . . in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State. . . "


    As for Open Carry: there is no law against open carrying on state property, only the previsouly cited prohibition on carrying at the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the Western Residence of the Governor or in a courthouse.

    Even the posting of a sign does not create a criminal offense for open carrying as carrying past signage is only a crime if one is carrying concealed under an otherwise valid concealed carry permit.

    Short Version: yes, it is legal to open carry into an ABC store (no matter what is posted or written on the door). However, when you are asked to leave (and they can legally ask that you leave) if you don't, you can be charged with criminal trespass.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBurton72 View Post
    SNIP
    Short Version: yes, it is legal to open carry into an ABC store (no matter what is posted or written on the door). However, when you are asked to leave (and they can legally ask that you leave) if you don't, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
    I don't see how state property can legally be posted, or that they can ask you to leave, without legal support.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBurton72 View Post
    Even the posting of a sign does not create a criminal offense for open carrying as carrying past signage is only a crime if one is carrying concealed under an otherwise valid concealed carry permit.

    Short Version: yes, it is legal to open carry into an ABC store (no matter what is posted or written on the door). However, when you are asked to leave (and they can legally ask that you leave) if you don't, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
    If there is a sign banning weapons posted, and you enter, you could easily be charged and convicted with trespassing.

    "� 14‑159.13.� Second degree trespass.

    (a)������ Offense. � A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without authorization, he enters or remains on premises of another:

    (1)������ After he has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner, by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person; or

    (2)������ That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.

    (b)������ Classification. � Second degree trespass is a Class 3 misdemeanor. "

    I would say knowingly carrying past a weapons ban posted entrance would fall under section (a-2) of this G.S.

    You are no longer authorized to enter if you are not following posted signage. I don't think a DA would have a hard time convincing a judge of this. And your sentencing would probably be stiffer than someone violating similar signage regarding no shoes no shirt no service.

    So IMO you're giving bad advice here.

    Furthermore, I wholeheartedly agree with a business owner's right to select customers. Those who discriminate will be less likely to survive a competitive market.
    Last edited by Smith45acp; 09-22-2010 at 01:44 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBurton72 View Post
    Couple of different issues going on here with ABC stores. In NC., all ABC stores are State property. they are administered by local ABC commissions, but the stores themselves are therefore considered state property.

    Therefore:

    Concealed carry under a permit is illegal in any ABC store by statute 14-415.11(c)

    "A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in . . . in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State. . . "


    As for Open Carry: there is no law against open carrying on state property, only the previsouly cited prohibition on carrying at the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the Western Residence of the Governor or in a courthouse.
    This sounds correct about Open Carry being legal on state property unless someone else can come up with refuting statutes. That would be awesome, because you know most LEOs probably don't know this and neither would anyone working on State Property.

  17. #17
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    an attorney with the AG called me back, and told me that since alcohol isn't being consumed, and as long as its not posted, its technically legal. Just make sure the location isn't posted, because all our collective work states the following:
    -even if it is state property, the only state property we can't legally carry on is the governor's mansion and a few other places (court house, in particular)
    -as long as it's not posted, its legal
    -alcohol isn't being consumed, so it's legal

    TL;DR version: should be legal, no reason why its not (unless its posted)
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  18. #18
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I still want to know why state property not mentioned in law can be posted-who makes that decision, and what authority are they given to do so?

  19. #19
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    I still want to know why state property not mentioned in law can be posted-who makes that decision, and what authority are they given to do so?
    that is a good question. does anybody know?

    i'm at a bit of a quandary here. i don't drink or go to abc stores, but it bothers me that a public ran property can deny our constitutional rights. its like "whites only water fountain" in the court house

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