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Thread: HELP!!! Carry at Arlington National Cemetery?

  1. #1
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    HELP!!! Carry at Arlington National Cemetery?

    Not specifically OC related, but, I will be traveling to Arlington National Cemetery this weekend to take part in the GSM ceremony. I've given myself a wicked headache trying to find out if it is legal to carry there.
    I see some posts that suggest it is not. But I have not seen anything solid and I'm not very good at deciphering legal mumbo-jumbo.

    Can I get some help from somebody who has been there before or understands the legal talk?

    Thank You!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rady8um View Post
    Not specifically OC related, but, I will be traveling to Arlington National Cemetery this weekend to take part in the GSM ceremony. I've given myself a wicked headache trying to find out if it is legal to carry there.
    I see some posts that suggest it is not. But I have not seen anything solid and I'm not very good at deciphering legal mumbo-jumbo.

    Can I get some help from somebody who has been there before or understands the legal talk?

    Thank You!
    No carry allowed. OC or CC (Federal Property)
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Thanks, I was getting that feeling, but wasn't sure.

    Seems kind of screwed up that a place filled with our nation's finest individuals is off limits regarding one of our most basic human rights. F#%king .gov bull---t
    Last edited by rady8um; 09-19-2010 at 09:24 PM.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    No carry allowed. OC or CC (Federal Property)
    Ed, could you please cite the law? I don't think saying that it's "federal property" is clear enough.

    I've wanted to complete my "parks, forests, cemeteries" thread with the ANC rules for a while now. I just haven't been able to find them.

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken (and that has happened a time or two), Arlington Cemetery is a military site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    If I'm not mistaken (and that has happened a time or two), Arlington Cemetery is a military site.
    We have had this conversation several times before. Several posts in the past have provided the links verifying that Arlington is the only National Cemetary that is owned ans "operated" by the Department of Defense as opposed to the Veterans Administration. We've also had limks posted to the various and sundry portions of the USC (United States Code) regarding when, where, how, why and under what strange, arcane and limited circumstances one can either posses, carry, or shoot firearms of various type on federal, military, or other national facilities. I'm too lazy to do the search; someone else can do some leg work this time.

    The point being, Arlington will not permit you to carry. Not even to the parking area.

    While the chances of being searched are probably quite low, my personal position is that I am not willing to run the risk.

    If you ask nicely, there may be some folks who post here on OCDO who work/live nearby to Arlington and may be willing to hold your firearm(s) for you. Some of them may even be willing to give them back.

    Do not try to park at the Pentagon lot and take Metro to Arlington if you have a firearm with you. It's also a restricted area and they do patrol with dogs trained to snif for powder and other chemical residue.

    If you are going to park at some other Metro station, please consider finding a very discrete place besides the Metro parking lot to remove your firearm and put it in the trunk. There are folks who make their living watching to see who puts stuff in the trunk and then takes the train.

    stay safe.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rady8um View Post
    Thanks, I was getting that feeling, but wasn't sure.

    Seems kind of screwed up that a place filled with our nation's finest individuals is off limits regarding one of our most basic human rights. F#%king .gov bull---t
    Yeah. The men buried there didn't like firearms much, I guess.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    We have had this conversation several times before. Several posts in the past have provided the links verifying that Arlington is the only National Cemetary that is owned ans "operated" by the Department of Defense as opposed to the Veterans Administration. We've also had limks posted to the various and sundry portions of the USC (United States Code) regarding when, where, how, why and under what strange, arcane and limited circumstances one can either posses, carry, or shoot firearms of various type on federal, military, or other national facilities. I'm too lazy to do the search; someone else can do some leg work this time.
    Yes it's the Dept. of Defense, more specifically it's the Dept. of the Army.

    "32 CFR 553.22 Visitors' rules for the Arlington National Cemetery" lays out the visitors' rules, for the Arlington National Cemetery, but says nothing about weapons, firearms, knives, tools, or anything of the sort.

    It may have been discussed here before, but I haven't ever found the actual USC or CFR reference that prohibits firearms within the ANC or that even grants that authority to anyone. I've also checked AR 210-190 and AR 290-5. Those documents reference TM 10-287, but I can't find a soft-copy of it on-line.

    There are sections of 32 CFR part 552 which authorize the commander of specific military reservations to publish regulations on privately owned firearms; some regulations prohibit the possession of firearms on specific military reservations, but the ANC does not appear to fall under that category.

    I understand it's a complicated subject. The authority could come from any number of sources, USC, CFR, or "public law" (whatever that is)...

    I've heard that the commander of any military installation can pretty much institute and enforce any regulations they want; but I've not seen a citation to authority for that, either.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    Ed, could you please cite the law? I don't think saying that it's "federal property" is clear enough.

    I've wanted to complete my "parks, forests, cemeteries" thread with the ANC rules for a while now. I just haven't been able to find them.
    I know this is a necro post, but the question has come up again.

    http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/doc...of_Fireams.pdf
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I haven't researched this issue specifically, but it is my understanding that there is a person identified as the "provost" of the Military District of Washington who can give approval for private carrying of firearms in the enemy-occupied estate of my distant cousin (Mary Custis Lee). They may not really care, but it would be good as a defense on a criminal charge to be able to say you'd called over there and relied on oral permission (even if it took the form of lack of a specific objection). If I were interested in that, I'd call the Pentagon general number and ask for the number of the Office of the Provost. Dealing with federal offices is always a matter of following a "linked list" or chain of phone numbers, sometimes having to start over, until you find the person who can do what you want.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Yeah. The men buried there didn't like firearms much, I guess.
    And of those that did, they won't mind today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiatuck View Post
    Yes it's the Dept. of Defense, more specifically it's the Dept. of the Army.

    "32 CFR 553.22 Visitors' rules for the Arlington National Cemetery" lays out the visitors' rules, for the Arlington National Cemetery, but says nothing about weapons, firearms, knives, tools, or anything of the sort.

    It may have been discussed here before, but I haven't ever found the actual USC or CFR reference that prohibits firearms within the ANC or that even grants that authority to anyone. I've also checked AR 210-190 and AR 290-5. Those documents reference TM 10-287, but I can't find a soft-copy of it on-line.

    There are sections of 32 CFR part 552 which authorize the commander of specific military reservations to publish regulations on privately owned firearms; some regulations prohibit the possession of firearms on specific military reservations, but the ANC does not appear to fall under that category.

    I understand it's a complicated subject. The authority could come from any number of sources, USC, CFR, or "public law" (whatever that is)...

    I've heard that the commander of any military installation can pretty much institute and enforce any regulations they want; but I've not seen a citation to authority for that, either.
    TM 10-287 is Tech Manual 10-287 Administration, Operation, and Maintenance, Army Cemeteries, September 1982.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 05-07-2013 at 03:34 AM.

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    Re: HELP!!! Carry at Arlington National Cemetery?

    If you google fire arms carry at Arlington national, there is a pdf file of a memo, that states I believe they follow national park rules. It was kinda hard to make out. I have the pdf file, if anyone wants me to send it there way. Pm me.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    If you google fire arms carry at Arlington national, there is a pdf file of a memo, that states I believe they follow national park rules. It was kinda hard to make out. I have the pdf file, if anyone wants me to send it there way. Pm me.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Arlington and one other national cemetery are under the control of the Dept. of the Army. All others are managed by NPS or the Department of Veterans Affairs/National Cemetery Administration (NCA)

    On NPS cemeteries guns are okay - not so on DoA or DVA/NCA cemeteries.

    "In general, this policy applies to all visitors, employees, contractors, or any other person entering an Army National Cemetery (Arlington National Cemetery, Arlington, VA, and the Soldiers' and Airmens' Home National Cemetery, Washington, DC)."
    http://http://www.arlingtoncemetery....of_Fireams.pdf

    The Department of the Army administers Arlington National Cemetery and United States Soldiers' and Airmens' Home National Cemetery. The Department of Veterans Affairs or the National Park Service (NPS) administers the other national cemeteries. The NPS administers Arlington House (the Custis-Lee Mansion) and its grounds as a memorial to Robert E. Lee.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlingt...ional_Cemetery


    National Cemeteries that come under Dept of Veterans Affairs.

    38 CFR 1.218 1.218 Security and law enforcement at VA (Veterans Affairs) facilities.
    (a) Authority and rules of conduct. Pursuant to 38 U.S.C. 901,
    the following rules and regulations apply at all property under the charge and control of VA

    (and not under the charge and control of the General Services Administration) and to all persons entering in or on such property. The head of the facility is charged with the responsibility for the enforcement of these rules and regulations and shall cause these rules and regulations to be posted in a conspicuous place on the property.

    (13) Weapons and explosives. No person while on property shall carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or
    explosives, either openly or concealed, except for official purposes.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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