Reach out to MPD?

I like the idea of giving them a chance to apologize for what was done. Saying that their actions in this, their ability to admit fault, etc, will dictate your actions - I think that's very wise.

A Chance??? They HAD their chance after they did this SAME THING to Yates last year, they lost their chance!

But I see Nik wrote it depends on "how Madison Police rectify the situation."

I say, if the Mayor, the Police Chief, the officers in question, and the armed citizens of Wisconsin Carry can all meet outside city hall, and the Mayor and Chief state the officers "acted stupidly," (Obama's words, not mine) as well as stating to the press that Madison WELCOMES ALL open carriers AND states that any further action such as this will result in IMMEDIATE TERMINATION (because they (PD) did this last year as well), then I might be convinced to suggest WCI forgo a lawsuit.

Anything less than the paragraph above, is useless (take them to court)!

I'm not from Wisconsin, but I feel the need to insert an opinion here. Apologies up front for intruding...

Let's put it this way: When any of us ends up in court for any reason, we are expected to have known the law so as not to have broken it. We have all heard, over and over, that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

When considering someone who's JOB is based on enforcing those laws, their knowledge and understanding of of the law should be encyclopedic compared to ours.

The people have delegated them some authority to enforce laws, and the ONLY way they can do that is to know the laws - not guess at them or make them up as they go along.

If a Law Enforcement Officer breaks a law, ignorance of the law is no excuse for them, either.

In fact, they should be held to a higher standard than Joe Public in knowing the laws, since the permission to use the limited authority we granted them to do the job we delegated to them requires intimate knowledge and understanding of the law.

What was the question again? :lol:

Some of you may have respect for LEO's, but I have nothing BUT extreme loathing for them. They aint your friend, they are out to put us LAW BREAKERS in the clink...NOTHING MORE.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

well, if they want to 'pollogise to me, they could send me a shiny new 10 mm 1911 style handgun.

There is a sentence I use when I have a LEO hellbent on trying to violate my rights, I simply ask "Did you not take an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States? Then why are you trying to break that oath by violating my civil rights?"
9 times out of 10 it breaks their current mission, by making them think about it for a second, and I typically get a half-assed apology from the officer afterwards.

I suggest some other people try that route and see if it works for them too since I have had success with it.

don't talk to the police.

Nutczak said:

There is a sentence I use when I have a LEO hellbent on trying to violate my rights, I simply ask "Did you not take an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States? Then why are you trying to break that oath by violating my civil rights?"
9 times out of 10 it breaks their current mission, by making them think about it for a second, and I typically get a half-assed apology from the officer afterwards.

I suggest some other people try that route and see if it works for them too since I have had success with it.

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

McX said:

don't talk to the police.

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I Talk, I just don't answer several of the questions that they may ask, I typically answer one of their questions with another question of my own but making very sure I do not accidentally provide false information.
If asked for ID, My typical reply is "Why do you feel the need for it?" If asked "Where are you coming from/going to?" I point the direction I am facing and say "That way" if asked where I am going, then if asked where I am coming from, I point in the direction behind me.
If asked If I have ID, I answer "yes I do" (if I actually have it with me), but I do not provide it. Then when they ask for it, I politely refuse stating there is no reason unless I am operating a vehicle upon public roadways since this is not a "stop and identify state"

My last "Stop and identify" stop was on my Snowmobile, I had no ID with me at the time. And it ticked him off to no end. He was stating "How am I supposed to know that this snowmobile isn't stolen?" I then asked if there was a report of a stolen snowmobile that matches the description of the one I am riding. He said "No" so I then stated "then I guess it isn't stolen, do you stop everyone to see if their sled is stolen with no reports of stolen sleds?"

A LEO's contact with me is typically an aggravating experience for them because I do not freely waive my rights like they have gotten used to from so many others,

glock34 said:

some of you may have respect for leo's, but i have nothing but extreme loathing for them. They aint your friend, they are out to put us law breakers in the clink...nothing more.

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agreed

Tomas said:

I'm not from Wisconsin, but I feel the need to insert an opinion here. Apologies up front for intruding...

Let's put it this way: When any of us ends up in court for any reason, we are expected to have known the law so as not to have broken it. We have all heard, over and over, that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

When considering someone who's JOB is based on enforcing those laws, their knowledge and understanding of of the law should be encyclopedic compared to ours.

The people have delegated them some authority to enforce laws, and the ONLY way they can do that is to know the laws - not guess at them or make them up as they go along.

If a Law Enforcement Officer breaks a law, ignorance of the law is no excuse for them, either.

In fact, they should be held to a higher standard than Joe Public in knowing the laws, since the permission to use the limited authority we granted them to do the job we delegated to them requires intimate knowledge and understanding of the law.

What was the question again? :lol:

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Thomas seems like true words of wisdom. If we do something wrong a fine is what we recieve and our appoligies do us no good. LEO spend their working career dealing with the laws, and enforcing them, they should know them, after all is that not their job? I would not last long at my place of employment if I could not perform properly. They are no different. The problem is when they make a mistake it is someones rights that get violated, unacceptable.

johnny amish said:

Thomas seems like true words of wisdom. If we do something wrong a fine is what we recieve and our appoligies do us no good. LEO spend their working career dealing with the laws, and enforcing them, they should know them, after all is that not their job? I would not last long at my place of employment if I could not perform properly. They are no different. The problem is when they make a mistake it is someones rights that get violated, unacceptable.

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I don't think there's any way I could conceivably agree with you and Tomas any more.

Reach out to MPD.......... AIN'T NEVER GONNA HAPPEN

If the MPD wanted to respect us and "reach out" to us, today would have been apology day. Given that today was attack in the media, threaten to mail out MORE citations, we were set up, etc., I'll consider the MPD's actions to be a continuation of the original crime.

I say hit that town with all you got. Five or six member groups spread out ALL OVER TOWN. Lock your wallet/ID in the car, carry only a little cash and we'll meet up at the jail as they bring us in. We refuse to identify, make them hold us, and then get a judge to admonish the ENTIRE department.

As an aside, EVERYBODY write the NRA, and WI-FORCE. IF they are for gun rights they MUST ACT NOW. If they remain silent, then they are showing the are useless and are hanging themselves.

Write letters to the editors of EVERY PAPER, fox news, EVERYBODY you can think of, now IS the time to act.

Support The 2nd said:

If the MPD wanted to respect us and "reach out" to us, today would have been apology day. Given that today was attack in the media, threaten to mail out MORE citations, we were set up, etc., I'll consider the MPD's actions to be a continuation of the original crime.

I say hit that town with all you got. Five or six member groups spread out ALL OVER TOWN. Lock your wallet/ID in the car, carry only a little cash and we'll meet up at the jail as they bring us in. We refuse to identify, make them hold us, and then get a judge to admonish the ENTIRE department.

As an aside, EVERYBODY write the NRA, and WI-FORCE. IF they are for gun rights they MUST ACT NOW. If they remain silent, then they are showing the are useless and are hanging themselves.

Write letters to the editors of EVERY PAPER, fox news, EVERYBODY you can think of, now IS the time to act.

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+10000


The video said we were wearing 'wires'. I recorded it with my Blackberry smart phone. I only turned on the recorder when they started demanding ID.

We planned a confrontation? Nope! I hadn't met some of these folks before so I drove to Madison to meet them.

They might change the tickets to disorderly conduct? Even better! How ridiculous!

Look at the other thread, listen to the recording, you will hear we did all we could to let them back away.

They escalated it. They arrested 2 of my friends and intimidated myself and 2 others.

They have a pattern of abusing peoples rights.

Back in the '60s the police got a bad wrap because of the actions of a few officers. The MPD doesn't realize the damage they are doing to themselves and their fellow officers.

The failure of the MPD leadership to condemn the actions of these officers is going to effect the perception of the department for YEARS.

Waste of time

Trust me when I tell you this, "reaching out" to rogue policemen and rogue police departments is a complete and total waste of time. I know this from personal experience. In their minds, they are in control of all situations, rights be damned.
The only way to get them to amend their rogue behavior into lawful behavior is by the force of law and lawsuits. They need to be bitc_ slapped until they are FORCED to get it. I will tell you all something else, successfully suing them is not quite good enough. There needs to be a call for the officers involved to be terminated and they should be banned from having the authority of law again and their superiors need to be disciplined as well . Tyrannical officers like these are a major threat to all civilians, open carriers or not. Does anyone think that their unlawful behavior is restricted to just open carriers? These types of ego tripping authoritarians no doubt abuse people and their rights on a daily basis and need to be removed, permanently from any position of authority. Only through such actions will we ever get the LEO community to respect civil rights. Rant concluded.

cops the tv show is not for the purpose of entertainment it's soul purpose is indoctrination of the masses into seeing rights violations and come to beleive this is lawful and acceptable behavior by leo"s , same goes for all the judge shows. I used to watch em until it hit me.

comp45acp said:

Are you serious?? They know the law they chose to violate it. Now they can pay. They must get the message that they do not get to choose which rights citizens get to exercise. The time for "reaching out" expired when they violated our member's rights.

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This time instead of settleing out of court, the police should lose thier jobs and maybe spend some time in jail. Thats what should have happened in Racine. If this would have happened in Racine then maybe the harrassment would not have taken place in (the peoples republic of Madison).

Reach out?

I think the MPD needs to reach out to us, not us to them. They are the ones guilty of not playing by the rules. Their own rules at that.

The idea reminds me of this quote...

“Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute,”

I know this thread is only trying to patch up a few differences, but I just can't go along with it.