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Thread: Holster cant... who made the FBI the standard?!?

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Holster cant... who made the FBI the standard?!?

    Looking around for a good-quality holster for my Tanfoglio... seems everyone & their brother only make "FBI cant" style holster with the grip-forward angle. Am I the only person on the planet who thinks the human wrist was never meant to bend like that? I'd like to find something that was straight up & down, or ideally slightly muzzle-forward, but I can't find a durn thing. Wearing my gun about where my wallet would be just is not comfortable for me.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I currently use a BlackHawk CQC Serpa for my XDM 40. It comes with a Hip Paddle and a Belt Attachment and it is adjustable. It can be tilted forward, back and straight up and down. The only downside of it is that it seems to stick out and get in the way a lot more than any leather holster I've seen.

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    To the best of my knowledge, the "cant" was based upon the slight forward bend at the waist when reaching to acquire the grip. The forward bend allows the firearm to be carried at a higher position on the hip and the forward cant helps the draw. I carried that way for over 27 years. It may seem a little "different" at first but one gets accustomed quickly.

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    Holster cant... who made the FBI the standard?!?

    Why, the FBI, of course. They were the authoritay on everything cool back in the day. Kinda like "special operators" today.

    Heh. If the FBI done it, it must be good. Right?

    After all that sarcasm, I do have to say having some forward tilt does make it a little easier to get a grip and draw from the high positioning where the triggerguard is at the belt line.

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    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I currently use a BlackHawk CQC Serpa for my XDM 40. It comes with a Hip Paddle and a Belt Attachment and it is adjustable. It can be tilted forward, back and straight up and down. The only downside of it is that it seems to stick out and get in the way a lot more than any leather holster I've seen.

    I have 3 of the same holster and LOVE the versatility of them. I was shocked to see how well it retains and being able to try all different positions was key for me. I did not have the same issues with it sticking out until I put the paddle on it.
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotty View Post
    I have 3 of the same holster and LOVE the versatility of them. I was shocked to see how well it retains and being able to try all different positions was key for me. I did not have the same issues with it sticking out until I put the paddle on it.
    Yeah, I always wear it with the paddle. I've learned to walk with it and not run in to much over the past year, though. Also, if anyone is finding the hip paddle a bit uncomfortable, try taking a small piece of neoprene (I got mine from a $3 wetsuit from St. Vincent's) and cutting it to fit then use some medical tape to attach it to the paddle. It gives you a bit of cushion and the tape is cloth and sticks well.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    Yeah, I always wear it with the paddle. I've learned to walk with it and not run in to much over the past year, though. Also, if anyone is finding the hip paddle a bit uncomfortable, try taking a small piece of neoprene (I got mine from a $3 wetsuit from St. Vincent's) and cutting it to fit then use some medical tape to attach it to the paddle. It gives you a bit of cushion and the tape is cloth and sticks well.
    I'm not too fond of the paddle. To me, it seems to clamp on so tite that it's a pita to remove the holster. That's a good thing for retention, but for everyday use, no thanks. I stuck with the belt loop option. I'm glad that Blackhawk gave the user two options.

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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    I wish they'd come out with one for the XDm already!

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    Regular Member SargentMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    I wish they'd come out with one for the XDm already!
    The full size XD Serpa holster will hold the XDm. Not sure if the compact will, but I don't see any particular reason that it wouldn't work.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Looking around for a good-quality holster for my Tanfoglio... seems everyone & their brother only make "FBI cant" style holster with the grip-forward angle. Am I the only person on the planet who thinks the human wrist was never meant to bend like that? I'd like to find something that was straight up & down, or ideally slightly muzzle-forward, but I can't find a durn thing. Wearing my gun about where my wallet would be just is not comfortable for me.
    Contact Dave Workman.

    http://www.danddgunleather.com/

    He not only writes but also is a holster maker. He can make it to whatever cant you want. Be prepared to pay more than an Off The Shelf holster but not all that much more than a good Galco, Safariland, or Bianchi.
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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SargentMac View Post
    The full size XD Serpa holster will hold the XDm. Not sure if the compact will, but I don't see any particular reason that it wouldn't work.
    Reviews I've read say that the XDm doesn't fit correctly in the regular XD holster. I've heard of them actually coming out of the holster under some circumstances.

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    Regular Member SargentMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    Reviews I've read say that the XDm doesn't fit correctly in the regular XD holster. I've heard of them actually coming out of the holster under some circumstances.
    I'd heard something about a little forward/rearward movement, but that it was minor and did not affect retention. Take your XDm into your local shop and try it out. Then let us know how it goes.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SargentMac View Post
    I'd heard something about a little forward/rearward movement, but that it was minor and did not affect retention. Take your XDm into your local shop and try it out. Then let us know how it goes.
    It's not uncommon for a little of this movement to be present with the serpa, or for other kydex holsters as well. I have a Serpa for my Sig and a Blade-Tech for my CZ. Both exhibit this for/aft wobble. It was really bad with an uncle mike's kydex I bought for my Sig but I used a heat gun to put a couple of "dimples" where the top of the slide fit. One on each side of the front sight groove. Tightened it right up without changing the rest of the holster's features. When doing this patience is important. Don't heat the kydex too fast.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    Forbus makes one or two you can clock to a better angle

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    I wish they'd come out with one for the XDm already!
    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I currently use a BlackHawk CQC Serpa for my XDM 40...

    There's a little front to back play, but it isn't coming out without my permission. =]

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    Regular Member SargentMac's Avatar
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    I carry my Glock 23 in a Serpa on duty, and then a compact Serpa on a paddle when I'm not in uniform.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Show me where I can get a serpa holster for a Tanfoglio
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Show me where I can get a serpa holster for a Tanfoglio
    According to Blackhawk's site, you can't.

    Here are some options for the Tangoglio that were custom made by Blade Tech. No retention like the SERPA but better than "dangling it in your pants".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SargentMac View Post
    I'd heard something about a little forward/rearward movement, but that it was minor and did not affect retention. Take your XDm into your local shop and try it out. Then let us know how it goes.
    Update...
    Tried out the Blackhawk Serpa on my XDm today. It is SLOPPPPY! Reason being, the XD slide is squared off and the XDm slide is tapered toward the top, so it doesn't fit nice and snug like the XD does.

    Went with the Blackhawk pancake.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Holster cant... who made the FBI the standard?!?

    Why, the FBI, of course. They were the authoritay on everything cool back in the day. Kinda like "special operators" today.

    Heh. If the FBI done it, it must be good. Right?

    After all that sarcasm, I do have to say having some forward tilt does make it a little easier to get a grip and draw from the high positioning where the triggerguard is at the belt line.
    "Borrowed" this from a holster maker's website. It gives an explanation of the "why". It was most likely adopted by the FBI as one of their "standards" for approved holsters.

    "1) An angled cant, such as the "FBI", is most common on holsters worn behind the hip on the strong side. This angle puts the grip of the gun "into" the small of the back and offers better concealment, superior comfort and matches the arms natural range of motion while drawing the weapon from this location. This assists in a smoother and faster draw."
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    I'm not too fond of the paddle. To me, it seems to clamp on so tite that it's a pita to remove the holster. That's a good thing for retention, but for everyday use, no thanks. I stuck with the belt loop option. I'm glad that Blackhawk gave the user two options.
    For extra retention when using the belt loop: Belt through 1 slot on serpa, next through belt loop on pants and then through last slot on serpa

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Cook View Post
    For extra retention when using the belt loop: Belt through 1 slot on serpa, next through belt loop on pants and then through last slot on serpa
    Thanks for the heads up, but I've found the errors of my ways and switched to the paddle. It holds the pistol closer to the body and doesn't flop around.

    And you dug up a 3 year old thread. May this thread again R.I.P.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Holster cant... who made the FBI the standard?!?

    Why, the FBI, of course. They were the authoritay on everything cool back in the day. Kinda like "special operators" today.

    Heh. If the FBI done it, it must be good. Right?

    After all that sarcasm, I do have to say having some forward tilt does make it a little easier to get a grip and draw from the high positioning where the triggerguard is at the belt line.
    When you send out "spec's" to buy a couple thousand holsters I guess you have the right to "set the standard".

    I actually like the design but opinions vary.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, the "cant" was based upon the slight forward bend at the waist when reaching to acquire the grip. The forward bend allows the firearm to be carried at a higher position on the hip and the forward cant helps the draw. I carried that way for over 27 years. It may seem a little "different" at first but one gets accustomed quickly.
    +1

    The point of the cant is that when you are taking the aggressive stance (step forward and lean forward) then the holster is at the proper angle for drawing. It also has the added benefit of making it very difficult for someone to come up behind you and pulling your firearm.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    +1

    The point of the cant is that when you are taking the aggressive stance (step forward and lean forward) then the holster is at the proper angle for drawing. It also has the added benefit of making it very difficult for someone to come up behind you and pulling your firearm.
    The cant also has to do with vehicle carry for officers. The cant allow the gun to be carried comfortably in a vehicle while still allowing draw from the vehicle. Actually a reverse cant is much faster and more comfortable draw but is not practical in a vehicle. Reverse cant puts the gun but against the seat firmly making draw almost impossible. Straight up is not much better. Forward cant also makes a gun grab more difficult from behind.

    I believe at one time LA county sheriff's dept was issuing a reverse cant holster for some officers. Many of those have shown up on the surplus market.

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