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Thread: Puyallup Fair CC ok?

  1. #1
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Puyallup Fair CC ok?

    I will be heading the the Puyallup fair in a couple days and was hoping some of you have already been and could give me some advise on there policies. I have not been to the fair in about 8 years and can not remember there polices, or if there is a pat down or anything to get through the gate. Due to the weather I will probably be CC only to keep my XD dry. I would like to have it mainly for walking back to my car at night but also don't want to try and take it and have it ruin my day. My only other concern is rides. If I am going to be going on rides I'm not sure if it is physically going to get in my way or not. Basically I am not sure if I should take it with me or not, any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    From what I've seen on other sites, a private organization is running the fair so they can make whatever rules. The worst that can happen is that you get told to leave. Otherwise, CC securely with a holster with retention and have fun!

  3. #3
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    No pat down when I went last week. Enjoy the fair.

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    Legal versus Rule....

    Just like going to a game....

    No OC - they'll just ask you to leave.

    CC - no metal detectors, no pat downs but doesn't mean you want to make yourself obvious (or be one of those nervous types).

    It's not illegal in the sense you are not violating RCW (not a bar or federal property, etc). As a ticket buyer to enter - you agree to follow their "rules" - one which is to not have "illegal firearms".

    As mentioned if you are discovered you will be asked to leave and then if you don't they can charge you with trespass.

    Some gates are manned by LEO's just standing by. Don't be obvious - remember concealed means concealed. If you are planning to ride then ensure your firearm is secured for that rides, etc.

    I saw a funny post about losing a firearm while on a ride..... I'll have to see if I can find that.

    They do search bags and such for obvious things (outside food and those nasty homemade bombs).

    If you need the RCW do a search for OC/CC at baseball, football games.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    http://tinyurl.com/2322cva

    In order to make your visit to the Fair an enjoyable experience, we appreciate your compliance with our policies noted below.
    These items may not be brought into the facility:
    • Open containers
    • Alcoholic beverages
    • Controlled substances
    • Weapons
    • Bicycles
    • Animals (except aid or show animals)
    • Skates, roller blades, skateboards
    • Unauthorized vehicles
    The following are not allowed:
    • Disruptive behavior or unlawful acts
    • Solicitation, distribution, or selling of product outside of a contracted booth
    • Scalping or re-sale of tickets
    Personal items brought onto the facilities may be subject to search.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    That's funny!

    "Unlawful acts" are not allowed!

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    It's not illegal in the sense you are not violating RCW (not a bar or federal property, etc). As a ticket buyer to enter - you agree to follow their "rules" - one which is to not have "illegal firearms".
    Or, as you've agreed to the rules when you bought the ticket, and chose to ignore them, you are de facto trespassing and could be arrested and charged.

    And it's not illegal firearms. It's "weapons".

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    trespass...

    So, as I understand it... I NOT being a lawyer and not giving out "legal advice" Just my "internet recommendation" of what I have seen....

    Trespass is mostly used if you have been given a warning not to return or asked to leave and you either come back or don't leave. This issue has been discussed before from what I remember.

    From all other postings I have seen the facility just wants you to leave - I'm sure they can press the issue (especially if you make them).

    Take it for what it is - free speculation.

    If anyone has legal standing then feel free to chime in.

    But bottomline: concealed means concealed.





    Here's an example - posted by Bob Warden and M1Gunr:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...light=trespass
    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places €” Local laws and ordinances €” Exceptions €” Penalty.
    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW
    9.41.070 [CPL holder] or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060[LEO].

    So if you have a CPL, it is legal for you to carry in Key Arena and in the Tacoma Dome. The other question would be whether or not a private entity leasing the facility could legally enforce a private rule against carrying. Based on theabove statute, an argument can be made that CPL holders have an affirmativeright to carry in stadiums andconvention centersoperated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, and that rules to the contrary are null. In fact, the language of the statute seems to give CPL holders the same standing as LEOs in such places.


    The Tacoma Dome & Cheney Stadium are owned and operated by the city of Tacoma. They are trying to use City of Sequim v PNSPA as a defense as well as Cherry v Seattle.

    When they lease out the facility the agreement their customers is that weapons are not allowed. You can't be cited for having the weapon per the RCW but they can ask you to leave or be cited for trespass.

    I have yet to be patted down or checked at the Dome or Cheney Stadium.


    The Attorney General (Rob McKenna) under AGO 2008 No. 8
    Downlaoded here: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...;sa=view;id=58

    Stated that Washington cities cannot enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities. See page 5 for more info on trespass.


    This defense could be used at the Freedom Fair and other events on city property.

    The three Tacoma letters: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=3
    Last edited by oldkim; 09-20-2010 at 06:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    "Unlawful acts" are not allowed!
    So no misbehaving in the sheep barns!!!!!
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    So no misbehaving in the sheep barns!!!!!
    I think you made some nervous here with that comment
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    You also have to remember that there will be a few bands at the fair, so they may claim that it is an "Outdoor Music Festival" for RCW 70.108.150.

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    They don't need to. It's private property. They can do whatever they want.

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    You also have to remember that there will be a few bands at the fair, so they may claim that it is an "Outdoor Music Festival" for RCW 70.108.150.
    It doesn't even come close to the definition of an "Outdoor Music Festival" as defined in RCW 70.80.020

  14. #14
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    I was CC there on Monday and there were no searches/pat downs/metal detectors, etc. The only year they had beefed up security was 2001(right after 9/11).

  15. #15
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    As deanf stated
    Or, as you've agreed to the rules when you bought the ticket, and chose to ignore them, you are de facto trespassing and could be arrested and charged.
    Based on this...If you had to defend your life, and use your firearm at the fair, what would the potential for them charging you with trespassing be?

    IMO, it would obviously be worth the charges. You would be alive. How does that go...Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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    I kind of hate to bring back a thread from last year, but given that it's fair time and this was the first weekend, would be nice to get some active reporting.

  17. #17
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Or, as you've agreed to the rules when you bought the ticket, and chose to ignore them, you are de facto trespassing and could be arrested and charged.

    And it's not illegal firearms. It's "weapons".

    That would include no pocket knives if you are correct.

    Add: if arrested on criminal trespass I would fight with "void for vagueness" at least try! I know their rules aren't laws but still they would be vague in a person knowing what they define as a weapon, and what “illegal activity” was if I were legally carrying a firearm, or pocket knife.
    Last edited by jbone; 09-14-2011 at 07:09 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    You also have to remember that there will be a few bands at the fair, so they may claim that it is an "Outdoor Music Festival" for RCW 70.108.150.
    70.108.020
    Definitions.


    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    (2) "Promoter" means any person or other legal entity issued a permit to conduct an outdoor music festival.

    (3) "Applicant" means the promoter who has the right of control of the conduct of an outdoor music festival who applies to the appropriate legislative authority for a license to hold an outdoor music festival.

    (4) "Issuing authority" means the legislative body of the local governmental unit where the site for an outdoor music festival is located.

    (5) "Participate" means to knowingly provide or deliver to the festival site supplies, materials, food, lumber, beverages, sound equipment, generators, or musical entertainment and/or to attend a music festival. A person shall be presumed to have knowingly provided as that phrase is used herein after he has been served with a court order.
    [1971 ex.s. c 302 21.]

    Is Puyallup a "government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds"

  19. #19
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Oh hell! I just answered my own question: "Puyallup is home to the Puyallup Fair, the largest annual privately run fair in Washington" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puyallup,_Washington
    Last edited by jbone; 09-14-2011 at 10:07 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    70.108.020
    Definitions.


    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    (2) "Promoter" means any person or other legal entity issued a permit to conduct an outdoor music festival.

    (3) "Applicant" means the promoter who has the right of control of the conduct of an outdoor music festival who applies to the appropriate legislative authority for a license to hold an outdoor music festival.

    (4) "Issuing authority" means the legislative body of the local governmental unit where the site for an outdoor music festival is located.

    (5) "Participate" means to knowingly provide or deliver to the festival site supplies, materials, food, lumber, beverages, sound equipment, generators, or musical entertainment and/or to attend a music festival. A person shall be presumed to have knowingly provided as that phrase is used herein after he has been served with a court order.
    [1971 ex.s. c 302 21.]

    Is Puyallup a "government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds"
    So under this definition; as long as they're not more than 250 over capacity, the Gorge is not classified as an "outdoor music festival" because it's a "permanently established place of assembly".
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  21. #21
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Ok, so who actually owns the Puyallup Fairgrounds? Is it Puyallup, Pierce County, or a private entity? I can't seem to find this info. Per RCW if it is owned by the City of Puyallup then we can legaly carry there. I carried there last year because I fear for my and my Wife's safety more than I fear authorities.

  22. #22
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Ok, so who actually owns the Puyallup Fairgrounds? Is it Puyallup, Pierce County, or a private entity? I can't seem to find this info. Per RCW if it is owned by the City of Puyallup then we can legaly carry there. I carried there last year because I fear for my and my Wife's safety more than I fear authorities.

    That's zactly' the nubbin if the question. To my knowledge the fair grounds are privately owned and are not part of the city or county.

    concealed means concealed! have fun
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    My wife and I went to The Fair on Monday, Military Appreciation Day. There are no metal detectors, no searches of handbags or backpacks. Just walk through the gate. Do what you have to do to protect yourself and your family. They are NOT preventing bad guys from carrying weapons into the fair.

  24. #24
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I have never been able to figure out who runs the fair either I have always just CC at the fair out of convince. Its not the best neighborhood at night and am not going to risk my life or my girlfriends by leaving it in the car
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    I have never been able to figure out who runs the fair either I have always just CC at the fair out of convince. Its not the best neighborhood at night and am not going to risk my life or my girlfriends by leaving it in the car
    Let's start with this:

    The Western Washington Fair Association, also known as the Puyallup Fair, is a private, not-for-profit, 501-C3 corporation. It receives no government subsidy, and pays city and state taxes.
    http://www.thefair.com/utility/about...management.php

    Seems pretty straight forward and clear, the "Fair" is private in all respects. Just a "non-profit" for Federal Tax purposes.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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