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Thread: So Whats it Going to Take?

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    So Whats it Going to Take?

    So ladies and gents, whats it gonna take to make North Carolina more like Arizona. I think its about time we abolish the CCW permits in the state of North Carolina. Criminals are carrying without the permit. And I would too but unlike a criminal I'm a responisble individual and heaven forbid I should need my gun, I don't feel like being arrested for carrying a concealed weapon after I defend myself against an attacker. Do we need to rally somewhere to promote the idea? Do we need to show them that the more armed civilians we have amongst us will make us all a little bit safer? The Anti-Gun individual isn't anti-gun, he's just pro-big government. He's mis-informed by people in congress who trick us all into believing that less guns equal less crime. Its a notion we need to consider. I'm sick of big brother following me around everywhere. I don't feel like carrying a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I think instead of a permit to carry the weapon you should just carry a permit that says you took a gun safety and training course with a certified instructor. Do a simple brady back ground check just like you're buying a long rifle. Just an idea, feel free to comment.
    Not teaching your child gun safety is like not teaching them how to use the toilet. Eventually theres going to be an accident.

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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    I fully agree... you shouldn't need permission to carry openly or concealed as long as you are a law abiding citizen and have had the proper training. But the government needs the crime there so they can make people think they need the government to protect them with B.S. gun control laws. But its just like in religion. Too many Christians have stayed quiet too long that nothing will ever be reversed as have gun owners. Government has gotten too big.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I disagree. I say no regulation, period. No required training, no card at all. Of course, I believe everyone should train, but absolutely no government involvement.

    Also, while I believe we should have no-permit CC, it's not high on the list for me. It may take third, but here are the top two for me:
    1. Complete state preemption.
    2. Abolish laws dealing with no carry in restaurants serving alcohol, bars, schools, anywhere that charges admission, etc.

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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    I disagree. I say no regulation, period. No required training, no card at all. Of course, I believe everyone should train, but absolutely no government involvement.

    Also, while I believe we should have no-permit CC, it's not high on the list for me. It may take third, but here are the top two for me:
    1. Complete state preemption.
    2. Abolish laws dealing with no carry in restaurants serving alcohol, bars, schools, anywhere that charges admission, etc.
    Thats what I meant with the words "no permission". I do however believe that the person have training and be a law abiding citizen.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    As far as LAC goes, what are your opinions?

    Ex-cons included?

    I think anyone not in jail should be allowed to carry.

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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Oh that is a whole other can of worms. My opinion would have to be by the case. There are a small percentage of people in jail that are innocent but had horrible representation. There are also a small percentage of people in jail for minor issues. Most definately someone who commits a violent crime, a crime of thievery, or any sort of crime against a child(including not paying child support) should not be allowed to carry because those things definately tell you about the character of the person and they aren't responsible enough to own a gun.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    Without a big shift in power in Raleigh, nothing will change. Or it will change VERY slowly and with lot's of effort. Kind of like right now.

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    I haven't read all the replies so I'm sorry if this has been said. Something that has crept into a lot of Americans' minds is that carrying a gun in and of itself is a crime when it actually is not. I don't have a problem letting convicted felons carry as long as their convictions aren't for violent crimes. People should be criminals based on whether or not they're hurting others whether it's financially or physically or property crimes, not for having something in their possession.

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Felons served their dept to society while in prison. If they can't be given a gun when they leave prison, than they shouldn't be on the streets at all. Felons get all their other rights back when they leave jail - why not their 2nd amendment rights?
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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    Felons served their dept to society while in prison. If they can't be given a gun when they leave prison, than they shouldn't be on the streets at all. Felons get all their other rights back when they leave jail - why not their 2nd amendment rights?
    Thats why I believe its a case by case situation. If they are a felon because they killed someone then in my opinion is prison wasn't enough of a punishment to begin with. With how broken the system is a murderer can kill someone and be out of jail in a much shorter time than should be and they don't need a gun to be able to do it again. I don't put much trust into a thief either. Every situation is a different one.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smlawrence View Post
    Thats why I believe its a case by case situation. If they are a felon because they killed someone then in my opinion is prison wasn't enough of a punishment to begin with. With how broken the system is a murderer can kill someone and be out of jail in a much shorter time than should be and they don't need a gun to be able to do it again. I don't put much trust into a thief either. Every situation is a different one.
    Who gets to decide each case? Will it be by some subjective standards, dependable on the individual making the decision, or it will it be judged objectively, and just altered over time to slowly decrease the number of people, or felons, who can carry?

    Yes, the system is broken. That's part of what's wrong today-you can't fix anything without screwing up something else. As eb31 said, no system is perfect. However, what many people seem to be missing is that we have a RIGHT to carry-no system is needed. Just like we don't need training and a permit to exercise our right to free speech or religion.

    How about instead of trying to fix a broken system, we recognize it for what it is-unnecessary-and do away with it altogether?

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    How about instead of trying to fix a broken system, we recognize it for what it is-unnecessary-and do away with it altogether?
    Because those in power don't want to lose any power. We have this unnecessary system because lawyers decreed that we needed it in the first place.

    Funny though - everything was perfectly fine up until people started to put extra layers on things, now look at everything. Can barely scratch your a$$ in public without getting cops called on you for public indecency....
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    As far as LAC goes, what are your opinions?

    Ex-cons included?

    I think anyone not in jail should be allowed to carry.
    We certainly will not try to tackle that aspect as our top priority this session. That is very unpopular, whether right or wrong. I know your quotes that sound good about "a man not trusted with a gun should not be trusted in society".

    I think perhaps it might be easier to get us back to less than a decade again where all non-violent felons would have their rights restored. However, violent felons may not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    Felons served their dept to society while in prison. If they can't be given a gun when they leave prison, than they shouldn't be on the streets at all. Felons get all their other rights back when they leave jail - why not their 2nd amendment rights?
    Do felons get all their other rights back when they leave...PRISON (not to pick on you, but everyone in this post has referred to jail, not prison, while meaning prison)? You might be right, I didn't think they did get all their rights back. They can vote as ex-Felons?

    And just for my OCD side, jail is where you go to be held while you are essentially awaiting trial and have not been convicted of anything (temporary holding cells, although some more "temporary" than others), and prison is where you go to "serve your time" for most crimes that are punishable by time.

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    you can fix the felony situation pretty easily. Anyone convicted of a violent crime (rape, murder, attempted murder, armed robbery, ect) those are the criminals who won't be allowed to have a weapon. Secondly there should be no laws saying to and where you can carry your weapon. End of story.
    Not teaching your child gun safety is like not teaching them how to use the toilet. Eventually theres going to be an accident.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I agree that felons carrying is low on the list of things that need to be changed regarding gun laws. I also understand that it is not a popular decision, and it's not something I intend to actively try to change. There is too much that needs to be changed otherwise.

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    Regular Member Maverick9110e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    I agree that felons carrying is low on the list of things that need to be changed regarding gun laws. I also understand that it is not a popular decision, and it's not something I intend to actively try to change. There is too much that needs to be changed otherwise.

    +1

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farkles View Post
    Do felons get all their other rights back when they leave...PRISON (not to pick on you, but everyone in this post has referred to jail, not prison, while meaning prison)? You might be right, I didn't think they did get all their rights back. They can vote as ex-Felons?
    Apparently, ex-felons aren't allowed to vote either (a quick google search confirms, but no hard source saying otherwise - most articles mention the 14th amendment). My civics course that I took back in 03 apparently was outdated, because I remember my teacher saying that ex-felons get their right to vote back when they leave prison, but can't vote while in prison.

    edit: did some more digging, and I can't find a steady answer. If anyone can find a hard source, please let me know

    So I guess an ex-felon really does only get a few of his freedoms back, even after serving his time in prison - so why release them at all at that point? If they have served their debt to society, than that's that. Now, people have to live the rest of their lives unable to vote, and unable to (legally) protect themselves.
    Last edited by elixin77; 09-23-2010 at 11:47 AM.
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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    But like I mentioned before, some felons, due to a broken system, don't pay their full debt to society, either by getting lighter sentences than were due or getting out extremely early due to getting someone smart enough to interpret the law a little differently to fit their situation.

    My mindframe is if you intentionally kill someone, you should die the same death. If you intentionally steal, you should loose the hand you stole with. If you harm a child in anyway, then daylight should be the last thing you see. All of which, would render gunrights un-necessary.

    As for other crimes, if time(set by law not human opinion) is completely served, then by all means let rights be restored and pray the person was rehabilitated.

    We should not be restricted as to where/why/how/when/what we carry when we are in public or private.

    I know I didn't cover all laws but I at least wanted to cover the major opinions I have. No matter what is done in this world, there will be a day when we all are judged for our actions, and the rewards & punishments will exceed anything we can do ourselves by far.


    P.S. When I say intentionally kill someone I do not mean in defense of self or someone else.
    Last edited by smlawrence; 09-23-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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    1 - Full state preemption. Traveling should not make me a criminal.

    2 - Restaurant carry like VA has. If I'm not drinking I shouldn't give up my self defense rights.

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    Regular Member spinner's Avatar
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    Actually you can vote if your a felon, depending if you pay your fines and live in one of these state's http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.r...ourceID=000286. GOD BLESS.

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    Ok, I have been reading through this posting and where I can agree with some of the things said, one thing comes to mind that was never addressed.

    It was said that we would like no permit whatsoever to carry however we like. I like and agree with that idea. It was also said that non-violent felons should be allowed to carry a gun. So maybe someone charged with embezzlement or excessive wreckless driving, ok I can see that.

    My question comes here.... how would we know who is NOT allowed to carry a weapon under these circumstances? Or are we saying that it does not matter, let the LEOs figure that out when running across the individual in the response to a crime or during a traffic stop? Just wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acritical View Post
    Ok, I have been reading through this posting and where I can agree with some of the things said, one thing comes to mind that was never addressed.

    It was said that we would like no permit whatsoever to carry however we like. I like and agree with that idea. It was also said that non-violent felons should be allowed to carry a gun. So maybe someone charged with embezzlement or excessive wreckless driving, ok I can see that.

    My question comes here.... how would we know who is NOT allowed to carry a weapon under these circumstances? Or are we saying that it does not matter, let the LEOs figure that out when running across the individual in the response to a crime or during a traffic stop? Just wondering.
    As far as I'm concerned, everyone should be able to carry. Regarding anyone who needs a caregiver (minor, mentally challenged,etc.) the caregiver should take care of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, everyone should be able to carry. Regarding anyone who needs a caregiver (minor, mentally challenged,etc.) the caregiver should take care of this.
    Including the sorry a$$ed 15 year old sitting in the Fayetteville jail for violently assaulting 8 people so far?

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    Does it matter now who is or isn't allowed to carry? Criminals will always carry a gun. The laws won't change for them reguardless to whether we need a permit to carry concealed or not. I figure as long as the criminals are going to do it, we need to just drop the permits all together.
    Not teaching your child gun safety is like not teaching them how to use the toilet. Eventually theres going to be an accident.

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