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No OC @ Waterford Schools

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Unless you are simply picking up and dropping off (not exiting your vehicle and not parked for an extended period of time) I'd like to know where it's legal to carry on any school property.

SG28 found it.

Sec. 237a.

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
 

Beerme

Banned
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
526
Location
Waterford, Michigan, USA
I suggest you watch your tone. Internet tough guy routines only go so far before one day you're not protected by your monitor.

Just a friendly word of advice.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I really hope you're not serious.

im with Dougwg on this one
ignored
 

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
I was picking up my daughter from a Waterford schools daycare a few weeks ago, and was later called at home by the superintendent(?). He told me that Waterford schools has a no weapons policy, and that If I returned to the schools with my gun that I would be arrested. Some of you would love to see that happen I'm sure, but put those feelings aside for a bit, this problem is much bigger than "stainless1911". We're talking about a very large school district, and the waterford police seem to be misinformed as well.

I explained to the super or whoever he was, that I had a CPL, and could therefore open carry in the schools. He didn't care. I told him about the MCLs related, 227, 425o and 234d, and explained to him how they work together to allow OC with a CPL, but he wasn't convinced. He alluded to the federal 1,000 foot rule, and said their policy was based off of this. I explained to him that there was an exemption for CPL holders in the federal law, and also explained to him our preemption law, but to no avail. He persisted to tell me that if I returned to the school that I would be arrested, and that he was going to inform everyone who worked for the district that they were to call the police on anyone with a gun in school.

I asked him to follow up with the Waterford Police Department, thinking that he would listen to them instead of me. I called him back a couple of weeks later to see what they told him. He informed me that I would indeed be arrested on a misdemeanor charge under 227, despite the fact that I had made it very clear that I was a CPL holder.

So, as it is right now, since I "have been informed", and the schools staff has likely been told about this incident, there is no OC at Waterford Schools.

Just a suggestion, in the future if someone calls you on a matter like this, demand their name and title. This would make things a lot easier to follow up on. Who is to say this isn't some parent or line level employee trying to start something???
 

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
Unless you are simply picking up and dropping off (not exiting your vehicle and not parked for an extended period of time) I'd like to know where it's legal to carry on any school property.

Expanding on what sprinklerguy28 said...




28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.Sec. 5o.
(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
(3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
(a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.
(b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.
(c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the professional investigator licensure act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.
(d) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.
(e) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.
(f) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a member of a sheriff's posse.
(g) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is an auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.
(h) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is a parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.
(i) A state court judge or state court retired judge who is licensed under this act. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a state court retired judge to obtain and carry a letter from the judicial tenure commission stating that the state court retired judge is in good standing as authorized under section 30 of article VI of the state constitution of 1963, and rules promulgated under that section, in order to qualify under this subdivision.
(5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
(b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
(c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.


History: Add. 2000, Act 381, Eff. July 1, 2001 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 719, Eff. July 1, 2003 ;-- Am. 2008, Act 194, Eff. Jan. 7, 2009 ;-- Am. 2008, Act 406, Imd. Eff. Jan. 6, 2009 ;-- Am. 2008, Act 407, Eff. Apr. 6, 2009
Popular Name: CCW
Popular Name: Concealed Weapons
Popular Name: CPL
Popular Name: Right to Carry
Popular Name: Shall Issue

© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
 
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army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
Waterford

Stainless as a fellow OC er i spend alot of time in waterford and the police are very aware of OC in michigan if you would like someone to go with you i have no problem with that and maybe we ca n get some coffee afterwards.
 

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
i would say hold off, and see where your call to the chief of police goes. then if needed then a visit with the chief. and who was it exactly who called you? and said you would be arrested?
 

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
are you certain it really was the actual superintendant?? i agree it could just be a concerned over reaching parent who knows how to do a basic background check. imo we need to take this one slow until some kind of confirmation is made on who really called you. also you said you called this person back! is it a number used by the school district? a reverse look up could tell you that! or if not then it would give an address of the number you called, so long as it is a land line. if its a cell then i would question the veracity of the call, without proof of the caller. did the caller give his her name? these are all important points. find out this information.
 
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army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
No OC in waterford schools

To the defense of this Waterford has a new superintendent which corresponds frequently with the pontiac school district there feeling is the same we actually have metal detectors. Ive actually tried to take just magazines in they said no magazines or firearms allowed you are in violation of my rights state rules he said i just violate them. So there about the same.
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Im looking into Michigan laws and the Federal statute. I am aware that in Tn . . .

Thanks for sharing TN law. Things are different here in MI so, yes, you'll have to look into our laws. No need to do too much original research, though. We've done the work and there are some accurate brochures, charts, etc.

I would think that since the principle asked you not to carry on school grounds that would fall.under the same as a private business owner asking you to leave.....

Not here in MI. "Public" means "public" here, including public schools.

Or, you could force the issue just to flex your carrying muscles and he could post signs everywhere

Won't happen, or at least won't stand up to legal challenge. We have state preemption here in MI.

, make such a big deal that other local businesses begin to post

Here in MI we have found that the publicity of OC, even with the several stories intentionally spun negatively by our opponents and some media, has not led to businesses turning anti-gun. We have experienced some people making a big negative deal out of our activity, but there hasn't been a pattern of area businesses posting anti-gun signs. So, since your speculation does not match reality, you can go ahead and rid yourself of this irrational fear.

...thus you would make things harder for other law abiding permit holders and defeat the purpose of everything we've accomplished to date.

The fear that robust, active, and assertive exercise of OC will negatively affect other gun carriers and "defeat" general gun rights purposes has been proven, nationally and here in MI as well, to be a Chicken Little, "the sky is falling", nonsensical and irrational fear. The political and social track record, on the whole, has for a while demonstrated that anti-gun efforts initiated by assertive exercises of OC (such as, recently, in CA with AB 1934--the attempt to ban OC state-wide) have not been successful.

Your take-away from all this is that assertive and robust exercise of OC, even in the face of some negative spinning by our opponents, has actually helped the cause of gun rights tremendously. I would encourage you, before you formulate speculations (any speculation), to do a little homework and see if there is info or data from reality to either confirm or reject your speculations before you adopt them as a way of thinking or publicize them.
 

Kovernm

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Marshall, Michigan, USA
My understanding is that you can not carry unless you are just dropping of / picking up a student per the law( that was quoted at the bottom of the first page).
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
My understanding is that you can not carry unless you are just dropping of / picking up a student per the law( that was quoted at the bottom of the first page).
That rule only applies to carrying concealed. We're referring to OCing with a CPL. By Michigan law, and a MI AG's opinion, it's legal.
 

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
My understanding is that you can not carry unless you are just dropping of / picking up a student per the law( that was quoted at the bottom of the first page).

if carrying concealed, can only conceal if dropping of / picking up if someplace other than the parking lot, or you can conceal anytime in a parking lot as parking area's are not pfz's

with cpl, there are no restrictions on open carry at school.

a school may be able to ask you to not carry there. They do not appear to be covered by preemption as a school is not "a local unit of government" as defined in mcl 123.1101 et seq. (my understanding is that schools are actually state run, not local...or am i wrong on that?)

As used in this act:

(a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.
 
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