cops n 'OCers in wisconsin

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I don't understand what the RAS was! LEOs can NOT stop you just because you are carrying. You must have committed, or are about to commit a crime they witnessed in order for them to have a LEGAL reason to stop you.

This should've NEVER happened.

From the Wisconsin forum

Here's the thread that documents the event.
Good people, good reading.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80869-Madison-PD-detains-and-cites-OCers-tonight.

Fight the good fight!

-MH

It has been an amazing thread to read, and listen to. I'm currently listening to the audio from today's radio interview with an OCDO member.

I'm thinking maybe we should try to start an organization similar to Wisconsin Carry, Inc. That is unless there is already one in place.

Why can't we have an organization like WCI? Oh yeah, we've got the WAC. LOL!

deanf said:

Why can't we have an organization like WCI? Oh yeah, we've got the WAC. LOL!

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I sincerely hope that is a joke.

Tomas said:

I sincerely hope that is a joke.

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The real joke is that WAC is just about the only organization in Washington State that is formally organized and lobby's for gun rights almost exclusively within the State.

Before the Internet groups like WAC were about the only way for people to get together and express their views and have them taken to politicians. Today, people would rather sit at their computer and complain. Ask them to formally organize, get together and elect leaders, pay dues, etc. and everyone "has something else to do with their time.

I sure don't agree with a lot of WAC's actions but who else is there in Washington State. NRA, SAF, CCRKBA, seem to have more of a "National Agenda".

Perhaps there is an opportunity to form a more "formal" organization of those that support the right's of ALL that wish to carry a firearm, Concealed OR Open.

amlevin said:

The real joke is that WAC is just about the only organization in Washington State that is formally organized and lobby's for gun rights almost exclusively within the State.

Before the Internet groups like WAC were about the only way for people to get together and express their views and have them taken to politicians. Today, people would rather sit at their computer and complain. Ask them to formally organize, get together and elect leaders, pay dues, etc. and everyone "has something else to do with their time.

I sure don't agree with a lot of WAC's actions but who else is there in Washington State. NRA, SAF, CCRKBA, seem to have more of a "National Agenda".

Perhaps there is an opportunity to form a more "formal" organization of those that support the right's of ALL that wish to carry a firearm, Concealed OR Open.

Click to expand...

Some people are joiners, others...not so much. I am a professional non-profit association executive director and do this for a living.

If there is interest, I would be willing to lead a "strategic planning session" to help people understand the scope of what this concept looks like when applied...and the resources (volunteer, financial, legal) to make it acutualize...

The moderator said we have about 1,200 in WA signed up, with as many as 3,000 that have been involved over time....

This is more than enough to begin, even if only 25% actually act on the opportunity to formalize a state OC organization.

A meet up to sketch out the needs/costs of an actual organization would be of interest to me, we seem to have a bunch of folks very well versed in the rcw's would be nice to have a better framework to hang any actions on

/raises hand to show interest.

One might find more and wider support if such organization was a carry organization with open carry as one of it's thrusts instead of limiting it just open carry...

jt59 said:

Some people are joiners, others...not so much. I am a professional non-profit association executive director and do this for a living.

If there is interest, I would be willing to lead a "strategic planning session" to help people understand the scope of what this concept looks like when applied...and the resources (volunteer, financial, legal) to make it acutualize...

The moderator said we have about 1,200 in WA signed up, with as many as 3,000 that have been involved over time....

This is more than enough to begin, even if only 25% actually act on the opportunity to formalize a state OC organization.

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I am interested, just let me know. I agree with Tomas on the carry organization part as long as OC is a definant department of the whole, good thinking Tomas.

Orphan said:

I am interested, just let me know. I agree with Tomas on the carry organization part as long as OC is a definant department of the whole, good thinking Tomas.

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All part of the process...first step is to guage interest...next is to identify some "ambassadors" and then to hold a series of "stakeholder" (our monthly meet and greets) meetings to articulate purpose...over some period of time to listen to the folks this organization would seek to represent.

mik253 said:

http://www.infowars.com/citizens-cops-freak-out-over-open-carry-in-wisconsin/

Anyone else find the statement "certainly the law in this state is that you can have Oc, its your second amendment right and we respect that but we still need to find out what people are doing when they walk around with guns on there hips" contradictory?

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Well, yes, of course it is a contradiction.

Its main purpose, though, is to sneak in the idea that cops have some special authority to seize people to "find out what people are doing" absent genuine reasonable articulable suspicion. Keep putting that idea across, and it becomes (has become?) accepted. Then, most folks won't fuss, and some will even agree.

I am interested also.

If we can get enough support from the dry side of the state, maybe we could have a meeting somewhere near Ellensburg? That is about as central as we could get for the entire state. Just a suggestion.

jt59 said:

All part of the process...first step is to guage interest...next is to identify some "ambassadors" and then to hold a series of "stakeholder" (our monthly meet and greets) meetings to articulate purpose...over some period of time to listen to the folks this organization would seek to represent.

Click to expand...

We tried that after the meeting/dinner @ Manu's restaurant ....... failed miserably... got shot down....

If you folks are not following, the Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is filing a fast tracked federal lawsuit against the Madion, WI Police Department.

This will be worth following.

If you guys form an organization like WCI, I'll join to help you guys out as much as possible.

Things to think about

TechnoWeenie said:

We tried that after the meeting/dinner @ Manu's restaurant ....... failed miserably... got shot down....

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Ok, so (some) of the folks at the dinner meeting didn't think it was a good idea, how many were there? ....and is that representative of the feelings of the entire group of people that may wish to be involved?

How long ago was this?....has anything changed in the politics, progress, momentum or demographics of the group (like we got way bigger, or the "lurkers" are showing up by the dozens.

It is important to the process of guaging interest to do it in a number of different forums, and a number of different ways....you also have to do it over time (go slow), to allow for the people that are regularly monitoring activity to those that only visit occasionally...

A lot of times, these ideas of organization, jump straight to the conclusion of structure and beauracracy and how it "won't work". Its often based on peoples personal experience with other organizations that are pretty ineffective or have lost their way (think about peoples rants or support to the NRA on this forum).

Keeping an open mind and letting the process develop the discussion of establishing the needs....which looks at how things are working now vs how they might...allows everyone to be heard. Something may emerge, maybe not....but if you just shoot down the idea from the get go, you never know what good may have come from it.

Resistance to change is about as natural as it gets....you can look at that personally or in nearly any of the relationships or activities that you are in (employer, gov't, clubs, teenagers)....

Anyway,

The initial question could be as simple as "Do you think there could be value in formalizing an organization to represent this specific segment of the gun community?"...if the answer is Yes, then take the next step, if NO, then OK, stop.

Once you've established that the interest is high enough (you'll need 50+ people willing to get it started and then 150-300 people to make it "survivable" and 300-1000 to make it sustainable) depending on what it's focus is and how much it costs.

Questions that come later develop a "needs analysis" of folks from the intial question:

"Yes, but, that depends on (pick your response)"...and then you begin to frame the issues.

It could be:

Education (community)
Segment representation (Ie: CC vs OC or...CC and OC, to common issues)
Training Opportunities
Legislative representation
Political advocacy (pic-nics)
Legal support
Cool Logo wear

...whatever.

...and then you see if these are the things that are important enough to "organize" around....if not, then OK, you stop.

My experience with managing over 250 employees in my past working life and participating in various volunteer organizations with as many as 5,000 members, is that people join and participate in companies and organizations for three basic reasons (IMO)...

They have something to contribute
They hope to affect change
They get some recognition or satisfaction out of what they are doing.

They stay because all of the above are satisfied over time. The sustainability of the organization, employer, gov't, volunteerism or whatever is linked in its ability to consistently meet all those basic needs concurrently....otherwise, they don't step up, lose interest, get bored, quit donating, and/or go away.

There will always be detractors and supporters and those in the middle waiting (the "independents" in the upcoming election) for some impetus to make a decision...but in some ways, it's the nature of the growth of a grass roots movement into something else...IMO - it doesn't need to be "either/or" as much as "both/and"...

It's the beauty of a bell curve...and the saying "lead, follow, or get out of the way"...

....looking forward to your feedback!:idea:

I would like (to be part of) an organization that can be called upon in the event of a situation similar to what happened in WI: staff that can be immediately summoned to respond with press releases and other forms of public education, fact finding (FOIA), hosting/publishing of electonic media, and legal action.

I would pay money to be part of such a thing.