I shop there once in a while, mostly 'cause their produce is nicer than PickNSave. Stopped in today to pick up a few things (mostly for a salad... hot weather makes me want salads).
Was there for maybe 10-15 minutes (no upset, nobody running in fear, no questions, just your average shopping trip), went through the self-checkout (which by some miracle for the first time didn't malfunction on me!), noticed a guy in a tie standing nearby kinda looking at me, but more or less ignored him.
Went out the exit nearest my car to find tie guy & another guy waiting for me.
"Can we talk to you a minute?"
What about? (As if I can't guess.)
What do you want to know? (I'm really hungry & pretty grumpy 'cause I haven't eaten, but I'm trying to be nice. None of you have been around when I'm low on blood sugar, so you don't realize how huge a thing this is. I was remarkably civil to tie guy.)
"We're posted as a no gun zone. It's corporate policy. Guns make some people uncomfortable."
Really? (I go look at the door as tie guy points it out. A 3" clear sticker with a circle-slash way off to the left of the door.) Huh. Well, I certainly won't be back to shop here again.
I took my bag to the car, dropped off the gun, then went back to get a copy of the policy. Tie guy says there isn't a policy written up, but if I email the owner (gives me his card) HE can send it to me.
I asked tie guy if I told him black people make me uncomfortable, would he put up a sign barring them?*
Of course not.
Well, someone being uncomfortable does NOT trump my civil rights either. Yes, this is private property, but it's also a place of public accommodation.
It's the owner's policy. I'm all for open carry.
You do understand that that sign will only keep paying customers out, not criminals who want to rob you, right?
He agreed, and seemed apologetic (even though I no longer had the gun).
So the owner's contact info is:
726 N Midvale Blvd.; Madison; 53705
1 608 238 7612
If you want to include the store manager here in the Milwaukee area:
414 259 8560
6700 W State St.; Wauwatosa; 53213
If I hadn't been so hungry, I would have made him refund my money & gone 2 blocks down the street to the PnS.
I'll think about what to write as I'm falling asleep tonight, & send off an email in the morning. Maybe follow it up with a phone call later in the day.
[*Just to be perfectly clear, I have NO problem with people of any color. I have a problem with idiots who refuse to think. This was just the first thing that came to mind, 'cause a black woman was walking out the door just then.]
Last edited by MKEgal; 09-21-2010 at 11:21 PM.
Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"
the oranges must have complained, though i hear the apples and mangos had no problem with him being there. the lettuce could not be reached for comment.
Metcalf's is a Madison media darling and likely reflects that media's anti-Constitutional rights (recent WISC coverage for example) bias. Ironically, the father of the current owner was extremely active in Republican politics.
I recently heard that you have posted a 'no firearms' sign at your store in Wauwatosa. You do realize that this will guarantee that the only people in your store with a firearm will be criminals since they enjoy breaking the law and one more doesn't make a difference? According to the letter of the law, you have also precluded law enforcement officers from carrying inside the store as well.
Various other merchants have expressed their neutrality by not posting signs either for or against open carry of firearms, I would appreciate it if you would do the same. Starbucks and Culvers, to name 2 have welcomed us and have found out that we are good customers who show loyalty to merchants that remain neutral.
I can assure you that as long as you have that sign posted, I will not shop at any of your locations.
Paul L Fisher
Super busy today, so I don't have time to go digging for the name, but the Sentry in West Allis (by Hwy100 and Cleveland) and the Sentry in Menomonee Falls are owned by the same guy.
HE supports the right to carry in his stores. (I can't remember his name because I dealt with the manager and the owner, I want to say the owner think its Tim or Ted. and the manager was a common name like Jeff or MIke, can't remember)
I know because I personally called him when we were shooting the stores for Sun Media out of Canada and the Japanese National Media story on open-carry, and he gave us permission to film in the store. (I didn't ask permission to OC of course, but he knew we would be OC'ing)
You might suggest to Metcalf's that other local sentries do allow OC (or shop those sentry's)
Also in Racine they originally posted no firearms signs and then took them down and allow OC now.
Last edited by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman; 09-22-2010 at 10:07 AM.
www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
One would think that the "smartest" business decision would be to have a neutral position and follow state law.
I just stopped in the Sentry in 'Tosa not an hour ago on my way back from the Tosa library.
It's posted, but man the sign is small. About the circumference of a soda can. It's just a picture of a revolver crossed out. And it's to the side of the door. One has to Actively look for it to see it. Very easy to miss.
I did not buy anything in the store, nor will I.
Just got this!!!
+1 for the good guys!Dear Mr. Paul Fisher,
Thank you for writing. We recently put up these stickers in our two stores, Madison and Wauwatosa. Without going into the details we have decided to pull them.
Thank you for brining your thoughts regarding our policy to our attention.
I got the same reply. Carry on.
Glad I can continue shopping there. I actually go to the Tosa store frequently. Might bump into one of you!
Way cool! Funny thing, Ive talked to Tim several times because of my profession, Id think that he'd tend more towards the 'right' on the OC issue! Evidentally he does!
My letter to him was a bit long:
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:18 PM
To: Tim Metcalfe - Prez
Cc: Jeff Greenheck - Operations Manager
Subject: asked to stay out of your Wauwatosa store
I stopped in your Tosa store on the afternoon of the 21st to pick up some things for a salad. I think your produce is better than other places (other than the farmer's market), so I stop in when I'm nearby. After I'd been shopping for 10 or 15 minutes, and successfully used the self checkout (for once it didn't act up on me!), I was stopped as I left the store by a man who appeared to be a manager.
He informed me that because some customers were uncomfortable, the store had started a no-gun policy. He showed me the (small!) sticker off to one side of the door, which I had not seen when entering. I agreed not to shop in this store again, put my bag & handgun in my car, then returned to get a copy of the policy & contact information for you.
He said only you could give me a copy of the policy (please send it), and it was your decision to turn away paying customers who were exercising their right to self-protection. I understand you have the right to turn away customers for pretty much any reason, but for peacefully exercising a constitutionally protected right?? (The Wisconsin constitution gives stronger protection than the federal one, and was amended in 1998 to include those protections.)
Other people being uncomfortable does not trump my right to self-protection. If I were uncomfortable seeing a black person, or a person wearing a cross, would you turn them away? No, and if you did there would be quite a stink raised about it.
Do you realize that legally the little sticker on the door prohibits any armed police officer, even one who's on duty & responding to a 911 call, from entering your store? They probably wouldn't be arrested for it, but they would be breaking the law.
And that sticker won't stop a criminal who wants to rob your store. What's one more rule to break?
And it won't stop someone who is illegally concealing their gun, which usually means they're up to no good.
And it's a huge liability issue that you've accepted responsibility for the safety of your customers while in the store or parking lot.
The only people the sticker will keep out are those of us who are law-abiding & not a threat. (When we can see it.)
So you're making some customers "feel" better while decreasing safety & increasing liability. Even if I hadn't been told I was no longer welcome (because I legally, safely, & peacefully carry a handgun for self-protection) I would not want to shop there because you've made the store safe for criminals. Look at where crime happens - places where criminals think they won't get hurt: schools, malls, places that have disarmed their patrons.
Because I told people about this policy I already know of one person who lives in Tosa who said he will not shop at your store. I don't know how many people he will influence, but bad publicity is hard to overcome.
Most people in most places I go don't even notice the gun. The few who do aren't alarmed by it. I've only had one instance where someone asked police if what I was doing was legal & the police over-reacted & caused a scene.
(Do I have a talent for understatement or what?)
Go back to following state law, allowing peaceful law-abiding citizens who are protecting themselves to spend money in your stores. Starbucks and Culvers both follow state laws wherever they are, in allowing firearms carried by law-abiding customers. They've been rewarded by the loyalty and money of millions of law-abiding gun owners.
I've even been told of 2 Sentries in the Milwaukee area where the owner actively welcomes law-abiding citizens who carry a gun for self-protection. I will support him with my money unless your policy changes.
And I got the same response you all did.
I did send him a thank-you note in return.
YEA!! Polite persuasion does work on some people.
I also sent him a thank you for standing up for Liberty and doing the right thing.
I assume it's not Sentry's corporate policy to post because of what I read in this thread but if anyone has the corporate policy it may be useful to me. I went to get some lunch at the Sentry in Prairie du Sac and noticed the great big sign that said "No Firearms allowed in building".
On Sentry's website, the email contact for this store is listed as email@example.com
I'm going to send off a polite, but insistent email. If others would like to as well, that would be great.
Lex malla, lex nulla
I received an email reply from the owner already.
He stated that he did what the insurance company told him to do but is waiting on them to give him their reason. If they don't give him one, he's taking down the signs.
I replied with the pertinent sections of ACT 35 that absolve him from liability resulting from his decision to allow firearms. I also included a link to the .pdf. Hopefully the sings will come down soon.
Lex malla, lex nulla
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)
If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor
I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)
May I see your First, Fourth And Thirteenth Amendment Permits, please?
Guns do not make you a killer. I
think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is
trying to ban you from driving to the ball game. (Andy Rooney RIP)
Since the signs were pulled it is a small point but that little circle doesn't meet the requirements for prohibiting concealed carry, so CCL would have been OK...since the sheeple can feel "comfortable"...
Member of Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultus habebunt...
Let shop owners and such post undersized prohibition signs to make the sheeple feel comfortable.
While we are aware of the legal requirements for this type of signage:
943.13(2)(bm)1. In this paragraph, "sign" means a sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. that is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.
Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP
Just a note on the topic: It does not appear that you were actually "Trespassed out" as that would involve a law enforcement officer and a notice that you were barred from the property. You were told to leave.