Does Your Employer Have A No Weapons Policy?

Our companies no firearms policy is in our employee handbook that no one has ever seen a physical copy of. I saw a pdf page "accidently" one time that states no firearms on co. property or any other property or events that are company involved.

I do know of several people that have handguns in their cars tho.

since9 said:

Hell, I was entrusted with nuclear weapons delivery (to the target, not some weapons depot)

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As a pilot or AFSPC?

Companies I worked as an engineer a quarter century for (all in the old Bell System) had 'no firearms' rules for employees, most facilities were not posted for customers.

The consulting company I was at after that encouraged carry - I owned it.

Wastelander said:

When I was hired there was a rule in our employee handbook stating that we cannot have "weapons of any kind" on company property. I checked it again when I was looking into getting my concealed carry permit (we don't need one here, but I like the reciprocity) and it doesn't seem to be there anymore. I checked with HR and they said we can't, still, though

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IANAL, but if there is no written company policy against it they would have a very hard time enforcing it.

Here in WA, if they do not have a copy of your signature saying you received and understand the policies then they cannot use the policy book or the fact that you broke a policy against you. Sadly, in WA they don't have to give you a reason for letting you go... so it's kind of a double edged sword.

If it ain't in the handbook, it ain't a company policy!

Employer says no possession of weapons but does not distinguish on premises, on property, off site, at home off-hours, etc. (This is what happens when you let HR lackeys, not lawyers or writers, write policy.)

We had an all-hands meeting off-site at a gubbmint building, which itself is subject to gubbmint restrictions. I didn't attend.

Somebody comes in to service the ATMs, armed with a handgun. We vetted employees can't protect ourselves from rapists and armed robbers in the parking lot, or road ragers on the streets*, but contractors can pack heat to protect cash.

*When they prohibit weapons at the workplace, they effectively prohibit defensive tools in the vehicle.

Tomas said:

Companies I worked as an engineer a quarter century for (all in the old Bell System) had 'no firearms' rules for employees, most facilities were not posted for customers.

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This has been covered elsewhere in the forums, but I'll state it again: The company isn't concerned about the liability is has with respect to its employees. A $10/hr security guard in the lobby is considered "reasonable precaution" and when combined with employee contracts, fairly well insulates the company from employee lawsuits about not being allowed to protect themselves. On the other hand, employees are agents of the company, and if one should ever go postal on other employees, or wrongfully shoot a customer, it opens the entire corporate purse up for grabs by the courts.

That's the huge liability they're trying to close by forbidding employees from carrying firearms.

The consulting company I was at after that encouraged carry - I owned it.

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That's one way to fix the problem!

Jack House said:

As a pilot or AFSPC?

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Back then, navigator. I was the one who would have pulled the trigger on both/either the bombs and/or the ALCMs, subject to the usual nuclear surety safeguards. Welcome to what was once my office!

Getting back to company policy, if a company forbids the carry of firearms, and you choose to CC anyway, the company is still protected, but so are you, at least from hostile intent. You might loose your job if anyone were to ever find out (or worse, also be charged with criminal tresspassing), with a significantly diminished opportunity for similar employment, but that's a risk you'll to consider.

I just started recently at a lumber/hardware/misc retail store that has locations in, I believe, 13 states. The employee handbook states that an employee may not be in possession of a gun or explosive on company property, even if employee has a license to carry a gun or explosive.

Note: This store is OC and firearm friendly as for its customers - just not its employees.

This stinks, since, according to the letter, I'd be disciplined (terminated, I'm sure) for even keeping my pistol in my car for the duration of my shift (which is exactly what I do and will continue to do so). I just can't let it become known, obviously.

I've had the misfortune of returning home from work to find my front door kicked in and not knowing if someone's still in my house (possibly with one of my guns in hand, or his own) a couple years ago. I was armed and thankful to be, even though the intruder was long gone. I don't plan on ever returning home unarmed, ever. I won't carry ON me at work but there's no way I'll let my employer impose on my ability to protect myself to and from work, and anywhere I go in-between.

hopnpop said:

...there's no way I'll let my employer impose on my ability to protect myself to and from work, and anywhere I go in-between.

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And that's the key issue! Under what authority are they telling me what I can and can't do when I'm off the clock and off their property? I understand, and even support, a company's private property rights, but they need to stop assuming authority they have no reasonable basis for.

Yes and no

I generally work as a subcontractor, so while I have bosses, I don't technically have an employee/employer relationship. Because we're not in properties owned or even truly controlled by the contractors, my bosses can't really prohibit carry. However they've politely asked that I not carry on the job. Even if they wanted me to, I wouldn't anyway. I can only imagine explaining an "accidental discharge" if a live wire came in contact with the frame and set off all the rounds inside. Not to mention the wear and tear of grinding a gun on cement floors. There are plenty of weapons at hand should I need them.

I lock my piece in my vehicle when on the job. If a homeowner had a problem with me bringing a gun onto the property and specifically asked me to stop, I would just park at the curb. I would do the same if I worked at one location owned by my employer. Surely it's possible to park somewhere not owned by your employer, if keeping a gun in your car in their parking lot is a problem?

As far as a "print-proof" holster, no holster is truly print-proof without the habits to keep it hidden. Always be aware of who might see it, make sure it's covered and try to keep that part of you out of people's view just to be sure.

Johnny W said:

Surely it's possible to park somewhere not owned by your employer, if keeping a gun in your car in their parking lot is a problem?

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I considered this also. The only available parking for me off of my employer's property is: parking lot of a steakhouse, cinema theater, pediatrician, or mall. I would have to secure permission from those places (with the exception of the mall, perhaps) to park my car there, and parking at any one of those places sticks me with quite a long walk from car to work. I'll much sooner stick to keeping my gun in my car (at work) and keeping my mouth shut.

Some States have passed laws that prohibit employers from banning a gun left in your car, even on their property. I like these laws because they recognize the rights of property owners to ban firearms, but also recognizes that your car is an extension of your home, wherever it is parked.

Now, if this idea could just be extended to post office parking lots...

A cut and paste from our company weapons policy-

1. No weapons, illegal drugs, and/or alcohol (contraband) are allowed in hospital facilities at any time. A gun permit does not authorize staff, patients, visitors, faculty, and/or students to bring weapons into the hospital under any circumstances. Exceptions to this policy will be:
a. Authorized law enforcement personnel who have notified BRGMC Security of their presence. No weapons of any kind will be allowed on the Behavioral Health Unit.
b. The President/CEO may approve exceptions to this rule for specific occasions.
c. Patients may be served wine, alcohol, or beer with Physician’s orders.
2. It is not a violation of this policy for a person to possess a legally permitted weapon if it remains entirely within a private vehicle operated by the person and is not handled by the person, or by any other person acting with expressed or implied consent, while the vehicle is on hospital property.

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Hospital has uniformed Security officers but they/we are all unarmed. Just radios and a ring of keys. No guns, tazers, mace or anything else.

Better than nothing

hopnpop said:

I considered this also. The only available parking for me off of my employer's property is: parking lot of a steakhouse, cinema theater, pediatrician, or mall. I would have to secure permission from those places (with the exception of the mall, perhaps) to park my car there, and parking at any one of those places sticks me with quite a long walk from car to work. I'll much sooner stick to keeping my gun in my car (at work) and keeping my mouth shut.

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I agree that it's much easier to simply keep your weapon in your car on company property. I would probably take that route myself in your situation if I didn't risk breaking any laws by doing so. I'd probably find a place for the gun that even a search of the vehicle shouldn't turn it up, not that it should ever come to that. I was just pointing out that those people who don't bring a gun to work at all and worry about their safety on the drive home could find a way to stay armed for most of the commute, which is better than not being armed the entire ride.

There are also plenty of every-day items that can function as weapons even though no one could ever claim they are. I've seen a plastic wrench device that's designed to be used as a sort of plastic knuckles. Also flashlights can be used to good effect as leverage devices and weapons of a sort. For me, a speed square would make a good improvised weapon if you hold it right to help you punch. These are all better than nothing.

eye95 said:

Some States have passed laws that prohibit employers from banning a gun left in your car, even on their property. I like these laws because they recognize the rights of property owners to ban firearms, but also recognizes that your car is an extension of your home, wherever it is parked.

Now, if this idea could just be extended to post office parking lots...

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My understanding is that the public side of the parking lot is fine for keeping a gun in your car. It is the employee (restricted) side of the parking lot that got a postal worker in hot water recently.

So when you go to drop off mail or buy postage you can leave your gun in the car. We only get in trouble if we bring the gun "into" the post office. (Another bvllsh!t law)

As a side note, why do they ban customers from bringing guns into a post office when it was the post office employees that were the ones going "postal"? Shouldn't we be allowed to defend ourselves from those Post Office employees?

who uses the post office anyway?

45acpForMe said:

My understanding is that the public side of the parking lot is fine for keeping a gun in your car. It is the employee (restricted) side of the parking lot that got a postal worker in hot water recently.

So when you go to drop off mail or buy postage you can leave your gun in the car. We only get in trouble if we bring the gun "into" the post office. (Another bvllsh!t law)

As a side note, why do they ban customers from bringing guns into a post office when it was the post office employees that were the ones going "postal"? Shouldn't we be allowed to defend ourselves from those Post Office employees?

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That is incorrect. Someone looked it up and posted it recently. I could look for it if you want me to, but I'm feeling lazy now.

eye95 said:

Some States have passed laws that prohibit employers from banning a gun left in your car, even on their property. I like these laws because they recognize the rights of property owners to ban firearms, but also recognizes that your car is an extension of your home, wherever it is parked.

Now, if this idea could just be extended to post office parking lots...

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Allow me to alter the last statement if you will:

Now, if this idea could just be extended to all 50 states!

Johnny W said:

I agree that it's much easier to simply keep your weapon in your car on company property. I would probably take that route myself in your situation if I didn't risk breaking any laws by doing so. I'd probably find a place for the gun that even a search of the vehicle shouldn't turn it up, not that it should ever come to that. I was just pointing out that those people who don't bring a gun to work at all and worry about their safety on the drive home could find a way to stay armed for most of the commute, which is better than not being armed the entire ride.

There are also plenty of every-day items that can function as weapons even though no one could ever claim they are. I've seen a plastic wrench device that's designed to be used as a sort of plastic knuckles. Also flashlights can be used to good effect as leverage devices and weapons of a sort. For me, a speed square would make a good improvised weapon if you hold it right to help you punch. These are all better than nothing.

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More good points. In my case, by keeping my gun in my car, I'm only breaking company policy, not any laws. And I'm not concerned with my car being searched.... it'll be a cold day in hell before I'd ever consent to a vehicle search.

As far as everyday items being used as makeshift weapons, I'm all for that, too. I recently watched a training video, Way Advanced Concealed Carry, I think it was, where the instructor mentioned making due with what items are immediately available. One of the things he talked about that I liked the most was making sure to always have a pen with you, which is easily done by anyone. A pen in your fist can inflict some pretty nasty damage in hand-to-hand combat.

I personally OC a LOT, and am used to having my SA heightened. That said, I've noticed that, on the rare occasion that I'm in a place where I can't have my gun, I'm always taking note of the objects around me that I could use as "damage inflictors". That kinda goes hand-in-hand with keeping your eyes open for cover and concealment. Keeps the mind occupied, that's for sure.

eye95 said:

That is incorrect. Someone looked it up and posted it recently. I could look for it if you want me to, but I'm feeling lazy now.

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http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/232-1-conduct-postal-property-19777182

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/post-office-parking-lot-off-limits-to-firearms

Some postoffices are in shared areas like strip malls and the parking lot isn't federal property. The above really pisses me off. I wish we could solve these problems in one fell swoop but it seems that it is going to me a long hard battle to get idiots like the ones setting this policy out of office or off the bench.

I am hoping November 2, 2010 will be a good start but so many subversives are entrenched in our government I honestly don't know that we will ever clean house totally. :-(

hopnpop said:

Allow me to alter the last statement if you will:

Now, if this idea could just be extended to all 50 states!

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Yes. And to post office parking lots.

The law requiring employers to allow employees to keep a gun locked in their car would not apply to post offices. There is a separate federal law barring guns on post office property, and it applies to employees and to the general public. That bit of lunacy has to be fixed at the federal level.