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Thread: ODU is stepping up police presence, but what will that accomplish?

  1. #1
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    ODU is stepping up police presence, but what will that accomplish?

    I received this in my email today and just wanted to share with you all. They already have stepped up on campus police but the other night a student was robbed right in front of the library. Anyways here is the "attempt" at cutting down on crime. If you ask me, I think this is a good argument for SCCC. It seems like every couple of days now I get an email about "someone robbed at gunpoint" or something of that sorts.

    "
    Dear ODU Community:



    We are all deeply concerned about the recent spate of crime around the campus. Our students, faculty and staff should be able to work, learn and live in an environment where they feel safe. Crime of any sort is not acceptable at Old Dominion University.



    This morning, I've authorized deploying Norfolk Sheriff's Department deputies to provide additional security and patrols of our campus and the surrounding concurrent jurisdiction. These officers will augment the activities of Old Dominion police officers, who I have also directed to increase shifts and patrols, until further notice. Additionally, I have asked Police Chief Rudy Burwell to work with Norfolk Police Chief Bruce Marquis in increasing Norfolk police support in the concurrent jurisdiction.



    In addition to these immediate efforts, we will review and restructure our current policing strategies to ensure that the Old Dominion University campus is a safe and secure environment.



    As you may know, the Norfolk City Council in August gave approval for the city manager to initiate planning for a joint police facility with Old Dominion. The facility, which would be located adjacent to the ODU campus, would serve as the city's Third Precinct and headquarters for ODU Police. This effort is now underway and we will keep the campus informed as final details are approved.



    Even with an increased police and sheriff’s office presence, I want to remind students, faculty and staff that we also need your help to keep our campus safe. Remember to practice these safety measures:



    • utilize our after-hours Safe Ride and Escort Services programs;

    • lock your car and don't leave valuable items in sight;

    • keep your dorm room and apartment doors locked;

    • do not prop open building doors or hold open residence hall doors for people you don't know;

    • keep your porch lights on to help illuminate neighborhood streets; and

    • report any suspicious activity to campus police immediately at 683-4000.



    Thank you.



    Sincerely,



    John R. Broderick

    President
    "
    Last edited by CRF250rider1000; 09-22-2010 at 09:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Already have a 3 page response which I plan to hand deliver tomorrow.

    Originally thought about seeing who I could get to sign it, then took it in another direction.
    Last edited by t33j; 09-22-2010 at 11:35 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    i received this email as well....

    You know, they send out these alerts ~30 minutes AFTER everything happens. someone could be getting stabbed up the road right now and you wont know to look out for it for another half an hour.

    Lets have the police officers take care of the sheeple since they arent allowed to take care of themselves :rolls eyes:

    Officials of this nature really urk me. All i can do is sigh and shake my head when i read stuff like this.....

  4. #4
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Post I Sent the Following Email to [ODU President] John Broderick

    You know what would REALLY deter criminals? Not disarming your students and faculty by policy.

    Armed, law-abiding citizens are the single greatest deterrent to criminal activity. That is a statistical FACT. All of the policies and assurances do nothing to protect defenseless young men and women (and their instructors) from a criminal intent on committing a criminal act. The simple fact is that criminals do not obey the law but by creating policies which force your staff and students to go about defenseless or risk expulsion/termination from your institution you provide an environment ripe for the criminal element in which to operate.

    I strongly urge you to reconsider your policies regarding lawful carry of personal defensive weapons. In the hands of your faculty and students they could do more to deter crime than any other act of political maneuvering.

    ODU's students, along with those of other Virginia institutions of higher-learning, are the future of the Commonwealth and they deserve to be treated with the respect and trust, as well as instructed in the responsibilities which come with being a citizen of our great state. One of those responsibilities is taking an active part in their own self-defense and self-determination.

    Co-opting that responsibility to the Norfolk and Campus Police, as well as the Norfolk Sheriff's Department, will only lull them into a false sense of security until the next calamity or catastrophe that the police aren't able to respond to in a timely fashion.

    It's time to reevaluate university policy and strongly consider acceding to the laws of our Commonwealth, the laws which our General Assembly has deemed appropriate for all other venues and locations throughout the state as acceptable and proper.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Thanks wylde. I'll post mine when I get a response.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Thanks wylde. I'll post mine when I get a response.
    And I sent it from my @odu.edu address.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    And I sent it from my @odu.edu address.
    I look forward to reading the response, if there is one. IF they respond, it will just be more touchy-feely bullchips about how dangerous guns are and how they don't "mix" with education. What a load of manure. God help them if something happens to MY daughter.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    someone should remind the people at ODU that less than 1% of ALL crime is witnessed by an on-duty police officer, more police won't help. Learned that in my Intro to Criminal Justice class! :-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    i received this email as well....

    You know, they send out these alerts ~30 minutes AFTER everything happens. someone could be getting stabbed up the road right now and you wont know to look out for it for another half an hour.

    Lets have the police officers take care of the sheeple since they arent allowed to take care of themselves :rolls eyes:

    Officials of this nature really urk me. All i can do is sigh and shake my head when i read stuff like this.....
    30 minutes is pretty damn good. JMU didn't send out the e-mails for 2-3 days. I'm not sure if GMU even sends out e-mails. If they do, then there hasn't been any crime here since I started at Mason last spring.

  10. #10
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    quantified

    I happened to be waiting outside a while ago for some people on 49th street... OCing of course. I noticed a huge increase in escort cars with orange strobe type lights over a couple weeks ago. One drove by probably every 3 or 4 minutes. Seems students are a little scared... I got to wondering about how much police presence had actually been increased, so I got on my bike and found out.

    On the roughly 2 mile perimeter of campus, I observed 3 pairs of Norfolk Deputies (who would not otherwise be there). I saw one ODU PD officer on foot who looked more like he was running errands than patrolling. Outside of that perimeter (South of 43rd, and North of 49th), I detected absolutely no increase in police presence. That is, I didn't run into any. Dunno if any noticed my gun.

    I wonder how much it costs to have the Norfolk Deputies on patrol at ODU instead of performing duties normally delegated to them?
    Last edited by t33j; 09-25-2010 at 11:32 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    You know what would REALLY deter criminals? Not disarming your students and faculty by policy.

    Armed, law-abiding citizens are the single greatest deterrent to criminal activity. That is a statistical FACT. All of the policies and assurances do nothing to protect defenseless young men and women (and their instructors) from a criminal intent on committing a criminal act. The simple fact is that criminals do not obey the law but by creating policies which force your staff and students to go about defenseless or risk expulsion/termination from your institution you provide an environment ripe for the criminal element in which to operate.

    I strongly urge you to reconsider your policies regarding lawful carry of personal defensive weapons. In the hands of your faculty and students they could do more to deter crime than any other act of political maneuvering.

    ODU's students, along with those of other Virginia institutions of higher-learning, are the future of the Commonwealth and they deserve to be treated with the respect and trust, as well as instructed in the responsibilities which come with being a citizen of our great state. One of those responsibilities is taking an active part in their own self-defense and self-determination.

    Co-opting that responsibility to the Norfolk and Campus Police, as well as the Norfolk Sheriff's Department, will only lull them into a false sense of security until the next calamity or catastrophe that the police aren't able to respond to in a timely fashion.

    It's time to reevaluate university policy and strongly consider acceding to the laws of our Commonwealth, the laws which our General Assembly has deemed appropriate for all other venues and locations throughout the state as acceptable and proper.
    Nice.. I like it so much, I am gonna copy it and put it in a post card to him.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  12. #12
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    somewhat redacted

    Mr. Broderick,

    There is a difference between feeling safe, and being safe. The former is only weakly correlated with the latter. A prime example is the massacre at Virginia Tech in 2007. I wonder how many students were concerned for their safety in the hours before they or their classmates were murdered. I'll bet very few if any at all. I do not aim to suggest that a deranged killer loose on campus is anywhere near as common an occurrence as is armed robbery, or home invasion on and around the Old Dominion University campus. However the difference between perception of safety and actual safety is the same.

    Armed robbery for instance, is inherently a threat to the life of a victim. Quite an effective means for coercing cooperation I'd say. That is especially so when the victim is guaranteed to be disarmed with no means to adequately defend himself. ODU provides a victim rich environment by requiring that students and faculty be disarmed while on ODU property. Criminals are preying on students and faculty who they know are unarmed and are not likely to fight back.

    Virginia state law does not prohibit the carry of firearms on University property (or almost anywhere else in the state). ODU policy is the only thing preventing students and faculty from exercising their right to carry a firearm in defense of their life. One of our fundamental civil rights has been stripped as a condition of setting foot on ODU property. As I understand, you have little or no power to change this directly.

    It turns out the situation is still not described in its entirety. Part of the problem is that many students live off campus in areas where criminal activity is rampant and expected. The Safe Ride service is not a solution. Is the University willing to provide a ride to and from every class for every student who lives off campus? What about escorts for those who live in England House? ODU can not guarantee that any area on, or off campus is safe any time such an area is occupied by students. Further, by prohibiting firearms on campus, they are prohibited for the trip to and from campus for those who bike or walk. That includes essentially everybody off campus in the surrounding neighborhoods.

    By denying students and faculty the ability to defend themselves, the University has taken on the responsibility of their defense. It has failed miserably, but I can't truthfully say that I expect better. In all honesty the “recent spate of crime around the campus” is nothing new. I do not fault the ODU police for that. They have no hope of being everywhere all the time. How often do they interrupt an armed robbery or murder in progress? Extraordinarily rarely. The police are a reactive force. I've heard of ODU's effort to increase patrols and also of its absurd suggestions to “exercise caution”, and “take precautions”. I'm sure the scope of the next increase in police presence is above and beyond what has been tried before, but I am equally sure that crime will not be eradicated from the ODU campus or its surroundings.

    I am always everywhere I am, and lack only the tool necessary for my defense while on campus. How ridiculous that I am not prohibited from possessing a firearm while on the sidewalks of Hampton Boulevard, or 49th street, but am barred from that act a few feet to the left or right. The most recent incidents make clear what has always been evinced by those familiar with laws and policies concerning the prohibition of firearms; criminals do not make a distinction between on campus and off campus. By prohibiting firearms on campus ODU disarms “only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.” (Thomas Jefferson on Crimes and Punishments)

    What all this amounts to is that ODU does not trust its students or faculty to posses firearms. All of the 10 or so students I know personally who carry a firearm have passed a background check, are trained in the operation and handling of their firearms, and are quite proficient. Thanks to this area's large military population, some have additional military qualifications as well. I can't speak for the more than 150 members of the Students For Concealed Carry on the ODU campus Facebook group who I have not had the pleasure of meeting. On the point of widespread carry on campus, I don't want to get distracted with qualifications because the main point is that our RIGHT to carry a firearm has been infringed by ODU (which receives much public funding oddly enough), and that infringement isn't doing anything to prevent crime.

    So, whereas the campus of Old Dominion University and the surrounding area where I live is not safe and has been repeatedly subject to violent crimes in the past years that I have attended ODU;

    and whereas criminals (historically) pay no heed to campus boundaries or “gun free” zones;

    and whereas the ODU Police Department which has been tasked with ensuring the safety of ODU students and faculty is not adequate and will never be around to defend me as often as I am;

    and whereas my right to lawfully possess a firearm on ODU property as a student has been barred by the ODU Board of Visitors Policy 1013-1;

    and whereas the ODU Board of Visitors Policy 1013-1 prevents me from possessing a firearm while traveling to and from campus, often to and from buildings late at night as is required by my senior engineering curriculum when many crimes seem to occur;

    and whereas the escort service is not a practical solution due to the inability of unarmed escorts to defend me any better than I can, and due to the sheer demand it would place on the escort service in transporting myself to and from all classes and other obligations I have on campus, and due to the lack of convenience as a result of the wait time (which is remedied by a simpler solution);

    and whereas the ODU Board of Visitors Policy 1013-4 allows for exceptions to be made from the prohibition of firearms on campus by the University President;

    and whereas I hold a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit;

    and whereas I am demonstrably competent with my firearms and their defensive use, and I have been trained in the legal matters surrounding the use of a firearm;

    and whereas I have passed numerous background checks (Virginia State, NCIS, Department of Defense for employment), have no conditions which would prohibit me from carrying a firearm, and pose no threat to the safety of other students;

    I therefore request an exemption be made in my case that would allow me to carry a firearm while on ODU property so that I may adequately defend myself on campus and for the trips to and from campus.

    I would love to discuss this topic further in writing or in person and look forward to your response.

    Sincerely,
    Me
    [Insert various academic facts about me, and a bit on carrying]



    P.S. I am curious if an exemption has ever been made per 1013-4, or if anyone has even bothered to try.
    Response from the Associate University Counsel who seems to respond to anything I send to the University:

    I got nothing more than what I expected.

    The President has reviewed the request to carry and must decline your request for failure to show good cause under the BOV Policy 1013. Generally, approval has been limited to sworn officers that are required by their employer to carry their issued weapons at all times.

    Sincerely Yours,
    James D. Wright
    Associate University Counsel
    Of course we know that those employees don't need the approval of the University to be on ODU property.
    Last edited by t33j; 10-01-2010 at 02:27 AM.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I am disgusted by how they can at the same time consider themselves an institute of "higher learning" and be simultaneously so blatantly obtuse and oblivious to the TRUTH.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteXD View Post
    someone should remind the people at ODU that less than 1% of ALL crime is witnessed by an on-duty police officer, more police won't help. Learned that in my Intro to Criminal Justice class! :-P
    they don't care. That is the issue.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The fact of the matter is that increased police presence in a community actually correlate DIRECTLY with massive INCREASES in violent crime...

    There has been a nearly 500% increase in the number of sworn officers in the US (Mostly in large, urban cities) since the 1950s. Violent crime has risen dramatically in those areas.

    There are more police per capita in Chicago, LA, NYC, Philadelphia, and DC than most cities in the USA--and yet their violent crime rate remains two to three times higher than the national average, and has been increasing steadily since the 1960s (with the exception of a few dips in recent years).

    Conversely, cities and states who allow law-abiding citizens to defend themselves--and not rely on the police to rescue or protect them (which they are neither legally required to do, or physically capable of doing) have seen dramatic reductions in violent crime, and have been trending downward for the last 2 decades (mainly since the widespread institution of "Shall Issue" laws, and adoption of "Castle Doctrine" laws).

    Cities which do not allow law-abiding citizens to defend themselves (either through outright bans, or egregious and discriminatory policies) ALSO seem to be the same cities with exponential growth in their police forces--and an equally shocking growth in violent crime.

    The establishment of GFZs (schools, malls, public buildings, etc) has not gone unnoticed by the insane, the criminal, and the sociopathic. EVERY single mass-shooting in the US in the last 3 decades has happened in an officially designated "Victim Disarmament Zone". Columbine, VA Tech, NIU at Dekalb, 2 different Amish Schools, Ft. Hood, Lubys in TX, etc. etc. etc...

    More cops = more crime.

    More guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens = less crime.

    This isn't rocket science, folks...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 10-02-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The fact of the matter is that increased police presence in a community actually correlate DIRECTLY with massive INCREASES in violent crime...

    There has been a nearly 500% increase in the number of sworn officers in the US (Mostly in large, urban cities) since the 1950s. Violent crime has risen dramatically in those areas.

    There are more police per capita in Chicago, LA, NYC, Philadelphia, and DC than most cities in the USA--and yet their violent crime rate remains two to three times higher than the national average, and has been increasing steadily since the 1960s (with the exception of a few dips in recent years).

    Conversely, cities and states who allow law-abiding citizens to defend themselves--and not rely on the police to rescue or protect them (which they are neither legally required to do, or physically capable of doing) have seen dramatic reductions in violent crime, and have been trending downward for the last 2 decades (mainly since the widespread institution of "Shall Issue" laws, and adoption of "Castle Doctrine" laws).

    Cities which do not allow law-abiding citizens to defend themselves (either through outright bans, or egregious and discriminatory policies) ALSO seem to be the same cities with exponential growth in their police forces--and an equally shocking growth in violent crime.

    The establishment of GFZs (schools, malls, public buildings, etc) has not gone unnoticed by the insane, the criminal, and the sociopathic. EVERY single mass-shooting in the US in the last 3 decades has happened in an officially designated "Victim Disarmament Zone". Columbine, VA Tech, NIU at Dekalb, 2 different Amish Schools, Ft. Hood, Lubys in TX, etc. etc. etc...

    More cops = more crime.

    More guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens = less crime.

    This isn't rocket science, folks...
    But wait! This doesn't account for all those illegal guns in the hands of criminals (which of course, come pouring through those pesky gun show loopholes). Surely all those guns in the hands of all those criminals has some impact on these crime stats, such as the need to hire more police because there are fewer guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, er victims, of these thugs! Yes, I see it now! Fewer guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens requires more police because crime is up! Supply and demand!

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