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Thread: Kirkland altercation & charges

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Kirkland altercation & charges

    Hi -

    I got this eMail from a Kirkland activist the other night. Any thoughts / help you can give? Thanks! )

    ____________________________________

    On August 8th, I wandered upon an altercation between the dock master at Marina Park in Kirkland, WA. When I witnessed a man slap a woman who was trying to get back on the boat and determined that the dock master already had the police on the phone, I started recording video to help corroborate the story for the dock master should these men have attacked him. As the action moved on, I started to follow. However, because I had just injured my ankle two days previous, I was paying more attention to the ground under my feet than how close i was getting to the action. When I realized I had caught up with everyone, I spun around and backed away from them. At this point, the men realized I was recording and assocated me with the dock master. One man came directly at me and the other man walked to my right flank -- leaving me no where to run even if I were capable (again, I was wearing an ankle support and couldn't run). I yelled for hte men to back up four times before the closest man -- already at arms length -- took another step toward me and started reaching for his pocket. Not knowing what he was going to do, and assuming he was going to follow up on his previous threats, I drew my concealed firearm and yelled for them to back up again. This had the desired effect so I holstered my firearm immediately. As I did, I could hear the dock master tell the police there was a man with a gun at the scene. I yelled "I have a concealed permit" so they didn't think it was a random thug. My video unfortunately cut out at this point.

    I reached to unlock my cell phone ot start recording again, and at this point the men realized that it wasn't my firearm I was holding toward them, but my cell phone. This emboldened them and they began attacking me again, Circling me, yelling at me, taunting me. I did not draw my firearm again as it was no longer safe to do so. The police arrived but past us up. The men started shouting that I was in trouble now -- that I was done. I began backing away from the men as best as I could to get to where the police had gone. When the police arrived, I cooperated fully with them. The man who was going to assault me fled and got away. The other man was arrested, but released without charge as far as I know.


    The police arrested me fro 9.41.270 -- displaying a weapon. The prosecutor has refused to meet with my attorney to review the video. He told my attorney in email today that there would be no deal other than to let me plead guilty and I would walk with no jail time. The problem is that this would give me a criminal history, potentially giving me employment issues in the future. It would also prevent me from getting my concealed permit back. I'm not sure what affect it would have on my ability to purchase firearms in the future either.

    I'm welcome any advice you have.

  2. #2
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    Contact a lawyer IMMEDIATELY.
    You didn't read the whole thing?

    Sounds like a disparity of force situation to me, but who knows?
    Last edited by deanf; 09-24-2010 at 06:58 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayd1981 View Post
    Contact a lawyer IMMEDIATELY.
    Did you miss the part where the prosecutor won't meet with "his attorney"? Also the part where the prosecutor told "his attorney" there'd be no deals?

    In hindsight one might draw the conclusion that since he was not directly involved with the altercation he should have remained at a distance and just observed. Taping is nice but this incident reveals how it can get one "more involved".

    I wish this person well on his "day in Court". Hopefully there was enough recorded to make a believer of the Judge or Jury if it comes to that. It's important to note that this was not a case where someone was cited for merely Open Carrying, it is a situation where the person was cited for actually drawing and pointing a weapon. The tough part will be convincing the "Court" that it was justified.

    BTW, are there Security Cameras in the Marina Park. If so, the defendant or his attorney should obtain the "tapes". Likewise for any business security cameras that might also be in the area. In this day and age there are so many cameras out there recording what we do one even needs to be careful where they "scratch". Never know if it might show up on the internet some day.
    Last edited by amlevin; 09-24-2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Correcting mis-statement
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I wish RayeHawk well on his "day in Court"
    He's not the defendant. Come on people, pay attention.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    He's not the defendant. Come on people, pay attention.
    Your're right. I overlooked that part. Mea Culpa.

    I edited my post to correct this error.
    Last edited by amlevin; 09-24-2010 at 07:09 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Ok, my reading comprehension is lacking today. Sorry, please forgive my errors, I will submit to my lashes. I guess if I were in that unfortunate situation, I would wait for my day in court. As mentioned there is a disparity in force. If its several guys against me, then I would feel in danger of life and limb.

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    My only advice to the OP is make sure the attorney reads this and understands it.

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    Red face RayeHawk is a grrl

    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    He's not the defendant. Come on people, pay attention.

    ACtually, RayeHawk is a grrrl - Nama (grandma) to 2 doll babies. Married. Old. Libertarian. Carry a Taurus Titanium .38 Spl. That's the 14oz blue 5 shot revolver.

    Have attended an Appleseed event (with my purple .22) - ready to go again. )

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    I hate to sound overly suspicious, but this whole thing sounds fishy.

    Why would someone be seeking advice by e-mail after having retained an attorney? He does not mention that he distrusts his attorney, or is looking for another.

    What sort of activist is this guy? Gun rights? Privacy? Police Accountability? Domestic Violence Prevention? Smaller Hooks for Game Fish?

    What sort of "earlier" threats was the writer afraid were going to be acted on? None are mentioned.

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    dead link

    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    My only advice to the OP is make sure the attorney reads this and understands it.

    That's a dead link - can you repost? Thanks ! ;o)

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    Link works for me, but here is the un-parsed URL:

    http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/0/f5...c?OpenDocument

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Hire a different attorney. I'd suggest www.jhblawyer.com

    It'll cost your friend 5k if things go easy, 15-20k min if it goes to trial.

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    Seems to me the dock master would make a good witness for the person doing the taping. If it were me I would certainly be making contact with the dock master.

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I hate to sound overly suspicious, but this whole thing sounds fishy.

    Why would someone be seeking advice by e-mail after having retained an attorney? He does not mention that he distrusts his attorney, or is looking for another.

    What sort of activist is this guy? Gun rights? Privacy? Police Accountability? Domestic Violence Prevention? Smaller Hooks for Game Fish?

    What sort of "earlier" threats was the writer afraid were going to be acted on? None are mentioned.
    If this is "fishy" I wonder how long it will be before the plea for donations to assist with hiring a new, or paying for the old, attorney? Of course it could be legit but how does one know?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Hire a different attorney. I'd suggest www.jhblawyer.com

    It'll cost your friend 5k if things go easy, 15-20k min if it goes to trial.
    Here is a site that allows one to pick a Criminal Attorney based on Client Reviews (in other words, were their clients satisfied on their work).
    http://www.avvo.com/criminal-defense...ient_reviews=1
    John Henry Browne might be good but he also has had some issues with "misconduct. There are a lot more that are free of this "misconduct" reference with near perfect ratings by their clients. They probably don't charge as much for their "fame" as old JHB does. (note:In 2006, the Washington State Bar admonished Browne as part of a settlement of ethics charges stemming from his overcharging a client by $30,000 to $40,000)

    He goes for the high profile cases and is currently "starring" in the "Colton Harris-Moore Affair".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Here is a site that allows one to pick a Criminal Attorney based on Client Reviews (in other words, were their clients satisfied on their work).
    http://www.avvo.com/criminal-defense...ient_reviews=1
    John Henry Browne might be good but he also has had some issues with "misconduct. There are a lot more that are free of this "misconduct" reference with near perfect ratings by their clients. They probably don't charge as much for their "fame" as old JHB does. (note:In 2006, the Washington State Bar admonished Browne as part of a settlement of ethics charges stemming from his overcharging a client by $30,000 to $40,000)

    He goes for the high profile cases and is currently "starring" in the "Colton Harris-Moore Affair".
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: No lawyer bashing

    Pick the one that will put the best scare into the DA and roll the dice. IMHO, for the Seattle area, that is John Brown. That's exactly because he handles the highest profile cases (Ted Bundy, Sen. Ted Stevens, Martin Pang, etc.).

    Personally I don't care if he sold his soul to the devil at some point in the past, and regularly sacrifices chickens. I would want the attorney most likely to make the charges go away.

    Getting someone like Gerry Spence, Johnnie Cochran or Alan Dershowitz is simply unrealistic. They are nationally renowed figures: generally not available, and not affordable. But JHB is the big fish in our small local pond, and can be had by any common Joe with modest means. The local DAs know his name, and generally want to avoid him in court imho.

    But lawyers are like shoes. Find the one that you're comfortable with and stick with it. Do your own due diligence. The OP asked for advice and I just offered what I thought was the best route to take It sounds like the guy screwed up on many levels, and came on the radar of a ***** DA. That's a bad combo.

    *My apologies to scum sucking, bottom feeding fish. I don't mean to disparage thier good name and description by the comparison of them to lawyers. It's just an "if the shoe fits..." kind of comparison. I could have also said "parasitic leeches that have virtually zero redeemable qualities
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 09-24-2010 at 10:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    SNIP *My apologies to scum sucking, bottom feeding fish. I don't mean to disparage thier good name and description by the comparison of them to lawyers. It's just an "if the shoe fits..." kind of comparison. I could have also said "parasitic leeches that have virtually zero redeemable qualities
    You do know the owners of this site are lawyers, right? No, I'm serious. They are.

    It was nice knowing you, Dave.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You do know the owners of this site are lawyers, right? No, I'm serious. They are.

    It was nice knowing you, Dave.
    /meh

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    Getting someone like Gerry Spence, Johnnie Cochran or Alan Dershowitz is simply unrealistic. They are nationally renowed figures: generally not available,
    Yeah, Cochran has been unreachable by anyone for several years . . . .

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I hate to sound overly suspicious, but this whole thing sounds fishy.

    Why would someone be seeking advice by e-mail after having retained an attorney? He does not mention that he distrusts his attorney, or is looking for another.

    What sort of activist is this guy? Gun rights? Privacy? Police Accountability? Domestic Violence Prevention? Smaller Hooks for Game Fish?

    What sort of "earlier" threats was the writer afraid were going to be acted on? None are mentioned.
    I know the person in question. I have seen the video of the confrontation, and know why he's asking. In short, he's scared because Kirkland PD don't have the best intentions in his eyes, and he's not sure he can get an unbiased jury in the Kirkland area. He's seeking reassurance that it's the best course of action to proceed with defending rather than seeking a plea bargain. They have taken away his gun, and are pursuing charges despite the fact he clearly acted in self-defense (as in, watching the video, he's outmatched 5 to 1 and they're saying "you wanna brawl, put the camera down" and stuff like that). The prosecutor does not seem interested in seeing the video which very clearly shows this is a self-defense claim, preferring to seek charges.

    Consider your reaction and "I'm not sure". How would you feel if other second amendment and article 1 section 24 supporters were questioning whether you acted in self-defense? Basically, there's nothing fishy, he's just scared and in a vulnerable place right now, for acting in a manner that looks to me to be 100% self-defense.

    Was just talking to him about this, and here's his words:
    I'm just so scared. Government has always scared me. When I was a kid, I grew up in a very corrupt town. Police used their power to rob retailers in the area and there was no recourse for normal folks. I grew up in a town where violence was an everyday thing. I've run my whole life and managed to stay away from trouble -- no drugs, no crimes, not even a big fan of alcohol because I've seen rational people do stupid things while drunk...

    and now, here I am going face to face with one of my biggest fears after defending myself from a previous threat.
    Last edited by Tawnos; 09-25-2010 at 02:07 AM.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Wheres the video, I didnt see a link posted?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    SNIP I know the person in question...
    Thank you for the additional info.

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    If it goes to trial, the prosecutor will have difficulty keeping the video out of the courtroom. The jury will surely see it then.
    Last edited by j2l3; 09-25-2010 at 02:30 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Wheres the video, I didnt see a link posted?
    I believe he's only shared it with a few people at the advice of his attorney. Even if not, I'm not going to link it out of respect to his wishes.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  25. #25
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    understood..
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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