Important Open Carry Event: Manhattan Beach Open Carry Fair

hgreen · Sep 26, 2010

The controversy is still hot as the city has still not given a definitive answer as to whether they will respect our 1st and 2nd amendment rights where they should be by Federal and State law.

We do NOT back down and we WILL be open carrying at the fair where it IS legal to do so.

If there is one Open Carry event for you to attend this year, this is the event!

We will all meet-up before heading to the fair at The Coffee Bean in Manhattan Beach PROMPTLY at 1pm October 2nd.
Once gathered we will head to the fair where we will enjoy the festivities and spread the word about open carry.

Please see further details where you can add the event to your google calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/ren.../Los_Angeles&gsessionid=OK&sf=true&output=xml

Also visit our facebook event page for updates: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=128584453859941&ref=mf

We will be having some of the very early adopters of open carry from San Diego attending the fair with us as well as other open carry patriots from Nor Cal and the Bay Area. This is going to be a truly awesome open carry event and you should not miss it!

aadvark · Sep 26, 2010

Good Luck on your Open Carry Event!

ConditionThree · Sep 26, 2010

This event is already frought with controversy with the fair officials and police department attempting to pre-empt and discourage lawful behavior. I think that posting your intent to defy their wishes in public only gives them ample opportunity to make preparations for exactly how they are going to react.

Were it me, I dont think I would have publically announced my plans-

As with my outing to the Asphalt Cowboys fundraising BBQ, I told a select few here at OCDO that I was going, invited a friend and showed up unannounced. I had the benefit of not having alerted the police department and the organization of my plans in advance and through this, I didnt give them the opportunity to tell me 'no' or for them to draw a line in the sand. I decretely open carried in a public park with about 300-500 people within spitting distance. No police. No one questioning what I was doing there with a gun.

Now that your cat is out of the bag, the police have probably determined what they are going do to deal with open carriers barging in on their fair. This may include added patrol in the immediate vicinity of the fair or 'plainclothes' officers set out as spotters near every point of ingress. To me, this precludes anyone 'solo' open carrying and necessitates a deliberate and crafty change in tactics. While they prepare for the obvious, your group (if its determined to plod forward) should change their plans to something that is unanticipated by police.

Ca Patriot · Sep 26, 2010

A personal friend of mine knows the police chief of MB and says he is pretty liberal. The city council and mayor of MB are EXTREMELY liberal.

I would procede with caution in that city.

hgreen · Sep 26, 2010

ConditionThree said:
This event is already frought with controversy with the fair officials and police department attempting to pre-empt and discourage lawful behavior. I think that posting your intent to defy their wishes in public only gives them ample opportunity to make preparations for exactly how they are going to react.

Were it me, I dont think I would have publically announced my plans-

As with my outing to the Asphalt Cowboys fundraising BBQ, I told a select few here at OCDO that I was going, invited a friend and showed up unannounced. I had the benefit of not having alerted the police department and the organization of my plans in advance and through this, I didnt give them the opportunity to tell me 'no' or for them to draw a line in the sand. I decretely open carried in a public park with about 300-500 people within spitting distance. No police. No one questioning what I was doing there with a gun.

Now that your cat is out of the bag, the police have probably determined what they are going do to deal with open carriers barging in on their fair. This may include added patrol in the immediate vicinity of the fair or 'plainclothes' officers set out as spotters near every point of ingress. To me, this precludes anyone 'solo' open carrying and necessitates a deliberate and crafty change in tactics. While they prepare for the obvious, your group (if its determined to plod forward) should change their plans to something that is unanticipated by police.

If you have an alternate means of inviting a large group of open carriers to an event, please let me know.

I have posted nothing about our plans to enter the fair. I have simply posted that we will meet at a coffee shop at 1pm. Who knows what we'll do from there

This is not a half-baked plan. There has been weeks of planning among many parties and legal entities going into this. The key now is to have a large turn-out of open carriers.

ConditionThree · Sep 27, 2010

hgreen said:
If you have an alternate means of inviting a large group of open carriers to an event, please let me know.

I have posted nothing about our plans to enter the fair. I have simply posted that we will meet at a coffee shop at 1pm. Who knows what we'll do from there

This is not a half-baked plan. There has been weeks of planning among many parties and legal entities going into this. The key now is to have a large turn-out of open carriers.

I apologize- I was under the impression that the coffee shop venue was in the area where the fair was being held.

As for alternate means of inviting large groups of open carriers to an event... I cant suggest anything, as I dont think that groups of 5, 10, 20, or more is a natural expression of open carry or an example of what Californians should be expected to digest at this time. As I have recommended elsewhere, I would go the other direction... a mass event of open carriers spread in pairs or threes in different areas and at different times across their entire jurisdiction.

I'll be honest- I dont know what you have planned or what extent this has been thought through. But the expectation of a large turn out event kind of concerns me, in light of this last legislative session.

hgreen · Sep 27, 2010

ConditionThree said:
I dont think that groups of 5, 10, 20, or more is a natural expression of open carry or an example of what Californians should be expected to digest at this time.

That might work well elsewhere in CA. But in the metropolis of LA you can open carry with one or two other folks and be totally unnoticed. At nearly every event we have held most people don't even notice you are OCing unless you force them to focus on your holster area.

When I OC individually or with my wife we hardly ever see anyone even look twice or ask us what we are doing. Its only been when we have a huge group or a booth with a sign that people come up and ask any questions or seem to notice.

We also do not get any news coverage for just one or two people showing up. Right now any news coverage here that lets people know what OC is, is helpful.

But that's just my experience here in LA.

JJ · Sep 27, 2010

Exposure and Education

I think we need more events like this. This is the only way we are going educate the masses. At the same time the local jurisdictions where these events are being held are learning people are standing up for their rights and will not tolerate assaults on these constitutionally guaranteed rights.

I've been involved in several large organized meet ups and most passerby's have no idea that UOC is legal and that no permit is required. A good percentage of these people are interested in exercising the rights afforded them under the second amendment but just need the information and guidance to get them started.

I also believe the more exposure we get the more comfortable "newbies" will be to get involved, ask questions, and in turn educate others. The more OCers out there exercising their rights the quicker we will gain acceptance and it will be the norm.

Decoligny · Sep 27, 2010

Deleted

hgreen · Sep 27, 2010

Decoligny said:
This event is being held on Valley Drive, between 15th and 21st Streets.

Hermosa Valley Elementary School is located at 1645 Valley Drive.

The distance from the apparent edge of the School property to 21st Street is just a hair over 1,000 feet.

Looks like essentailly the entire fair is being held in a Gun Free School Zone.

While I am indeed a proponent of Open Carry, I strongly urge you, DO NOT ATTEND THIS EVENT while Open Carrying.

Know your surroundings, and know where the school zones are, BEFORE putting on your gun.

Hermosa Valley Elementary School teaches grades 2 through 8.
It is currently providing instruction to children in those grades.

1645 Valley Drive is located almost in the middle of the fair.

It is well under 1,000 feet from 15th Street, and it is approximately 1,050 feet from 21st Street.

These measurements are ESTIMATES and could EASILY be OVERESTIMATES.

F..........................................F
A.....V A L L E Y D R I V E.......A
I..15.16.1645.17.18.19.20.21..I
R.........................................R

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5028612&posted=1#post5028612

More FUD from Calguns.

He does not even know what city the Fair is being held in.

Here's a map for everyone: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...r:h,7179077516785921664,33.890506,-118.404926
Fair is in Manhattan Beach, the school he speaks of is in Hermosa Beach, 1.7 miles from the Fair area.

Decoligny · Sep 27, 2010

DISREGARD my previous post.

I mis-googlemapped and got the wrong 15th Street - 21st Street on Valley Drive.

My apologies, just trying to keep fellow UOCers from ending up with Felony charges.

Decoligny · Sep 27, 2010

hgreen said:
More FUD from Calguns.

He does not even know what city the Fair is being held in.

Here's a map for everyone: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...r:h,7179077516785921664,33.890506,-118.404926
Fair is in Manhattan Beach, the school he speaks of is in Hermosa Beach, 1.7 miles from the Fair area.

Be a little more careful with the FUD label. I became a member here LONG before I was a member a CALGUNS.

You have probably seen or used the tri-fold "California - Open Carry No License Required YES, IT'S LEGAL!" pamphlet.
Well, I put that together.

I am NOT saying do not open carry. I made a mistake on google map, and reacted with the best interest of Gun Owner and Open Carriers in mind.

My intent was never to induce Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt. You will have also noticed that in my CalGuns posts, I stated CLEARLY, "Always verify for yourself".

Please remove the post as I have done on CalGuns.

hgreen · Sep 27, 2010

Decoligny said:
Be a little more careful with the FUD label. I became a member here LONG before I was a member a CALGUNS.

You have probably seen or used the tri-fold "California - Open Carry No License Required YES, IT'S LEGAL!" pamphlet.
Well, I put that together.

I am NOT saying do not open carry. I made a mistake on google map, and reacted with the best interest of Gun Owner and Open Carriers in mind.

My intent was never to induce Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt. You will have also noticed that in my CalGuns posts, I stated CLEARLY, "Always verify for yourself".

I apologize if I seem a little quick to say FUD.
My experience has been on Calguns that the vast majority of posts DO NOT even read the content of the message or attached documents before making rash statements that are totally out of context and incorrect.
Sorry if I'm a little tired of that type of behavior.
I am certainly tolerant of errors on the side of caution but making huge "DO NOT DO X Y OR Z " posts as a result of not taking ones own advice and double checking, is a little hypocritical.

Decoligny · Sep 27, 2010

hgreen said:
I apologize if I seem a little quick to say FUD.
My experience has been on Calguns that the vast majority of posts DO NOT even read the content of the message or attached documents before making rash statements that are totally out of context and incorrect.
Sorry if I'm a little tired of that type of behavior.
I am certainly tolerant of errors on the side of caution but making huge "DO NOT DO X Y OR Z " posts as a result of not taking ones own advice and double checking, is a little hypocritical.

Sometime some of the newer UOCers do not simply take notice of an "I wouldn't do that" kind of post.

I have no problem with anyone saying I am wrong, when I am wrong.

I just need to learn to read a map a little better. I put Manhattan Beach into googlemaps, and then zoomed straight into Valley Drive, just happened to unwittingly cross the Hermosa Beach city limits when I zoomed in.

ConditionThree · Sep 27, 2010

hgreen said:
That might work well elsewhere in CA. But in the metropolis of LA you can open carry with one or two other folks and be totally unnoticed. At nearly every event we have held most people don't even notice you are OCing unless you force them to focus on your holster area.

When I OC individually or with my wife we hardly ever see anyone even look twice or ask us what we are doing. Its only been when we have a huge group or a booth with a sign that people come up and ask any questions or seem to notice.

We also do not get any news coverage for just one or two people showing up. Right now any news coverage here that lets people know what OC is, is helpful.

But that's just my experience here in LA.

This works everywhere* in California. I think it is freakin' awesome that you can open carry in L.A. without being noticed. The objective to openly carrying a firearm is to go about your business like any other day- in other words NOT being noticed for the crowd of open carriers congregated in and around a coffee shop is a win.

But to plan such a congregation at a location and a time where the authorities have already indicated they are going to enforce the wishes of the fair organizers to the maximum extent they are able- nevermind the absence of an applicable statute, is going to fan the embers of AB1934 anew in another legislative session with a new constituentcy.

Yes, open carry in your area. Yes, pass out fliers. Yes, contribute to the community in education and service. And certainly keep the lines of communication open. But I would say that you will win more converts by maintaining a low key vibe (as was even seen even at Fiesta Hermosa) instead of mustering the largest number of troops to instigate a large response by media and law enforcement.

*except where prohibited by law (eg; gun free school zones, other prohibited areas....)

Iopencarry · Oct 2, 2010

This just in from Harley,

Today's event went extremely well. The police were friendly and cooperative and there were no open carry-related complaints. In fact, the ranking officer told us how much he appreciated our professionalism and that he would help ensure SBOC had its own "official" booth at the Fair next year.

I would assume that he will give more detail at a later time.

ryanburbridge · Oct 2, 2010

Iopencarry said:
This just in from Harley,

Today's event went extremely well. The police were friendly and cooperative and there were no open carry-related complaints. In fact, the ranking officer told us how much he appreciated our professionalism and that he would help ensure SBOC had its own "official" booth at the Fair next year.

I would assume that he will give more detail at a later time.

I just added a new thread for event results. Very good.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?81481-HGreen-hits-a-home-run-A-OC-event.

Important Open Carry Event: Manhattan Beach Open Carry Fair

hgreen

Regular Member

aadvark

Regular Member

ConditionThree

State Pioneer

Ca Patriot

Regular Member

hgreen

Regular Member

ConditionThree

State Pioneer

hgreen

Regular Member

JJ

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

hgreen

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

hgreen

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

ConditionThree

State Pioneer

Iopencarry

Regular Member

ryanburbridge

Regular Member