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Thread: Baraboo Article

  1. #1
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Baraboo Article

    By the way - when giving interviews to reporters I suggest that we suggest to them not to use phrases such as "wearing metal" or "packing heat." These idiotic sayings should stay in the cop-buddy movies that they originated from.

    http://www.wiscnews.com/baraboonewsr...cc4c002e0.html

  2. #2
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    Of course we on OCDO eschew all schlock phrases.

    Strap up and carry on. Over and out.

  3. #3
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anmut View Post
    By the way - when giving interviews to reporters I suggest that we suggest to them not to use phrases such as "wearing metal" or "packing heat." These idiotic sayings should stay in the cop-buddy movies that they originated from.

    http://www.wiscnews.com/baraboonewsr...cc4c002e0.html

    "One issue arose when a Sauk County deputy sheriff visiting the picnic told Marzo people should not remove guns from their holsters when placing them in steel lock boxes while using the bathroom. The deputy asserted taking the guns out would be "brandishing" the weapons and is prohibited, Marzo said. An attorney for West Baraboo said the village did not have to allow people carrying firearms into the public restrooms in the park.

    That limitation caused a hassle for people whose holsters were secured to their side through belt loops, he said. It would have been safer if people had simply been allowed to wear guns to the toilet and avoid the risk of handling the weapons."


    That's exactly our point here. We need laws removed that require us to handle/remove a firearm before getting in/out of a vehicle!

    Creating all of this gun and no gun places, especially the vehicle, need to go.
    The restroom thing is just silly.

    Change the law, WI legislators... it's unsafe to make people handle weapons so much.
    Last edited by xenophon; 09-27-2010 at 10:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    There is no brandishing law in WI though.

    Also, what is a "cowboy style six shooter?" Aren't all revolvers that "style?"
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    There is no brandishing law in WI though.

    Also, what is a "cowboy style six shooter?" Aren't all revolvers that "style?"
    More words that take the readers mind into some sort of movie or TV show they saw that had a gun in it. Control the words, control the people.

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=xenophon;1364654]"One issue arose when a Sauk County deputy sheriff visiting the picnic told Marzo people should not remove guns from their holsters when placing them in steel lock boxes while using the bathroom. The deputy asserted taking the guns out would be "brandishing" the weapons and is prohibited.

    Well upon removing my gun case from the trunk and removing my 1911 from case to holster and inserting the mag. seemed no different than removing the 1911 from holster to lock box minus removing the mag.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfield 1911 View Post
    Well upon removing my gun case from the trunk and removing my 1911 from case to holster and inserting the mag. seemed no different than removing the 1911 from holster to lock box minus removing the mag.
    +1
    Not the first time I heard them make up a law. If that's brandishing, like you said, so is moving from the case to the holster and vice versa. If that's brandishing, it's brandishing every time I walk around with my deer rifle in my hand.

    Besides, we all know that it's the States position that one could "walk down state street with a shotgun"
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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    There is no brandishing law in WI though.

    Also, what is a "cowboy style six shooter?" Aren't all revolvers that "style?"
    The sheriff department determined it was brandishing, and changed the requirements the morning of the picnic. I was not as quick as Huber would have been in putting together an argument to refute the new requirement, had I been, I would have told the Sheriff what another member told me I should have said in the next sentence.

    A member brought up a good point, when I mentioned that we could not take our firearms out of our holster, that we had to put the entire holster in the gun box, he said, whatís the difference between allowing us to take the firearm out of the holster and put it in the gun box, vs. What we do when we encase our firearm for transport in the vehicle. Before getting in our vehicle to drive, we have to take the firearm out of the holster, outside of the vehicle, encase it and store it in our vehicle.

    What they had us do was just stupid, and looking back on it now, Iím going to use the magic work that I allege that the Sauk county Sheriffís office planned it, just to make us jump through more hoops, because, I sent the Sauk County Sheriff a flyer which spelled out in the flyer, our procedure for handling the bathroom issue, but, on the other hand, I donít think it was done to entrap anyone, because I didnít see any sheriffís vehicles in the area after we got going.

    Iím going to send the Sheriff an email explaining the above comparison, and let him know that what his Saturday supervisor had us do was as I said in the News Republic interview, a safety concern, as we already handle the firearm in a similar way when we secure the firearm in the our vehicle, i.e. its pulled out of the holster and put into a case.

    So, with the Sauk County reasoning at the picnic, that it was unsafe to pull the firearm out of the holster, to be put into the gun box, then it is also unsafe to pull your firearm out of the holster to secure it in your vehicle, and you should be able to wear your firearm on your hip in your vehicle.

    You put your firearm on in the morning at the house and take it off at night when you get home, no in-between handling of the firearm, unless you meet the bad guy.

    Maybe, the new sheriff elected will allow us to carry in the restrooms next year.


    Don

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    I observed 1 sheriff, 1 city and 1 unmarked state patrol car pass the area while i ate such wonderful food.

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    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Of course we on OCDO eschew all schlock phrases.

    Strap up and carry on. Over and out.
    This made me laugh (oh wait I'm on the internet, I LOL'd ) Thank you.

  11. #11
    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Email Sent to Sheriff Stammen tonight

    Sheriff Stammen

    On the morning of the open carry picnic September 25th, 2010 an officer ( I donít know who it was) from your department came out to check on what procedures we had in place to handle the issue of not using the restroom while armed. I told him that we had purchased two gun boxes and we plan on taking the firearm out of the holster and secure it in the gun box, where the person would then lock the gun box and take the key with them to the restroom, then after, just reverse the process.

    The sheriff department officer stated he didnít know if that was legal and called his supervisor. The supervisor said it was not acceptable, to take the firearm out of the holster and required us to leave the firearm in the holster and take the entire holster with firearm inside, off and secure it in the gun box.

    Apparently, it was determined by the supervisor on Saturday, September 25th, 2010 that taking the firearm out of the holster and put in a gun box without the holster would be unsafe, and modified our procedures for securing the firearm in the gun box the morning of the picnic.

    I have to ask, is there a difference between, allowing a person to take the firearm out of the holster and storing the firearm in a gun box thatís on a table right in front of you, vs. Pulling the firearm out of our holster, while standing outside next to your vehicle and securing it in a gun case.

    The answer to the question is there is no difference, everyone, before getting in their vehicle, to drive home the day of the picnic, had to take their firearm out of the holster, while standing outside of the vehicle, encase it and secure the firearm in the vehicle.

    Sheriff Stammen, think about the repercussion of your supervisor decision that day meant to those who attended the picnic, whom, most all of them were wisconsincarry.org members and all well versed in the law related to the open carrying of a firearm.

    All of them reasoned, as so did I, and discussed it during the picnic, that if it is considered unsafe to take your firearm out of the holster to secure it in a safe, than it should be also considered unsafe to take your firearm out of the holster, while standing next to your car, to secure the firearm in a gun case.

    If so, than a citizen could reasonably conclude that the supervisorís requirement and reasoning he had for not taking a firearm out of the holster for storage, a local ordinance of West Baraboo.

    Any member attending the picnic that day could have, when they were leaving from the picnic in their vehicle, felt obligated out of a safety concern, to follow the Sauk County supervisor requirement for securing a firearm, and either, stored their firearm in the vehicle with the firearm still in the holster, (because, I doubt the firearm and holster together would fit in the gun case, when originally, only the firearm was in the case when he or she arrived to the picnic) or he or she could have kept the firearm strapped to their side while getting in the vehicle and then drove away without encasing the firearm, again with concern for safety while taking the firearm out of the holster.

    Then, If any attendee to the picnic were to get stopped by Law Enforcement on their way home in Baraboo for any reason, and they were cited for concealed carry, than I would think that they would have a very strong legal argument in defending their concealed carry citation based on the Sauk County Sheriffís Department supervisorís policy for securing a firearm and his or her concern for safety in taking the firearm out of the holster.

    Based on the argument above, we should not have been required to secure both the holster and firearm together in the gun box, which as I discuss above, is contrary to what the current State Law allows us to do when storing the firearm in our vehicle, State Law allows us to take the firearm out of the holster, while standing next to our vehicle and to secure the firearm in a case.

    Additionally, when securing the firearm in the vehicle, there is no State Law restricting the location of the vehicle when we secure our firearm, in otherwords, we could secure our firearm in a crouded Walmart parking lot, so, it isnít a valid argument that we posed a safety concern for any of the people that were using the park, that were not attending the picnic while we were securing the firearm in the gun box..

    Iím sure that whoever attended the picnic secured their firearm in their vehicle in accordance to State Law prior to leaving, just as we followed the Sauk County Sheriffís office requirements during the open carry picnic.

    I do plan on organizing a picnic next year, and I hope that we could open up a dialog withWest Baraboo or you're office to allow us to use the restrooms while armed.



    Don

  12. #12
    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Don, nice persuasive write up. Good facts and thought out argument.

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Nice letter. I don't suppose anyone has considered that maybe some cops just like to mess(several other harsher terms came to mind.) with us?

    Kidding. . .

    Cops wouldn't do that. . . would they?

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Current SAUK County Sheriff === ANTI RIGHTS, you have none.

    And he cannot read state law or comprehend it even after it is supplied to him and explained to him.

    Is this COP bashing?? No, just the FACTS.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    And he cannot read state law or comprehend it even after it is supplied to him and explained to him.

    Is this COP bashing?? No, just the FACTS.
    Well, we should be getting a new one soon and from what I understand, he'll be a lot better along 2A lines. But, we shall see.
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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    Sheriff Stammen

    On the morning of the open carry picnic September 25th, 2010 an officer ( I donít know who it was) from your department came out to check on what procedures we had in place to handle the issue of not using the restroom while armed. I told him that we had purchased two gun boxes and we plan on taking the firearm out of the holster and secure it in the gun box, where the person would then lock the gun box and take the key with them to the restroom, then after, just reverse the process.

    The sheriff department officer stated he didnít know if that was legal and called his supervisor. The supervisor said it was not acceptable, to take the firearm out of the holster and required us to leave the firearm in the holster and take the entire holster with firearm inside, off and secure it in the gun box.

    Apparently, it was determined by the supervisor on Saturday, September 25th, 2010 that taking the firearm out of the holster and put in a gun box without the holster would be unsafe, and modified our procedures for securing the firearm in the gun box the morning of the picnic.

    I have to ask, is there a difference between, allowing a person to take the firearm out of the holster and storing the firearm in a gun box thatís on a table right in front of you, vs. Pulling the firearm out of our holster, while standing outside next to your vehicle and securing it in a gun case.

    The answer to the question is there is no difference, everyone, before getting in their vehicle, to drive home the day of the picnic, had to take their firearm out of the holster, while standing outside of the vehicle, encase it and secure the firearm in the vehicle.

    Sheriff Stammen, think about the repercussion of your supervisor decision that day meant to those who attended the picnic, whom, most all of them were wisconsincarry.org members and all well versed in the law related to the open carrying of a firearm.

    All of them reasoned, as so did I, and discussed it during the picnic, that if it is considered unsafe to take your firearm out of the holster to secure it in a safe, than it should be also considered unsafe to take your firearm out of the holster, while standing next to your car, to secure the firearm in a gun case.

    If so, than a citizen could reasonably conclude that the supervisorís requirement and reasoning he had for not taking a firearm out of the holster for storage, a local ordinance of West Baraboo.

    Any member attending the picnic that day could have, when they were leaving from the picnic in their vehicle, felt obligated out of a safety concern, to follow the Sauk County supervisor requirement for securing a firearm, and either, stored their firearm in the vehicle with the firearm still in the holster, (because, I doubt the firearm and holster together would fit in the gun case, when originally, only the firearm was in the case when he or she arrived to the picnic) or he or she could have kept the firearm strapped to their side while getting in the vehicle and then drove away without encasing the firearm, again with concern for safety while taking the firearm out of the holster.

    Then, If any attendee to the picnic were to get stopped by Law Enforcement on their way home in Baraboo for any reason, and they were cited for concealed carry, than I would think that they would have a very strong legal argument in defending their concealed carry citation based on the Sauk County Sheriffís Department supervisorís policy for securing a firearm and his or her concern for safety in taking the firearm out of the holster.

    Based on the argument above, we should not have been required to secure both the holster and firearm together in the gun box, which as I discuss above, is contrary to what the current State Law allows us to do when storing the firearm in our vehicle, State Law allows us to take the firearm out of the holster, while standing next to our vehicle and to secure the firearm in a case.

    Additionally, when securing the firearm in the vehicle, there is no State Law restricting the location of the vehicle when we secure our firearm, in otherwords, we could secure our firearm in a crouded Walmart parking lot, so, it isnít a valid argument that we posed a safety concern for any of the people that were using the park, that were not attending the picnic while we were securing the firearm in the gun box..

    Iím sure that whoever attended the picnic secured their firearm in their vehicle in accordance to State Law prior to leaving, just as we followed the Sauk County Sheriffís office requirements during the open carry picnic.

    I do plan on organizing a picnic next year, and I hope that we could open up a dialog withWest Baraboo or you're office to allow us to use the restrooms while armed.



    Don


    Don

    I am retiring from office shortly. You concern has been forwarded to Captain Fults.

    Randy Stammen
    Sauk County Sheriff

  17. #17
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Well I guess he told you !

    Seems to me this is another case of backing someone into a corner with FACTS and now he is trapped in the corner and can not argue his way out.

    Pretty lazy response IMO.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    Don

    I am retiring from office shortly. You concern has been forwarded to Captain Fults.

    Randy Stammen
    Sauk County Sheriff
    Should have just said:

    "Don, go ehf yourself, we will do whatever we want."

    What a joke.

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