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Thread: 90 days CHP - Grand County

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    Thumbs down 90 days CHP - Grand County

    Well, today is the 90'th day since I applied for my CHP in Grand County. I have not gotten the mail yet today but I assume there will be no answer when it comes.

    If I'm not mistaken, aren't they required to issue after the 90 days has expired?

    I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!

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    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    They have to issue or deny within 90 days.

    18-12-206. Sheriff - issuance or denial of permits - report.
    (1) Within ninety days after the date of receipt of the items specified in section 18-12-205, a sheriff shall:
    (a) Approve the permit application and issue the permit; or

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    It's not quite that straightforward. First, the law only requires him to make a decision in 90 days. It implies that they send you a notification at that time, but the mail can be slow.

    Link:

    18-12-206. Sheriff - issuance or denial of permits - report

    I called the POC in my sheriff's office who handles CHPs exactly two weeks prior to the 90 day point, and I "miraculously" received it in the mail three days later.

    Give 'em a call, and be sure to be nice! "Please, thank you, and excuse me ma'am/sir" goes a long way.
    Last edited by since9; 09-28-2010 at 07:00 AM.
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    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    I wasn't saying they have to have the letter in your hand within 90 days. But they do have to issue or deny within 90.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabbitsHole View Post
    Well, today is the 90'th day since I applied for my CHP in Grand County. I have not gotten the mail yet today but I assume there will be no answer when it comes.

    If I'm not mistaken, aren't they required to issue after the 90 days has expired?

    I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!
    Call them and find out where it is. This is Colorado, not Connecthecut.

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    Gave them a call the other day... It turns out that they "decided not to contact me" about a problem with my NRA instructor. They were unable to locate his NRA #. I tracked it down in about an hour and called them back with it. They said once they confirm it, they would issue my permit within a day or two.

    I wonder what they would have done if I didn't call them... Since it was day 90 and they didn't issue an approval or denial.

    Oh yes, and their reason for not contacting me was, "because it's a privilege and not a right". I about lost it at that point but I kept my cool. I suppose if I would have quoted the 90 day CRS documentation, it would have ended up being an instant denial.
    Last edited by TheRabbitsHole; 09-28-2010 at 04:48 PM.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabbitsHole View Post
    Gave them a call the other day... It turns out that they "decided not to contact me" about a problem with my NRA instructor. They were unable to locate his NRA #. I tracked it down in about an hour and called them back with it. They said once they confirm it, they would issue my permit within a day or two.

    I wonder what they would have done if I didn't call them... Since it was day 90 and they didn't issue an approval or denial.

    Oh yes, and their reason for not contacting me was, "because it's a privilege and not a right". I about lost it at that point but I kept my cool. I suppose if I would have quoted the 90 day CRS documentation, it would have ended up being an instant denial.
    Very poor attitude and unprofessional on their part. El Paso County sheriff's CCW people are about as nice and helpful as they can be. And the Sheriff sends you a congratulation letter with your CCW thanking you for taking action to protect your family and property. Colorado is a "shall issue" state. That means it is not a privilege, but a right--failing special circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Colorado is a "shall issue" state. That means it is not a privilege, but a right--failing special circumstances.
    Hear! Hear! That means by "deciding not to contact you", they broke the law.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Colorado is a "shall issue" state. That means it is not a privilege, but a right--failing special circumstances.
    If it were a "RIGHT" then it could not be taxed or stipulations placed on it.

    A "RIGHT" is to be enjoyed by ALL free men without interference.

    Even OC in Colorado is not a "RIGHT" (no OC in Denver and no OC in places local governments choose to ban it.)

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    If it were a "RIGHT" then it could not be taxed or stipulations placed on it.

    A "RIGHT" is to be enjoyed by ALL free men without interference.

    Even OC in Colorado is not a "RIGHT" (no OC in Denver and no OC in places local governments choose to ban it.)
    Only Denver County can ban OC, except at clearly posted government buildings with metal detectors. As noted before, a hung Supreme Court allowed it. New Justices, hopefully, will override it. It is the sole exception to full state preemption. As to placing a "cost" on rights, there are numerous examples of this happening, both at the state and federal levels. A statement which is absolutely true: "The price of freedom is written on the Wall." Everything has a 'cost.'

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Only Denver County can ban OC, except at clearly posted government buildings with metal detectors.
    Metal detectors are not required for OC to be banned outside of Denver. All a local government need do is pass a ban and post signs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    As to placing a "cost" on rights, there are numerous examples of this happening, both at the state and federal levels.
    Because it happens all the time does not make it right.

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    Kingfish, it is my understanding that no county or city, outside of Denver, could pass a ban on open carry because of the preemption laws that are in effect that don't allow jurisdictions to enact laws that exceed those that are in place at the state level. This means that, while yes a ban can be instated on any property, it would require the posting of signs at all the entrances to the property (or I would assume spaced at legal requirements for no trespassing signs for open areas like parks and open space) and blanket bans like those in Denver would never be enforceable. However, signs don't really hold any legal weight in court as you may overlook them. If a property has advanced security screening like metal detectors, then you may not enter the property and could be charged with trespassing if you tried. Also, if you're asked to leave from any establishment that is privately owned you must do so or face trespassing charges, but I'm not sure if the same applies to a government funded entity that uses tax funds as you, a tax payer, would be partially responsible for the building.

    If I'm not making much sense in this go ahead and let me know, it's been a long few days and my brain is running a little scrambled.


    Also, TheRabbitsHole, did you get your CHP yet?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Are you guys saying that if a city passes an ordinance that bans OC in city buildings and posts notice of such ban that one may enter that building with an OCed weapon and no action can be taken against them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Are you guys saying that if a city passes an ordinance that bans OC in city buildings and posts notice of such ban that one may enter that building with an OCed weapon and no action can be taken against them?
    If there's no security screening you can overlook signs if they aren't posted in plain view. Obviously if there's a 12x12 sign at chest level on the door itself then it would be hard to miss and you would probably be charged with trespassing, at the least. However, if a city passes a ban on OC and they don't post signage or try to restrict it in buildings or areas that aren't owned by the city, then there is no way it could stand up in court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    If I'm not making much sense...
    ZackL, you made perfect sense.

    Rabbit, the others are correct. By not contacting you, your county's sheriff broke the law. There is no "may" in the CRS:

    (1) Within ninety days after the date of receipt of the items specified in section 18-12-205, a sheriff shall:

    (a) Approve the permit application and issue the permit; or

    (b) Deny the permit application based solely on the ground that the applicant fails to qualify under the criteria listed in section 18-12-203 (1) or that the applicant would be a danger as described in section 18-12-203 (2). If the sheriff denies the permit application, he or she shall notify the applicant in writing, stating the grounds for denial and informing the applicant of the right to seek a second review of the application by the sheriff, to submit additional information for the record, and to seek judicial review pursuant to section 18-12-207.
    I would recommend that after (that's after, not before) you receive your permit, simply send all correspondance you received from the Sheriff's office, along with a short and sweet cover letter noting their decision not to contact you at all, to the Colorado Attorney General's office. You might simply ask: "Why did the sheriff's office fail to approve or deny within 90 days commensurate with C.R.S. 18-12-206(1)? Furthermore, why are they insisting it's a privilage, when C.R.S. 18-12-201(1)(e) specifically affirms that "...the issuance of a concealed handgun permit is based on a person's constitutional right of self-protection and there is a prevailing state interest in ensuring that no citizen is arbitrarily denied a concealed handgun permit..."?"

    Put simply, your county sheriff's office goofed! They broke the law, and they're apparently unaware of the law regarding concealed handgun permits.

    The AG has the authority and the will to help correct unlawful attitudes, provided you give them the ammo! So, after you get your permit, give the AG's office the ammo so they can do their job helping to enforce the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRabbitsHole View Post
    I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!
    Nothing like having your hand freeze to cold steel, eh? Lol! At least it aids retention... If you still want to OC in the winter, I'd recommend a side holster that sits a little lower, preferrably one with a leg strap. Mine's made of tactical nylon, fits and sits great, and cost all of $15. All my heaviest winter jackets sit just above the gun's butt, so I retain quick access. Only my rain jacket sits lower, which is ok, as it covers the butt and keeps my firearm dry.
    Last edited by since9; 10-08-2010 at 07:06 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Metal detectors are not required for OC to be banned outside of Denver. All a local government need do is pass a ban and post signs.

    Because it happens all the time does not make it right.
    You're incorrect. Local governments cannot ban OC except as I noted. Only Denver County can ban it across the board.

    No one said it "made it right," just that it is reality.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You're incorrect. Local governments cannot ban OC except as I noted. Only Denver County can ban it across the board.

    No one said it "made it right," just that it is reality.

    No metal detector requirement here.

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    No metal detector requirement here.

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
    I misunderstood your post, sorry. I thought you were talking about broad prohibition, not a specific government owned building. They cannot ban CC unless metal detectors at points of entry, but they can at a building ban OC. As there is no legal OC, just not illegal, it falls out of state preemption.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I misunderstood your post, sorry. I thought you were talking about broad prohibition, not a specific government owned building. They cannot ban CC unless metal detectors at points of entry, but they can at a building ban OC. As there is no legal OC, just not illegal, it falls out of state preemption.
    Cool. I was hoping it was a misunderstanding. Glad we got that cleared up.

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    Any Luck Yet?

    Please do keep us appraised, TheRabbitsHole!

    - since9
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Alamosa County: In and out with a card in about 45 minutes. Took that long because the computer was acting up. They only issue one afternoon a week though.

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    Electronic printing in Alamosa?

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