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90 days CHP - Grand County

TheRabbitsHole

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
249
Location
Grand County, Colorado, USA
Well, today is the 90'th day since I applied for my CHP in Grand County. I have not gotten the mail yet today but I assume there will be no answer when it comes.

If I'm not mistaken, aren't they required to issue after the 90 days has expired?

I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!
 

entartet17

Regular Member
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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
206
Location
Aurora, Colorado, USA
They have to issue or deny within 90 days.

18-12-206. Sheriff - issuance or denial of permits - report.
(1) Within ninety days after the date of receipt of the items specified in section 18-12-205, a sheriff shall:
(a) Approve the permit application and issue the permit; or
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
It's not quite that straightforward. First, the law only requires him to make a decision in 90 days. It implies that they send you a notification at that time, but the mail can be slow.

Link:

18-12-206. Sheriff - issuance or denial of permits - report

I called the POC in my sheriff's office who handles CHPs exactly two weeks prior to the 90 day point, and I "miraculously" received it in the mail three days later.

Give 'em a call, and be sure to be nice! "Please, thank you, and excuse me ma'am/sir" goes a long way.
 
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Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
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Free, Colorado, USA
Well, today is the 90'th day since I applied for my CHP in Grand County. I have not gotten the mail yet today but I assume there will be no answer when it comes.

If I'm not mistaken, aren't they required to issue after the 90 days has expired?

I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!

Call them and find out where it is. This is Colorado, not Connecthecut.
 

TheRabbitsHole

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Aug 5, 2009
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249
Location
Grand County, Colorado, USA
Gave them a call the other day... It turns out that they "decided not to contact me" about a problem with my NRA instructor. They were unable to locate his NRA #. I tracked it down in about an hour and called them back with it. They said once they confirm it, they would issue my permit within a day or two.

I wonder what they would have done if I didn't call them... Since it was day 90 and they didn't issue an approval or denial.

Oh yes, and their reason for not contacting me was, "because it's a privilege and not a right". I about lost it at that point but I kept my cool. I suppose if I would have quoted the 90 day CRS documentation, it would have ended up being an instant denial.
 
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Gunslinger

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Gave them a call the other day... It turns out that they "decided not to contact me" about a problem with my NRA instructor. They were unable to locate his NRA #. I tracked it down in about an hour and called them back with it. They said once they confirm it, they would issue my permit within a day or two.

I wonder what they would have done if I didn't call them... Since it was day 90 and they didn't issue an approval or denial.

Oh yes, and their reason for not contacting me was, "because it's a privilege and not a right". I about lost it at that point but I kept my cool. I suppose if I would have quoted the 90 day CRS documentation, it would have ended up being an instant denial.

Very poor attitude and unprofessional on their part. El Paso County sheriff's CCW people are about as nice and helpful as they can be. And the Sheriff sends you a congratulation letter with your CCW thanking you for taking action to protect your family and property. Colorado is a "shall issue" state. That means it is not a privilege, but a right--failing special circumstances.
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Colorado is a "shall issue" state. That means it is not a privilege, but a right--failing special circumstances.
If it were a "RIGHT" then it could not be taxed or stipulations placed on it.

A "RIGHT" is to be enjoyed by ALL free men without interference.

Even OC in Colorado is not a "RIGHT" (no OC in Denver and no OC in places local governments choose to ban it.)
 

Gunslinger

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Free, Colorado, USA
If it were a "RIGHT" then it could not be taxed or stipulations placed on it.

A "RIGHT" is to be enjoyed by ALL free men without interference.

Even OC in Colorado is not a "RIGHT" (no OC in Denver and no OC in places local governments choose to ban it.)

Only Denver County can ban OC, except at clearly posted government buildings with metal detectors. As noted before, a hung Supreme Court allowed it. New Justices, hopefully, will override it. It is the sole exception to full state preemption. As to placing a "cost" on rights, there are numerous examples of this happening, both at the state and federal levels. A statement which is absolutely true: "The price of freedom is written on the Wall." Everything has a 'cost.'
 

Kingfish

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Only Denver County can ban OC, except at clearly posted government buildings with metal detectors.
Metal detectors are not required for OC to be banned outside of Denver. All a local government need do is pass a ban and post signs.

As to placing a "cost" on rights, there are numerous examples of this happening, both at the state and federal levels.
Because it happens all the time does not make it right.
 

ZackL

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Jul 17, 2009
Messages
340
Location
Calhan, Co.
Kingfish, it is my understanding that no county or city, outside of Denver, could pass a ban on open carry because of the preemption laws that are in effect that don't allow jurisdictions to enact laws that exceed those that are in place at the state level. This means that, while yes a ban can be instated on any property, it would require the posting of signs at all the entrances to the property (or I would assume spaced at legal requirements for no trespassing signs for open areas like parks and open space) and blanket bans like those in Denver would never be enforceable. However, signs don't really hold any legal weight in court as you may overlook them. If a property has advanced security screening like metal detectors, then you may not enter the property and could be charged with trespassing if you tried. Also, if you're asked to leave from any establishment that is privately owned you must do so or face trespassing charges, but I'm not sure if the same applies to a government funded entity that uses tax funds as you, a tax payer, would be partially responsible for the building.

If I'm not making much sense in this go ahead and let me know, it's been a long few days and my brain is running a little scrambled.


Also, TheRabbitsHole, did you get your CHP yet?
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Are you guys saying that if a city passes an ordinance that bans OC in city buildings and posts notice of such ban that one may enter that building with an OCed weapon and no action can be taken against them?
 

ZackL

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Jul 17, 2009
Messages
340
Location
Calhan, Co.
Are you guys saying that if a city passes an ordinance that bans OC in city buildings and posts notice of such ban that one may enter that building with an OCed weapon and no action can be taken against them?

If there's no security screening you can overlook signs if they aren't posted in plain view. Obviously if there's a 12x12 sign at chest level on the door itself then it would be hard to miss and you would probably be charged with trespassing, at the least. However, if a city passes a ban on OC and they don't post signage or try to restrict it in buildings or areas that aren't owned by the city, then there is no way it could stand up in court.
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
If I'm not making much sense...

ZackL, you made perfect sense. :)

Rabbit, the others are correct. By not contacting you, your county's sheriff broke the law. There is no "may" in the CRS:

(1) Within ninety days after the date of receipt of the items specified in section 18-12-205, a sheriff shall:

(a) Approve the permit application and issue the permit; or

(b) Deny the permit application based solely on the ground that the applicant fails to qualify under the criteria listed in section 18-12-203 (1) or that the applicant would be a danger as described in section 18-12-203 (2). If the sheriff denies the permit application, he or she shall notify the applicant in writing, stating the grounds for denial and informing the applicant of the right to seek a second review of the application by the sheriff, to submit additional information for the record, and to seek judicial review pursuant to section 18-12-207.

I would recommend that after (that's after, not before) you receive your permit, simply send all correspondance you received from the Sheriff's office, along with a short and sweet cover letter noting their decision not to contact you at all, to the Colorado Attorney General's office. You might simply ask: "Why did the sheriff's office fail to approve or deny within 90 days commensurate with C.R.S. 18-12-206(1)? Furthermore, why are they insisting it's a privilage, when C.R.S. 18-12-201(1)(e) specifically affirms that "...the issuance of a concealed handgun permit is based on a person's constitutional right of self-protection and there is a prevailing state interest in ensuring that no citizen is arbitrarily denied a concealed handgun permit..."?"

Put simply, your county sheriff's office goofed! They broke the law, and they're apparently unaware of the law regarding concealed handgun permits.

The AG has the authority and the will to help correct unlawful attitudes, provided you give them the ammo! So, after you get your permit, give the AG's office the ammo so they can do their job helping to enforce the law.

I've open carried every day since I've been here with only one minor issue, and will continue to do so with or without a CHP but cold weather at 8000ft is coming fast and it would be nice to wear heavier clothing!

Nothing like having your hand freeze to cold steel, eh? Lol! At least it aids retention... If you still want to OC in the winter, I'd recommend a side holster that sits a little lower, preferrably one with a leg strap. Mine's made of tactical nylon, fits and sits great, and cost all of $15. All my heaviest winter jackets sit just above the gun's butt, so I retain quick access. Only my rain jacket sits lower, which is ok, as it covers the butt and keeps my firearm dry. :)
 
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Gunslinger

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Free, Colorado, USA
Metal detectors are not required for OC to be banned outside of Denver. All a local government need do is pass a ban and post signs.

Because it happens all the time does not make it right.

You're incorrect. Local governments cannot ban OC except as I noted. Only Denver County can ban it across the board.

No one said it "made it right," just that it is reality.
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
You're incorrect. Local governments cannot ban OC except as I noted. Only Denver County can ban it across the board.

No one said it "made it right," just that it is reality.


No metal detector requirement here.

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
 

Gunslinger

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Free, Colorado, USA
No metal detector requirement here.

29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.

I misunderstood your post, sorry. I thought you were talking about broad prohibition, not a specific government owned building. They cannot ban CC unless metal detectors at points of entry, but they can at a building ban OC. As there is no legal OC, just not illegal, it falls out of state preemption.
 

Kingfish

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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
I misunderstood your post, sorry. I thought you were talking about broad prohibition, not a specific government owned building. They cannot ban CC unless metal detectors at points of entry, but they can at a building ban OC. As there is no legal OC, just not illegal, it falls out of state preemption.

Cool. I was hoping it was a misunderstanding. Glad we got that cleared up.
 
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