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When is it ok to break contact with police??

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TheJeepster

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So most of us are informed about RAS and Terry stops. We can say the usual "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?"

When are we actually free to go? I have seen several instances online where police will not directly answer the "am I being detained" question and instead hold the person(s) there until their supervisor, who isn't on scene but is on the way, gets there.

Do we have to wait around for a cops supervisor? I would think this amounts to being detained in an involuntary manner. If they can't answer about detainment when immediately asked, then I have to make a reasonable assumption that they have no RAS, and hence I am free to go.

Additionally, most cops like to lecture about personal opinions and what not, especially when they have nothing to cite or arrest you for, and I really could give 2 sh#ts less what any of them "think." Do we have to stand there wasting our time listening to them lecture or can we end that conversation at will?
 
Ajetpilot

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Are you a reasonable person?

I think the point at which a reasonable person would feel he/she is being detained, you are being detained. At that point, it might be wise to say, "I feel I am being detained. I respectfully refuse to answer any further questions; I do not consent to any searches; and I request the presence of an attorney." At this point, the officer knows that without RAS, the stop is violating your rights.
 
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ShooterMcGavin

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I have considered this, but I am not sure if this would be right...
"Officer, if you do not tell me that I am being detained, then I am led to believe that I am not being detained. Good day.". When you turn and walk away, if you hear anything other than "stop", I'd believe you are free to walk away.

It's just another idea. Any thoughts on that approach?
 
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aadvark

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ShooterMcGavin's phrase is most probably best..., given the Question Topic of this Article.
 
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TheJeepster

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When you turn and walk away, if you hear anything other than "stop", I'd believe you are free to walk away.
Click to expand...

As long as I don't have a piece of carving wood on my hand. :)

I really do wonder what walking away would get you?? Likely "contempt of cop".
 
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TheJeepster

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SpyderTattoo said:
This thread is creeping closer and closer to the boarder of "Cop Bashing Land"...
Click to expand...

I disagree. Police I have ran into feel they ALWAYS get to choose when an encounter is concluded. My question pertains to when is it legal (or wise) for you to end the encounter? If the police ALWAYS feel they must and will "control" a situation it could spiral out iof control just for you ascerting your rights.

So it starts with a little chit chat then he/she starts asking questions you either can't or won't answer. 10-1 he/she gets authoritative and tries to control the situation. So what starts as an innocent encounter lends to them digging for anything they can detain you with.

I just want to know what other people have done, or would do, when in that situation. It's not a far stretch to imagine that if you walk away before the cop feels the discussion is over, the cop might take the situation in his/her own hands via taser or other, to "control" the situation. It's not bashing, its reality.
 
gogodawgs

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TheJeepster said:
<snip> So it starts with a little chit chat then he/she starts asking questions you either can't or won't answer. 10-1 he/she gets authoritative and tries to control the situation. So what starts as an innocent encounter lends to them digging for anything they can detain you with.<snip>
Click to expand...

This would generally be considered 'social' or 'consensual' contact. Assuming you are on foot. I recommend that you recognize the different techniques and types of contact that an officer may initiate. If it is some chit chat and you consent to the contact voluntarily then you are under no obligation to continue talking. IMMEDIATELY, recognize when the chit chat turns to questioning and leave.
 
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TheJeepster

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amlevin said:
Are you being detained during a traffic stop?
Click to expand...

Traffic stops are different. Its not a not a breach of your rights to be required to show proof that you are indeed qualified and legal to drive/ride whatever vehicle you are in/on. Driving is not a right but a privledge.
 
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TheJeepster

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gogodawgs said:
This would generally be considered 'social' or 'consensual' contact. Assuming you are on foot. I recommend that you recognize the different techniques and types of contact that an officer may initiate. If it is some chit chat and you consent to the contact voluntarily then you are under no obligation to continue talking. IMMEDIATELY, recognize when the chit chat turns to questioning and leave.
Click to expand...

Good advice as always!
 
joejoejoe

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Ajetpilot said:
I think the point at which a reasonable person would feel he/she is being detained, you are being detained. At that point, it might be wise to say, "I feel I am being detained. I respectfully refuse to answer any further questions; I do not consent to any searches; and I request the presence of an attorney." At this point, the officer knows that without RAS, the stop is violating your rights.
Click to expand...

I think I would answer with this FIRST, before I decided to walk away. I don't want the police officer to say that I "resisted" anything because I walked away on suspicion of a voluntary holding. IF the police officer decides he doesn't want to answer the question directly, then I would walk away and see if he then becomes "direct" in his conversation.

Joe~

edit: this is assuming the first question I asked was "Am I free to go?" and he doesn't respond or he says, "I am waiting for my supervisor."
 
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gsx1138

gsx1138

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I did see a youtube video where an OC'er asked a police officer several times if he was being detained and they refused to answer. He told them that he took their silence as a no and he was going to leave peacefully. He told them to have a good day and walked away.
 
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CaptainAttila

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IANAL, but "Officer, I don't desire a casual contact, and have nothing to say. Have a good day." seems appropriate, then leave. Asking if you're being detained puts them in control. If they do detain you, assert your fifth amendment right to silence until you can speak with your attorney.
 
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