Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59

Thread: Long Beach open carry ARREST

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    9

    Long Beach open carry ARREST

    Wow arrested for no ID under 12031....good luck!





    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    45
    Details?

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231
    Uhm- Ive seen this already. And its from Ryanburbridge, our resident Long Beach OC'r. If you watch the video to the end, you will see that he is released. Yeah- arrested for 12031 for no ID... Sorry, LBPD, that's not a violation of the statute. Thanks for playing.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  4. #4
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912

    Red face

    Can someone cite in 12031 where ID is required??

    I'm not surprised an LA-County city is attempting a catch-and-release program...
    Last edited by demnogis; 09-29-2010 at 10:22 PM.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Escondido CA
    Posts
    248

    Long Beach PD Ha clueless .......

    [QUOTE=JJg22;1365826]Wow arrested for no ID under 12031....good luck!



    Well someone there needs to enlighten the Leo's down there about UOC as its not a crime ...and no you do not need to carry ID as part of the 12031 e check ....hope your apology letter from the Chief of Police is coming fast ...shame you didn't heed the warning about use of a recording device when Open carrying .....spend an evening writing to the chief of police with all details known of times places officers involved ..and one last thing "NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE" that's a given
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yucaipa, Ca
    Posts
    10
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    Last edited by Seth1981; 09-30-2010 at 03:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member JJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East Contra Costa County, California, ,
    Posts
    213

    Oh Boy

    I think this thread just took a detour.....

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Harrah, Oklahoma
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    Suggest you stop and read the constitution especially the 4th ammendment. If you like Nazi Germany then move there. After you read the constitution read up on Thesues. That is what happens when CA LEO get ahold of your identity.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ht=School+Zone
    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html
    Last edited by chewy352; 09-30-2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: To include links

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    Seth, can I call you Seth? Seth. Listen. You read the Bill of Rights much? What does the fourth amendment say Seth? Lemme just quote it from memory here for you Seth and you can help me understand it a little bit better for me.

    The right of the people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person and things to be seized.

    Now I may have missed a word or two, but that's the gist of it. Now who do these rights apply to Seth? Well, you may think that carrying a firearm disqualifies you from being protected under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, but you'd be wrong. The fourth amendment always applies. Ever read Florida v. J.L.? Ever read U.S. v. Ubiles? Go read the rulings on those two cases quickly and come back. I'll even provide links to make your life easier.

    Back? Now what happened in those cases? In both cases a man with a gun had his weapon seized by the police. See, the police thought those men were criminals, so they grabbed their guns away before they had thought through the situation. In Ubiles the court dismissed the evidence against Ubiles because the police officers violated his rights when they obtained the firearm.

    So lets suppose your hypothetical is true and that the guy openly carrying a firearm for all to see is a felon. Let's just suppose that for a second even though that likely has never happened, but let's suppose it because you brought it up. So Mr. Felon is walking down the street with a firearm visible for all to see. A cop rolls up and starts questioning him. Mr. Felon just stands there quiet as a mouse. The cop gets all frustrated and demands ID. Mr. Felon stands there silently. So what does the cop do? He throws handcuffs on the guy, grabs his ID, and calls it in. The dispatch says that the guy is a felon. "Ah ha!" the police officer exclaims. You're a felon with a firearm, you're breaking the law. So he hauls Mr. Felon in.

    Some time goes by and Mr. Felon is now standing before the judge. His public defender demands that the charges be dropped because the officer illegally searched and seized his client without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. The judge dismisses the case because the prosecutor has no evidence. Now what? Answer me that Seth. What now? Did the police officer successfully accomplish his goal? No. And you know what, now Mr. Felon is suing the police officer in civil court for violating his rights. He'll likely win too.

    I highly advise you to re-read and thoroughly understand your inalienable rights. They aren't something to take lightly. They are incredibly important and they apply to us all. Kowtowing to police officers who are knowingly violating their sworn oath to uphold the Constitution is not something you will see me doing in this lifetime. Hopefully you won't either.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , California, USA
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.

    Anyone else smell a troll?

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
    Anyone else smell a troll?
    The stench pervades my senses...

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691
    I am not a doctor, but I think someone is suffering from an anxiety disorder. Please contact your local shrink and get some congnitive exposure therapy.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Angry Seth, why don't you take a look at the OCDO homepage...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". ....With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    Seth, The OCDO homepage says a right unexercized is a right lost. This is about rights. Be less concerned about the LEO that urinates on our constitution/ your god given rights and be more concerned about the gutless attitude you have displayed. If you allow yourself to be run over by the man, then may the chains of tyranny rest lightly upon your soul.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Susanville, California, USA
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by Josey Wales View Post
    Anyone else smell a troll?
    I think I caught the scent of a troll ! Robin47

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yucaipa, Ca
    Posts
    10
    hahahahaha you people are psycho. You really think its going to get as bad as you say? You need serious help. Nazi Germany?? hahahaha really, homebody's a drama queen. I'm not gutless. I just realize that if a cop doesn't know the law, I will be more then happy to explain it to him/her as im there violating my rights. Everybody quotes the law and whats right and wrong. Your right but then again how often is the law broken? Yes you guys/girls are right I shouldn't have to give up my id. I have fought to defend the freedom and rights of myself as well as everybody in the U.S. I can guarantee you im not gutless.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    California Penal Code 12031

    (a)
    -----(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

    -----(2) Carrying a loaded firearm in violation of this section is punishable, as follows:
    (A) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
    (B) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
    (C) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11 (commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
    (D) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm, as defined in this section, or is within a class of persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
    (E) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
    (F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.
    (G) In all cases other than those specified in subparagraphs (A) to (F), inclusive, as a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

    ..... (3) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the firearm either lawfully acquired and lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the lawful owner or person who otherwise has apparent authority to possess or have custody of the firearm. A
    person who takes a firearm without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have lawful possession of the firearm.

    ..... (4) Nothing in this section shall preclude prosecution under Sections 12021 and 12021.1 of this code, Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, or any other law with a greater penalty than this section.

    ..... (5)
    (A) Notwithstanding paragraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 836, a peace officer may make an arrest without a warrant:
    (i) When the person arrested has violated this section, although not in the officer's presence.
    (ii) Whenever the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested has violated this section, whether or not this section has, in fact, been violated.
    (B) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of subparagraph (F) of paragraph (2), if the peace officer has probable cause to believe that the person is carrying a loaded handgun in violation of this section and that person is not listed with the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of
    Section 11106 as the registered owner of that handgun.

    ..... (6)
    (A) Every person convicted under this section who has previously been convicted of an offense enumerated in Section 12001.6, or of any crime made punishable under this chapter, shall serve a term of at least three months in a county jail, or, if granted probation or if the execution or imposition of sentence is
    suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned for a period of at least three months.
    (B) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence except in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the minimum imprisonment required in this subdivision or by granting probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with conditions other than those set forth in this subdivision, in which case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice would best be served by that disposition.

    ..... (7) A violation of this section which is punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year shall not constitute a conviction of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year for the purposes of determining federal firearms eligibility under Section 922(g)(1) of Title 18 of the United States
    Code.


    (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following: ////////// Removed unless someone insists on being pedantic //////////




    DANG THAT'S A LONG ONE.


    Now... just where in California Penal Code 12031 is a requirement to produce government issued identification in the circumstance at hand? ......hmmmm?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 09-30-2010 at 06:05 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    hahahahaha you people are psycho. You really think its going to get as bad as you say? You need serious help. Nazi Germany?? hahahaha really, homebody's a drama queen. I'm not gutless. I just realize that if a cop doesn't know the law, I will be more then happy to explain it to him/her as im there violating my rights. Everybody quotes the law and whats right and wrong. Your right but then again how often is the law broken? Yes you guys/girls are right I shouldn't have to give up my id. I have fought to defend the freedom and rights of myself as well as everybody in the U.S. I can guarantee you im not gutless.
    Troll? perhaps.
    Unable to express himself? Without question.

    I would remind the gentleman that the very purpose of the Fourth Amendment is to expressly prohibit the conduct of the officers in question. That some officers look on the Fourth Amendment as an impediment to them keeping the citizenry in line tells me only two things.
    1) The Fourth Amendment was written with those sorts of officers in mind, and
    2) That those sorts of officers are the bad guys.

  18. #18
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Seth, The OCDO homepage says a right unexercized is a right lost. This is about rights. Be less concerned about the LEO that urinates on our constitution/ your god given rights and be more concerned about the gutless attitude you have displayed. If you allow yourself to be run over by the man, then may the chains of tyranny rest lightly upon your soul.

    ...and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Finished it for ya.

  19. #19
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll?

    What difference does that make? In your world how much time must pass between someone learning about the legality of something and then actually participating in legal activities? What a dumb question.

    How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon?


    That's an easy one...THEY DON'T! Imagine that...a world where the government doesn't know everything about everyone all of the time! A little known concept regarded to as FREEDOM. Next time I see you driving around town, I'll be sure to have the cops stop you because we just don't know if that vehicle isn't stolen. You could be a felon. You could have just stolen that vehicle. And we have to know, don't we.

    Here's the full quote...I pretty sure it applies to you.

    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    -Samuel Adams

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yucaipa, Ca
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    What difference does that make? In your world how much time must pass between someone learning about the legality of something and then actually participating in legal activities? What a dumb question.



    That's an easy one...THEY DON'T! Imagine that...a world where the government doesn't know everything about everyone all of the time! A little known concept regarded to as FREEDOM. Next time I see you driving around town, I'll be sure to have the cops stop you because we just don't know if that vehicle isn't stolen. You could be a felon. You could have just stolen that vehicle. And we have to know, don't we.

    Here's the full quote...I pretty sure it applies to you.

    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    -Samuel Adams
    lol thats fine by me. They can stop me if they feel the need. Then after they get the info they need to realize im not a felon ill be on my way. I havnt been here long but I am already at the point that I dont think half of you need to be OC'ing anyway. Infact I dont think you need to own guns weather its your right or not. You would rather have a felon carry a gun without worry because he shouldnt be checked and rationalize it with "well its the law" then realize the fact that a convict is carrying a weapon where you and your family reside. Ill be sure to help in any way to get OC banned so people need to be certified and I can feel safe knowing that it isnt somebody that is gonna cry because there rights were violated. Have you seen the news? Have you noticed the kind of people in this world today? Somebody will walk up and shoot somebody in the face for no reason im sure there is a few loons out there with a pistol on there hip.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691
    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    -Samuel Adams
    Hey, thats a good signature.

    Now, back to watching the lightening and thunder storm. (My cats hate thunder)
    Last edited by Gundude; 09-30-2010 at 08:22 PM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Harrah, Oklahoma
    Posts
    769
    Ok I think its time to stop feeding the Brady troll

  23. #23
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1981 View Post
    WOW!! Thanks to guys like this OC will soon be banned in Ca. Thank you for that little strike. He is taking it from the right to bear arms to a stand against the "man". With all the laws that go with OC how do they know he didn't just hear about it a week ago and decide to throw his pistol on his side and go for a stroll? How do they know he isn't a felon, or that he didn't steal the weapon? Granted he didnt have to but If he would have surrendered his id he would have been out of there with out any fuss. They are cops they will do stuff like that. He might have taught the cops something they didn't know, helping out next time they come across another citizen while OC they would know whats going on. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I hope everybody has plenty of training with weapons in stressful or any situation but as we see here they don't. With the officer that walked up I highly doubt he said "got him again" and they did send somebody to the fight at the car show. People pay attn and don't fight it. If I get stopped I will give the officer any info he wants and I wont be combative. They don't need that crap.
    Seth1981 you are 100% able to give up any claim to any/all rights that you have guaranteed to you by the Constitutions of the United States and the State of California. Also, in my viewing of the video (all 3 parts) no where in any way was the arrestee disrespectful or combative.

    Standing up for one's rights is not combative or disrespectful. The officers may be frustrated by this but in no way is availing oneself of ones rights a criminal act.

    As for the training question---- I would recommend training and practice BUT No where in the US 2nd Amendment of the Constitution does it REQUIRE ANY TRAINING. To suggest that one have training before they are to be allowed to carry ANY weapon turns a RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE which would be an INFRINGEMENT upon the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS!

    AND HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT YOU HAVE THE POWER TO GIVE UP THE RIGHTS OF ANY OTHER PERSON?

  24. #24
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    306
    .
    A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

    The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. ~John Stuart Mill
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 09-30-2010 at 10:26 PM.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    9
    Wow side track.

    Gents, you all impress me greatly with your knowledge and fruitful quotes. But, Seth is obviously a gentleman that has no good intent on these forums and rather spend his time arguing. Let us not waste any more time proving to him things we know are right and that we will not let others push us around and tell us what rights we have. Sometimes we get a worm in the apple.

    Since I am new, I have been watching a lot of videos of OCers and news footage to see what to expect and so forth. When I saw this I couldn't believe my ears..."you are under arrest for 12031 - for not willing to show ID" WOW, and 2 other cops just watched and a few more showed up to check it out. Sad sad day...I would have been talking to the Chief pretty darn quickly....

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •