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Long Beach open carry ARREST

Seth1981

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
What do you think the terrorists want for America? They don't want to come here and peacefully assimilate into our society. They want every American gone off the face off the earth and with that our rights and freedom. Granted politicians have there own agenda for America and I pray that it has a better outcome then what we all see on the horizon.
 

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
It i$ really $ad that LEO feel they mu$t continue to make enemie$ of law abiding citizen$. $o $orry to $ee $uch blatant violation$ of con$tituitional right$. Really make$ you $ee how far the police $tate ha$ come! :mad:
 

chewy352

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Harrah, Oklahoma
O rly? Who exactly did you fight to advance or maintain our rights?

... I'll be waiting for an answer that does not include Iraq or Afghanistan.

So people who fight in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't fighting to maintain our right and our sovereignty? The Muslims want the whole world to bow down before sharia law. They want to rule the entire world so yes the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq do maintain our rights.

BTW where does your profile say your from . . . oh ya UTAH so why don't you keep your Vet. bashing in your own forum we have enough issues to deal with in CA.
 

chewy352

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Harrah, Oklahoma
So people who fight in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't fighting to maintain our right and our sovereignty? The Muslims want the whole world to bow down before sharia law. They want to rule the entire world so yes the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq do maintain our rights.

BTW where does your profile say your from . . . oh ya UTAH so why don't you keep your Vet. bashing in your own forum we have enough issues to deal with in CA.

Here are some articles to support my statement as promised:
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/25/sharia-islamic-law-not-ok-in-oklahoma/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,422661,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157831,00.html
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
So far off topic, but this thread hasn't been an exemplary thread of productivity, so it should be fine to discuss this Islam topic further.

You stated that Muslims wanted the world to bow down before Sharia Law. I interpreted that to mean that all Muslims want the world to comply with Sharia Law, and I attempted to correct your post by altering your quote to indicate that a small percentage of Muslims actually want that. I stand by this point.

If one examines any big enough group, one will find branches that differ in thought from the main group. Looking at practitioners of the Christian religion one can point to Southern Baptists, the Amish, Mormons, and Christian Scientists. All these groups have spawned from Christian backgrounds, and while today they aren't considered mainstream, they are a great example of how groups branch off of larger groups and go in various directions.

If you go into even smaller subsets of the above groups, you can get even more extreme with fundamentalist evangelical Southern Baptists who only have sex for purposes of procreation, Mormons who think that they should have multiple wives, and Christian Scientists who refuse to treat their dying children with any modern medicine. There will always be more and more extreme versions of an idea if enough people are involved. What do people think of when Mormons are mentioned? Polygamy frequently comes to mind. But polygamy is banned by Mormons! Similarly many people think that all Christian Scientists refuse to take modern medicine, but for the vast majority of them, this is simply not true.

Going even further into the minority groups of Christianity we can arrive at a variety of Christian organizations that have been associated with the word I hate to use, "terrorism." The KKK is a wonderful example of this, but there are numerous others.

That was just a brief analysis of Christians. An analysis of any group will show similar breakdowns in extremist viewpoints. Some gun rights people like Seth above think that people should show ID to police who are just trying to do their job. Some of us think that there should be no test or training required to carry a loaded firearm, but some think there should be. Some of us think non-violent felons should be able to be armed, and I imagine some of us even feel that violent felons should be able to be armed as well. You can look at a centrally held idea like a bell curve. On one extreme end are people who think guns should all be registered, gun owners should be licensed, ammo should be tracked, etc. On the other extreme there are people who think any weapon (be it a revolver or a tank) should be able to be sold by anybody to anybody without any paperwork and anybody should be able to keep and carry/drive that weapon however they want.

Getting back to your point though, you claimed that all Muslims want the world to bow down before sharia law. The first article has a quote that says, "Currently Muslims make up less than two percent of the population. 'And among those, most don’t even know what Sharia is,' said one political observer." So most don't know what Sharia even is. Following this bell curve logic, we can assume that of those that know what Sharia is, a smaller subset believes in Sharia law, a small subset of that subset believes that the world should follow it, and a small subset of that final subset is actually trying to get the world to follow it. That sounds like a small percentage of Muslims.

The third article begins with, "The debate over Sharia law surfaced in Canada two years ago when a Muslim group in Ontario proposed the arbitration of family disputes according to Islamic law." Another way to write that would be "a Muslim group suggested that maybe Sharia law could be used by a person who is helping two groups in conflict to resolve a family dispute." To me, that doesn't translate into all Muslims demanding that the world bow down to Sharia law. It sounds like a group suggested that it could be used by arbitrators who were helping arbitrate a dispute among family members. I'd be willing to bet that this group was suggesting it specifically for Muslims as well.

The second article is the cleverest of the three, but it basically is saying that if people want to enter into an agreement where their family or financial dispute is heard by an arbitrator who happens to follow Sharia law, that they can do that. Again, this doesn't come across as meaning that all Muslims want the entire world to bow before Sharia law.

I'm not saying that there aren't Muslims out there who do want the world to bow down before Sharia law. I'm sure some would. But considering that Islam is the second largest religion in the world and over 1.5 billion people practice it, I find it impossible to accept that 1.5 billion people can agree on something, I find it impossible to believe that the majority of those 1.5 billion people want to impose their beliefs on the rest of the world, and I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anything but a small percentage of Muslims are actively trying to impose Sharia law on the world. If you disagree, go down to your nearest Islamic temple and conduct a survey and see what people think.
 

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
So far off topic, .

and Christian Scientists who refuse to treat their dying children with any modern medicine. QUOTE]

I was raised a Christian Scientist so I feel its important to bring some truth to this statement.

Like gun owners, Christian Scientists have been the victims of mainstream mischaracterizations about their beliefs.

Never, ever, have Christian Scientist churches taught that a parent should deny modern medical treatment to a dying child. In fact, the churches specifically encourage and endorse it.

Christian Scientists believe that a person should first turn to God for healing but if you dont feel it worked you are free to seek modern, mainstream medical treatment.

In the case of children, Christian Science specifically teaches members NOT to impose beliefs on others so children are always told that doctors can be an appropriate and moral form of treatment.

Statistically Christian Scientists receive modern medical care at rates similiar or higher than the general public.
 

Seth1981

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
Your correct that not all Muslims want the world to bow to Sharia law, but the fact still remains that it doesn't matter how many feel this way its that how many act on it. The Muslim extremists see this as a far bigger problem then we might think. It took only 19 to put 9-11-01 in the history books. Islam literally means "submission to God. They strive to live by the five pillars of Islam but a blatant example of the upcoming sixth pillar (Jihad) can be seen in the news and in every ied, vbied and suicide bomber over seas and here in America. Its not that there is a small amount that want but the extremes that the ones who do will go to achieve it.
 

chewy352

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Harrah, Oklahoma
You make very valid point’s bigtoe but if it is only a few as you believe then why are the masses not condemning the acts of the few? That is what speaks volumes to me is that even mainstream American Muslims are not outright condemning the acts of the extremists.

In all fairness this thread fell off topic because of Kevin Jensens comment, "O rly? Who exactly did you fight to advance or maintain our rights? I'll be waiting for an answer that does not include Iraq or Afghanistan." Whether we are fighting the few or the many we are fighting to maintain our freedoms and to defend our country. Therefore, the Iraq and Afghanistan vets did fight to advance or maintain our rights. If you or the mods would like we can continue this conversation in private but I made my point and you made yours and I'm sure we can agree to disagree and carry on.
 

Seth1981

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
10
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
see chewy and bigtoe your the reason I love the us. You can argue about something and be humane about it. I admit I was the one who took this post offline, not you but if you go somewhere and continue this please let me know because I would like to follow it
 

RockerFor2A

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
145
Location
Lemon Grove, CA
...one can point to Southern Baptists, the Amish, Mormons, and Christian Scientists. All these groups have spawned from Christian backgrounds, and while today they aren't considered mainstream, they are a great example of how groups branch off of larger groups and go in various directions.

If you go into even smaller subsets of the above groups, you can get even more extreme with fundamentalist evangelical Southern Baptists who only have sex for purposes of procreation...

I grew up attending a Southern Baptist church in Hawaii (not in the "Bible Belt") and attended a private school that included "Baptist" in its name. Your ignorance of the Baptist denomination is stunning. And how are Baptists not mainstream? Lumping them in with Mormons and Christian Scientists, etc, displays a lack of knowledge of the theological differences between these groups. And as far as your assertion about sex and Southern Baptists, I suppose if you look hard enough and turn over enough rocks you'll find some people who identify themselves as Baptists and hold those views you describe... but you'd have to look hard.
 
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bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
I grew up attending a Southern Baptist church in Hawaii (not in the "Bible Belt") and attended a private school that included "Baptist" in its name. Your ignorance of the Baptist denomination is stunning. And how are Baptists not mainstream? Lumping them in with Mormons and Christian Scientists, etc, displays a lack of knowledge of the theological differences between these groups. And as far as your assertion about sex and Southern Baptists, I suppose if you look hard enough and turn over enough rocks you'll find some people who identify themselves as Baptists and hold those views you describe... but you'd have to look hard.

I never claimed to know anything about Southern Baptists. What I claimed was that it wasn't mainstream, which was probably a poor choice of words, but it is a branch off of the mainstream religion of Christianity.

The point about there being some super small subset of Southern Baptists who don't have sex for purposes other than procreation aligns with what you said. You'd have to look hard to find such people, but I'm sure some exist.

For the record, I'm an atheist and I lump all religions into the same boat. Why I am the only one standing up to defend one religion over another is beyond me. I absolutely support everybody's right to practice whatever religion they choose. I find it painful when a particular religion is attacked as being one way or another, so I apologize if I came off as associating Southern Baptists as being extreme. I intentionally listed off what I thought were stereotypical associations with a few religions. I specifically dispelled such stereotypes for Mormons and Christian Scientists, but I failed to do so for Southern Baptists. This is probably because I have no idea what a stereotype of a Southern Baptist would be, but I imagine there are some minute proportion of the faith that are more extreme than the vast majority. That is all I intended to point out, and I could have done that with any religion in existence, from Judaism to Jainism to whatever.
 
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