230therapy
Regular Member
Carried over from Open carry thread in NOVA.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?38118-Open-Carry-in-NoVA
This is the SUMMARY POST.
Started here:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?38118-Open-Carry-in-NoVA
This is the SUMMARY POST.
Started here:
Why are you folks disregarding the legal right of a property owner to determine that they do not want firearms on their property? Or claiming that in spite of having been told by someone whose word you apparently trust (at least regarding other matters), you declare that you refuse to look and verify the existence of the "no firearms" posting they have told you about?
Do you think you somehow are earning bonus points of some sort by violating the property owner's posted rule?
Do you think that by sneaking in with your firearm concealed you are advancing the cause for open carry?
I am well aware of the extremely limited number of movie theaters that are not posted against the carry of firearms, and that the situation limits your and my entertainment possibilities. I am also aware of the fact that many movie theaters are located in places where bad things have already happened to other people.
I am in no way suggesting that you do not have a right to protect yourself. I am in no way suggesting that you should not be upset that a private property owner is so short-sighted that they will restrict your right to self-protection because of irrational and unfounded fears and biases.
I am telling you flat out that boasting of your sneaking around and violating the rights of private propery owners to control their property is not doing any good for the acceptance of open carry.
We have, through grace and good fortune, not had to fight the government for recognition of the right to open carry to the extent that those in other states are continuing to need to do. Nor, to a great extent, is the battle with the public at large. We do not have the panicked MWAG calls that are reported in other states. Our battle is down to the few shopkeepers and restaurants (locally owned or national chains) who still are unwilling to open their eyes and see that law-abiding citizens legally carrying firearms openly are not a threat to their person, property or to their bottom line.
But boasting of sneaking around violating their policies is not going to make them suddenly decide that open carriers ought to be welcomed onto their property. If anything, it seems to me that such behavior only strengthens their resolve to prohibit us from entering their propertry.
If you honestly cannot wait until it comes out on DVD/Blue Ray to see the movie but, for whatever reason, refuse to go to the movie theater unarmed, then you have a problem. That, by itself, does not bother me. But if your problem causes behavior that makes the private property owner less likely to change their mind about the issue, then your problem has created a problem for me.
Please stop creating and perpetuating that problem.
Thank you for reading my rant. You are now welcome to go on being dishonest and decietful if you so choose.
stay safe.
--skidmark
Your 1A rights do not go out when you walk onto property that accepts public traffic (such as a store or restaurant, NOT a home or similar). The owner cannot say "You can come in here, but leave your kippah in the car." If the owner tells someone that, they get sued in civil court. I have been told the courts have ruled on this, but I have no citations at this time (research project!).
Same goes for your gun rights. Open carry is a legal activity that is an expression of the right to keep and bear arms under Section 13 of the constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Even under McDonald v Chicago, they said OC is acceptable.
The problem is one of attitude. People have been raised to believe guns are a problem and that there is only the privilege subject to government approval.
We really should be suing these people every time they ask us to leave for peaceably engaging in our right to bear arms.
--230therapy
Au contraire!
A private property owner or manager may most assuredly "discriminate" except for violation of one of the protected classes without fear of prosecution.
Your 1st and 2nd Amendment rights are left at the door and subject to his control or your arrest for violation of the appropriate ordinance.
Refuse to leave when carrying in on any private property in Va. and you shall at the least be subject to trespass charges.
First Amendment rights in Lowes, Wal-Mart or Food Lion? Get up on your soap box and start giving a speech or carry a political sign/banner around the store, refuse to stop and let me know how that works out for you.
A store may ban red shirts if they so desire. McDonald v Chicago says nothing to change private property owner's rights. Even the Va. Constitution does not compel me as a business owner to allow you to do most things against my wishes on my property.
You indicated that you wanted to research the material, so I will await the cites that show I am wrong.........I am very patient, take your time.
In fact I recommend that you start a new thread for this project as this one needs to be returned to the regular OP programing.
--grapeshot