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WCI Chairman Nik Clark and Madison Police Chief Noble Wray on Wisconsin Eye

rotty

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
217
Location
Minneapolis Minnesota
This is my personal opinion

I am watching the video now and hearing this "Chief" and I use that term LOOSELY obviously does not believe his own BS.

Nice job Nik, I can only IMAGINE how hard it was to bite your tongue during this "Chiefs" comments.


Amazing that he thinks the citations issued are justified.

Where is the audio from the second call ? I have heard nothing of this until watching the video.
 
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Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
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America
after seeing that it seems like everything after the obstruction charges were filed has been to avoid a civil suit or at least avoid loosing a civil suit. That is alot of harassment for cover yer ass action.
 

Stretch

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
489
Location
Pasco, WA, ,
So according to Chief "Not so" Noble Wray, eating at Culver's could be considered disorderly conduct if ANYONE were to call and question a person's actions? Wow.

911, what is your emergency?
Um yes, there is a small child screaming loudly because they're 2 years old.
Sir, that isn't an emergency....
But, I'm at Culver's and trying to eat peacefully, isn't that disorderly behavior?
Yes sir, it is. We're sending SWAT now....
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
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, ,
They seem to be the same video, so don't worry about opening all three in different tabs.

I'll be watching it in half an hour.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
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May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I am watching the video now and hearing this "Chief" and I use that term LOOSELY obviously does not believe his own BS.

Nice job Nik, I can only IMAGINE how hard it was to bite your tongue during this "Chiefs" comments.


Amazing that he thinks the citations issued are justified.

Where is the audio from the second call ? I have heard nothing of this until watching the video.

Vicki McKenna mentioned something rather interesting at Culvers last Saturday night. She said that some of the inside chatter is that the Chief and Mayor do not see eye to eye and that the Chief is actually a good guy and wants the city to lose so that he doesn't have to go against the Mayor, who has the power to fire him.

You would have to ask her for more details.
 

Max

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
335
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Great job Nik.....but,

I wish you would have said, "Chief, are you suggesting that rights, lawfully exercised, becomes disorderly conduct if the exercise of the right "disturbs" someone else. If not, why not?" " What other rights do you apply the same policy to?"

Here is a quick story to show how solid the legal ground we stand on is in my humble opinion. In the 1970s, the Nazi party wanted to march in Skokie IL., a suburb of Chicago. Skokie denied the Nazis a permit to march because Skokie has a very large Jewish population and many residents at the time were either Holocaust survivors or relatives of survivors and victims of the Holocaust. The Skokie officials feared the horror that would be imposed on many of its residents should they allow the march and also feared violence. The Jewish Defense League offered rewards for anyone that would injure or kill a Nazi. So Skokie denied them a permit to march.

The case went all the way to the SCOTUS and they ruled Skokie must allow the march, freedom of speech and all that. The exercise of the right took precedence over the fear of offending or scaring people. In the end, the Nazis wisely chose not to March in Skokie. How is our situation any different from a legal perspective?

If I am all wet on this let me know.
 
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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Wray keeps repeated "totality of circumstances." It's a nice phrase he probably learned back in police academy. But what ARE the circumstances in this case? 5 guys sitting around minding their own business for two hours while enjoying burgers and shakes. How much lower could the standard be?
 
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bhancock

Guest
Wray keeps repeated "totality of circumstances." It's a nice phrase he probably learned back in police academy. But what ARE the circumstances in this case? 5 guys sitting around minding their own business for two hours while enjoying burgers and shakes. How much lower could the standard be?

Exactly, unless in after thought he is counting in all the anxiety of the customers caused by the police response. I also noticed he had to 'wake' up ever time the moderator called on him, and almost every time he was back to the 'totality' of circumstances crutch.
 
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bhancock

Guest
When the moderator noticed Nik's sidearm, I was waiting for the chief's tactical response, frisk, seperation, and investigation into whether or not he was legally carrying and if the moderator or professor 'felt' threatened or uneasy.
 

Flipper

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,140
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Vicki McKenna mentioned something rather interesting at Culvers last Saturday night. She said that some of the inside chatter is that the Chief and Mayor do not see eye to eye and that the Chief is actually a good guy and wants the city to lose so that he doesn't have to go against the Mayor, who has the power to fire him.

You would have to ask her for more details.

The Madison "I am a hunter" mayor is a member of Mayors Against Guns. So it is quite possible that pressure was put on the chief to adopt Barrett's and Herr Flynn's tactics.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
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1,197
Location
, ,
I wish you would have said,

Truly in retrospect, the most difficult part about doing these things (interviews/debate/panel discussion) is that you listen back and there are so many things you would like to say having the time to review and dwell on it.

First before you get the chance to rebut a comment by the chief, the moderators asks another question, so you want to answer the question asked, then go back and rebut a previous comment. Its nearly impossible to say all you could say and want to say.

The real question I would like to ask the chief. Is that he admits that open-carry is legal and its not "automatic" disorderly conduct.

He suggested off camera that their officers saw our members carrying down state street last Saturday and there was NO contact.

SO that begs the question of the chief "please explain what our members did AND what other members can "not" do to avoid getting charged with DC."

Its NOT right to make this big ambiguous "case by case" claim and "totality of the circumstance" comments and not explain precisely what our members did.

With respect to the law abiding people of Wisconsin who have a constitutional right to carry a sidearm, the Chief has an OBLIGATION to follow the law and let people know what to expect.

He can't leave it "case by case" he can't say "take your chances guys, we might arrest you we might not" Thats a mockery of constitutional rights.

The people of Madison deserve better.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
He suggested off camera that their officers saw our members carrying down state street last Saturday and there was NO contact.

SO that begs the question of the chief "please explain what our members did AND what other members can "not" do to avoid getting charged with DC."

So.... exactly what did we do wrong other than challenge the authority of the police?
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Vicki McKenna mentioned something rather interesting at Culvers last Saturday night. She said that some of the inside chatter is that the Chief and Mayor do not see eye to eye and that the Chief is actually a good guy and wants the city to lose so that he doesn't have to go against the Mayor, who has the power to fire him.

You would have to ask her for more details.

Interesting theory, but not true. The mayor has neither the power to hire nor to fire the police chief, who works at the pleasure of the Police and Fire Commission.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
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So.... exactly what did we do wrong other than challenge the authority of the police?


Exactly. If "something" you guys did was wrong, doesn't the chief owe it to the rest of the open-carriers in Madison (and you guys who will continue to exercise your right) the courtesy of a specific explanation of the conduct that led to DC charges INSTEAD of these vague "well you have to look at the totality of the circumstances" and "case by case" basis.

To be honest, I think he's intentionally creating ambiguity to FURTHER create fear. If he explained what HIS department considers legal OC'ing, then people could OC without fear.

I have a feeling what HIS department considers illegal doesn't hold water compared to state law.

I mean what "totality" If walking down state street is legal OC'ing but going into Culvers is not??? Hogwash. State law specifically forbids carry in certain places (gov. buildings, school zones, bars without permission) IF the legislature intended to prohibit carry in fast-food restaurants they could have made it a law.

They chose not to. Chief Wray can't make it his own law that carry in Culvers is part of the "totality".

He's not telling what you guys did wrong because he can't. You guys didn't do anything wrong. He knows it. I know it. He's hiding behind ambiguous statements to muddy the water because he knows there IS not logical explanation to your being cited. No logical explanation other than that the PD is trying to cover up their error by upping the ante issuing new charges.
 

TyGuy

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Is the 2nd 911 call available yet? Did I miss it being posted?
 
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