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Thread: No carry at Equestrian Games?

  1. #1
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    No carry at Equestrian Games?

    I plan on attending the 2010 equestrian games at the horse park this weekend. I figured they would have made a rule against firearms and sure enough, I was right.

    http://www.alltechfeigames.com/conte...7b_8_16_3038_6

    Restricted Items
    A few lines down it says "Firearms and all other weapons (ex: Knives, Pepper Spray, Handcuffs, Multi-tools, etc.)"
    A few more lines down "Any item considered dangerous, unsafe or unnecessary by security or law enforcement personnel"

    Ok thats dumb. Basically if I'm a cop there and I don't like the shirt you're wearing, you have to leave, because I consider it unnecessary.

    So whats up with that? I cannot find anything on the Horse Park website, and as far as I know its privately owned... so basically if I disobey this rule am I breaking no laws, but will be trespassing if asked to leave and I don't comply? FWIW I plan on carrying concealed, so I highly doubt anyone would ever know I've got anything. However I certainly don't want to be in violation of any state or federal law.

  2. #2
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Exclamation Up In Arms..... With My Keyboard! *S*

    As I read through the items they listed as forbidden I had to laugh. Multi-tools, pepper spray, knives, I have to wonder just how they'd know if you were or weren't carrying these things, they'd be in your pockets! *LOL* Are they going to frisk people? *LOL*

    It looks to me like the event promoter's or someone over the promotional write-up for this event went overboard in their write-up for this web page for this event. The way this sounds is that you can ONLY wear your clothes and wallet to pay us for coming!

    Personally, I'll boycott this! Additionallly, we as gun owners and CCDW licensed carriers should write many letteres to the editor of the local papers and state our distaste and distain with this action against us, especially those of us that are CCDW licensed.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    I would like to distinguish that this is not a rule of the Horse Park's---It's Alltech's rule. I see where they're coming from with heads of state being there and all. Personally, I don't have a problem with this, but I'm sure a large majority of you all would disagree. If you're CCing, I doubt anyone would know, really. Considering that, I suppose anyone with ill-intent could simply CC, paying no attention to their silly rule.

    I think were I disagree with some on this board is that I think when private entities rent or lease certain facilities, they may impose their own rules. I guess where it gets gray here is that this is a quasi-private event.

    By the way, the media is reporting that they are all sold out of general admission tickets and that entrance will cost $45.

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    Does the Venue qualify as Private Property, or is it governed as Public Property in accordance with KRS 65.870?

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    KRS 65.870 is irrelevant. The event is on public property (on the state level).

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    I guess what the debate boils down to is, can a private party exclude anyone from a private event that happens on public property? If I'm paying for a park shelter for a family reunion and some guy comes by and is a ******* can I have him removed from my gathering? I would think yes.

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    My main concern is legality. If it is legal then I will decide if I want to break the rules of the establishment I have chosen to patronize, or follow them. If it violates state or federal law I certainly don't want to do that. If they find out that I am violating their rules, then I have no problem leaving... but I doubt that will happen. I guarantee you I will be breaking one of their rules in some form or fashion... there are just so many of them. I'll probably wear a western hat, or a magazine to read through the boring parts, which a LEO might feel is unnecessary, and then I am breaking rules.

    I would just not go, but tickets are purchased and my entire family is going and looking forward to it. Funny thing, I'm the one who is the most into horses and I have the least desire to see some people in tight pants ride around in circles.

    Thanks for your input lanzaiguy... I'm not sure I agree with you on everything but you make good, well thought out points.

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    @TWeatherford Thanks!

    @Gutshot:

    The preemption clause deals only with cities and counties prohibiting weapons--neither is the case with the Horse Park. I know that the state can only regulate conceal carry and only in public buildings--this is also not the case in this situation. What we have her is a quasi-private agency banning weapons from public property. This brings us back to the original question: can a private party exclude anyone from a private event that happens on public property?

    I remember visiting this same question with the Lion's Club fair. This was a privately run fair on publicly owned property. Are they able to ban weapons?

    My personal opinion, I think if a private organization is paying $$ to the state to lease a certain building/property, they can regulate their own rules temporarily. After all, at both the WEG and the Lion's Club and many other county fairs charge admission. Should you have to pay to be on what normally would be free, public property? In these cases you have to.

    Now I admit that I am on shaky ground and in unfamiliar territory so I readily admit I may be wrong on this.

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    1)Isn't KRS 65.870 considered the preemption statute? Gutshot, you did bring that statute up.

    2)Let me clarify, I realize Alltech isn't a quasi-government agency. I meant to say that this is a quasi-government scenario: a private company leasing public property.

    3)I realize that the government can and does charge money for various activities as you mentioned. I'm talking this kind of scenario: There's a public park in town with free admittance. I want to put on a festival so I pay the city a fee to close it off and use it for my festival. I charge an admittance fee to people and turn a profit. Can't I make up my own rules for said event?

    4)I wasn't implying that I would remove a *******, but that the police remove him. I wasn't implying that he should be arrested as you said, jackassness isn't a crime. I meant to suggest that a person be removed as someone might be removed from private property at the request of the property owner.

    5)Please understand that I'm simply trying to make sense of this situation the best I can, however pathetic it may be. I suppose you could say I'm arguing this point of view simply to figure out what the truth really is, not that I believe my opinions to be gospel.

    6)I'm with Gutshot--I'd really be interested to look into this "lease" situation, and no one carrying to WEG should be arrested for anything as no law would be broken.

  10. #10
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    How did this ever end up?
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  11. #11
    Regular Member Smith & Wesson's Avatar
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    This is pretty much the same as if I were to rent a property from someone, as long as my rent is paid I have the right to allow or refuse any one person or any one type of weapon. This is only common sense. It might be public property, but if leased by the city to a privet person, that person HAS the right to refuse someone or something from entering its establishment.

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    I don't agree with a private individual's right to deny me of my right to carry. I have no problem if a movie theatre or the equestrian games denies my right to bring in food and beverages, since they need to make money selling it to me. Their rules, I will abide by them. Same goes if they don't want me to have a whistle in a sporting event, it could mess up the players and referees at a football game or the horses going over jumps. But any time someone starts infringing on my ability to protect my life, that is going too far. I hate breaking rules, but I also love my life. So the easiest thing to do is just avoid places that deny my right to carry, just like I wouldn't spend much time somewhere where they would kick me out for saying something against the president, for example. My freedom is important to me.

    I went to the games. There were several signs at the checkpoint where they looked in bags, and scanned tickets, that said NO WEAPONS. I was wearing jeans, a button down collared shirt, and a vest. No one asked to me to take my vest off or show what was in my pockets. So if anyone wanted to have a gun there, it would have been really, really easy to do so. I thought it was really dumb to have the NO WEAPONS sign, since all it did was decrease the likelihood that the good guys had guns there.

    If I did have a firearm there, and someone started shooting, unless it was directed at me, I would never even dream of touching my own firearm. Plenty of places to run and hide, and plenty of police officers around. If the guy was just shooting up the crowd, I would take my chances given the fact that he has thousands of targets all around me, and I can run and zigzag with the best of them, as can the rest of my family. There are far too many people around that I could injure, plus the great likelihood of getting shot by police officers who thought I am the bad guy in that sort of situation. Still, a constitutional right is a constitutional right, regardless of the likelihood of wanting or needing to use it.
    Last edited by TWeatherford; 10-10-2010 at 12:46 PM.

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