Legal to shoot a Dog in Michigan?

Does the Michigan Self Defense law cover me if I shoot an attacking animal? How about if the municipality has a no discharge law? Do I have to wait for the animal to bite me?

I think, I would let the animal bite me. Here's my reasons:

• It stands up as a pretty good defense if the animal owner tries to sue me.
• It stands up as a pretty good defense if I am criminally charged.
• I enables me to sue the animal owner. I'm willing to go in for a few stitches if I can net a few G's (after expenses) for "pain and suffering".

Don't know about Mi but here in Texas, the law says you're justified to use deadly force if you are in reasonable fear of death or grave bodily arm. It DOES NOT say the source of that threat has to be human! I once came within about 2 ounces of trigger pull of shooting a neighbor's dog that charged out in to the street as I was walking by. The ONLY thing that saved that dog was the owner witnessed the charge and called him off. He was very apologetic and agreed that if our roles were reversed he would have fired.

Mcl 287.279

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

lapeer20m said:

Mcl 287.279
Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

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So I have to stop and check to make sure it has a tag and the tag is current before I shoot it?

Can I just rip the tag off after I shoot it

MCL 780.972 requires the target to be an "individual". The law doesn't go further to specify what an "individual" is. Therefore we have to go to Webster. Webster says an "individual" is a person.

My safety vs vicious dog's life...dog loses every time, sorry Fang!

If you fear for your safety or that of family, pets, livestock, etc... you are within your rights to use lethal force. No city is going to waste time on trying to prosecute you for shooting an attacking dog. Even if they did, no jury would convict you for defending yourself or others.

Glock9mmOldStyle said:

If you fear for your safety or that of family, pets, livestock, etc... you are within your rights to use lethal force. No city is going to waste time on trying to prosecute you for shooting an attacking dog. Even if they did, no jury would convict you for defending yourself or others.

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and remember, glock is NOT a lawyer, and while he has a good point, he may not be correct when it comes to your potential trial.

I personally don't waste too much time thinking about what I can and can not do to defend myself.

my basic mentality for self defense, "how do you know when you'll need to use lethal force?" in a situation where you need to use lethal force, I can promise you,
you will know. anything less than that, IMO is criminal, and you should be held accountable. a charging dog, IMO does not constitute lethal force, even if you are at risk of being mauled. IN MY PERSONAL opinion.

I've thought about situations I may or may not draw in, and I tell you, there are not many.

i wouldn't wait for the dog to bite me, if you do you might not be able to defend yourself as well as you could have. also i wouldn't shoot the taco bell dog either,,,,,,,,

if the dog is a medium to large size animal, you feel that your in enough danger to justify the shooting then i say it up to you at that point.

some other things i would take into account. could you have jumped a fence and called 911 if you thought you had time that would be the better option.

remember only in the gravest extreme, if its cugo or a hell hound shoot!

if its a toy poodle and you shoot it you might not get charged, but be prepared to take crap for it for the rest of your life:monkey
situation that happened to me not to long ago!

i was walking to that famous kroger i have mentioned before and while on my way at night i heard a dog growl, not a little growl but a mean nasty your dinner growl.

i turned and i saw what i firmly believe was a coyote a big one maybe 35 40 meters away. so i slowly started backing away and used my cell to call 911, after being transferred to macomb county sheriffs office i said " i am being harrassed by a coyote, she said "are you being attacked" i said no not yet but it looks hungry" she said she had a car enroute to my location" then i told her what my location was......at this time the coyote started walking my way so i threw a big rock at it. the coyote watched it roll by and gave me a look like "you really just threw that at me?" and started my way again at this point i unholstered and said to the 911 lady "i am armed and have my weapon in hand the animal is continuing to advance. and she said "put the gun away, the officer is almost there." :banghead:

i said that's fine i'll keep it out at this point it turned and ran away, 3 or 4 minutes later a sheriff got to my location. there was a brief conversatation about me haveing a gun out and if i had a cpl or not then we walked over to where i had first seen the animal, there were big dog prints in the mud and a clear trail to where i had said the dog had taken a few steps toward me.
he said i should have shot it. i asked if it was legal. he said it was for him, but was "pretty" sure i could have "gotten away" with it.
this all happened before i was an oc advocate so i didn't know about FOIA, or i would have done that and posted it on here.

so yea, only in the gravest extreme...being eaten by a coyote, or a poodle would be the gravest extreme.

:banghead: don't shoot the poodle!:shocker:

anyway yea...........i do get off topic sometimes,,,,,

Mcl 287.279

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

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Read the bold parts again.

Bronson

NHCGRPR45 said:

:banghead: don't shoot the poodle!:shocker:

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A standard poodle can get up to about 70 lbs.

Bronson

What if the poodle scares the cat so bad that it looks like NG45s cat? can I defend the cat?

stainless1911 said:

What if the poodle scares the cat so bad that it looks like NG45s cat? can I defend the cat?

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No. Domestic pets are not considered livestock.

Bronson

poor kitty:uhoh:

don't worry my kitty goes out with sniper cover at all times!

The applicable law falls under felony animal cruelty. One of the several exceptions include the verbage "without just cause". In my opinion, acting in self defense or protection of others is "acting with just cause".
Here is the law:

750.50b Animal defined; prohibited acts; violation; penalty; exceptions.
Sec. 50b.

(1) As used in this section, "animal" means any vertebrate other than a human being.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not do any of the following without just cause:

(a) Knowingly kill, torture, mutilate, maim, or disfigure an animal.

(b) Commit a reckless act knowing or having reason to know that the act will cause an animal to be killed, tortured, mutilated, maimed, or disfigured.

(c) Knowingly administer poison to an animal, or knowingly expose an animal to any poisonous substance, with the intent that the substance be taken or swallowed by the animal.

(3) A person who violates subsection (2) is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(a) Imprisonment for not more than 4 years.

(b) A fine of not more than $5,000.00 for a single animal and $2,500.00 for each additional animal involved in the violation, but not to exceed a total of $20,000.00.

(c) Community service for not more than 500 hours.

(4) As a part of the sentence for a violation of subsection (2), the court may order the defendant to pay the costs of the prosecution and the costs of the care, housing, and veterinary medical care for the impacted animal victim, as applicable. If the court does not order a defendant to pay all of the applicable costs listed in this subsection, or orders only partial payment of these costs, the court shall state on the record the reasons for that action.

(5) If a term of probation is ordered for a violation of subsection (2), the court may include as a condition of that probation that the defendant be evaluated to determine the need for psychiatric or psychological counseling and, if determined appropriate by the court, to receive psychiatric or psychological counseling at his or her own expense.

(6) As a part of the sentence for a violation of subsection (2), the court may order the defendant not to own or possess an animal for any period of time determined by the court, which may include permanent relinquishment.

(7) A person who owns or possesses an animal in violation of an order issued under subsection (6) is subject to revocation of probation if the order is issued as a condition of probation. A person who owns or possesses an animal in violation of an order issued under subsection (6) is also subject to the civil and criminal contempt power of the court and, if found guilty of criminal contempt, may be punished by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.

(8) This section does not prohibit the lawful killing of livestock or a customary animal husbandry or farming practice involving livestock. As used in this subsection, "livestock" means that term as defined in section 5 of the animal industry act, 1988 PA 466, MCL 287.705.

(9) This section does not prohibit the lawful killing of an animal pursuant to any of the following:

(a) Fishing.

(b) Hunting, trapping, or wildlife control regulated under the natural resources and environmental protection act, 1994 PA 451, MCL 324.101 to 324.90106, and orders issued under that act.

(c) Pest or rodent control regulated under part 83 of the natural resources and environmental protection act, 1994 PA 451, MCL 324.8301 to 324.8336.

(d) Activities authorized under rules promulgated under section 9 of the executive organization act of 1965, 1965 PA 380, MCL 16.109.

(e) Section 19 of the dog law of 1919, 1919 PA 339, MCL 287.279.

(10) This section does not prohibit the lawful killing or use of an animal for scientific research under any of the following or a rule promulgated under any of the following:

(a) 1969 PA 224, MCL 287.381 to 287.395.

(b) Sections 2226, 2671, 2676, 7109, and 7333 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.2226, 333.2671, 333.2676, 333.7109, and 333.7333.

(11) This section does not apply to a veterinarian or a veterinary technician lawfully engaging in the practice of veterinary medicine under part 188 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.18801 to 333.18838.

TheQ said:

Does the Michigan Self Defense law cover me if I shoot an attacking animal? How about if the municipality has a no discharge law? Do I have to wait for the animal to bite me?

I think, I would let the animal bite me. Here's my reasons:

• It stands up as a pretty good defense if the animal owner tries to sue me.
• It stands up as a pretty good defense if I am criminally charged.
• I enables me to sue the animal owner. I'm willing to go in for a few stitches if I can net a few G's (after expenses) for "pain and suffering".

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Yes,you can shoot a dog if you feel that it is going to attack you. It does not have to actually bite you first. This happened to our family Dog in 2007.

I was mauled three times in my life 1. Labrador retriever when I was 5 and almost died from blood loss. 2. by a German Shepard, he went to doggy hell (Colt Trooper) and I suffered broken fingers and a wrist and many scars. 3 it was two German Shepards who suddenly broke into a fight with each other and I was between them, I didn't fair so well I was standing on ice and went down hard and in the couple of minutes before they realized they were also biting me I sustained massive injuries to both arms, hands and it took months to heal and still today 30 years later the scars remain and so does the physical pain as a reminder.

If any beast comes at me with that kind of attitude it also will be in doggy hell. Until you have been mauled that bad you have no idea how slow and painful the healing process is. Trust this, you never want to go through it. Deep puncture wounds from canines get infected easy and heal way too slow. Hesitation is not an option.

lapeer20m said:

Mcl 287.279

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

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We have way too many Coyote here and we have those NON-existent Gray wolves (DNR claims) that many have seen and photographed. I don't worry as much about the Wolves unless I see them packed up, but the Coyote around here are all too often running in packs not unlike the Wild Boars we now have. Michigan needs to put the bounty back on the Coyote before some child gets killed. There are areas up here where Coyote in large packs is becoming a problem.

NHCGRPR45 said:

i wouldn't wait for the dog to bite me, if you do you might not be able to defend yourself as well as you could have. also i wouldn't shoot the taco bell dog either,,,,,,,,

if the dog is a medium to large size animal, you feel that your in enough danger to justify the shooting then i say it up to you at that point.

some other things i would take into account. could you have jumped a fence and called 911 if you thought you had time that would be the better option.

remember only in the gravest extreme, if its cugo or a hell hound shoot!

if its a toy poodle and you shoot it you might not get charged, but be prepared to take crap for it for the rest of your life:monkey
situation that happened to me not to long ago!

i was walking to that famous kroger i have mentioned before and while on my way at night i heard a dog growl, not a little growl but a mean nasty your dinner growl.

i turned and i saw what i firmly believe was a coyote a big one maybe 35 40 meters away. so i slowly started backing away and used my cell to call 911, after being transferred to macomb county sheriffs office i said " i am being harrassed by a coyote, she said "are you being attacked" i said no not yet but it looks hungry" she said she had a car enroute to my location" then i told her what my location was......at this time the coyote started walking my way so i threw a big rock at it. the coyote watched it roll by and gave me a look like "you really just threw that at me?" and started my way again at this point i unholstered and said to the 911 lady "i am armed and have my weapon in hand the animal is continuing to advance. and she said "put the gun away, the officer is almost there." :banghead:

i said that's fine i'll keep it out at this point it turned and ran away, 3 or 4 minutes later a sheriff got to my location. there was a brief conversatation about me haveing a gun out and if i had a cpl or not then we walked over to where i had first seen the animal, there were big dog prints in the mud and a clear trail to where i had said the dog had taken a few steps toward me.
he said i should have shot it. i asked if it was legal. he said it was for him, but was "pretty" sure i could have "gotten away" with it.
this all happened before i was an oc advocate so i didn't know about FOIA, or i would have done that and posted it on here.

so yea, only in the gravest extreme...being eaten by a coyote, or a poodle would be the gravest extreme.

:banghead: don't shoot the poodle!:shocker:

anyway yea...........i do get off topic sometimes,,,,,

Click to expand...

Bailenforcer said:

We have way too many Coyote here and we have those NON-existent Gray wolves (DNR claims) that many have seen and photographed. I don't worry as much about the Wolves unless I see them packed up, but the Coyote around here are all too often running in packs not unlike the Wild Boars we now have. Michigan needs to put the bounty back on the Coyote before some child gets killed. There are areas up here where Coyote in large packs is becoming a problem.

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Yes! Yes! Think of the children!

For those who want to make inane comments here is a little on Coyote attacks on "children" and many of these attacks are not reported by wildlife officials in fear we might start killing Coyotes.

Not to mention domestic animals like pets who are frequently attacked by Coyotes now.
The natural fear of Coyotes to humans is gone for the most part, and in States like California Coyotes and even Mountain lions prey on children, and adults.

http://varmintal.com/attac.htm

Note the disease below is from a child attacked.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NEW+COYOTE+DANGER;+ANIMAL+DISEASE+COULD+BE+THREAT+TO+HUMANS-a083622843

Even Liberal Chicago is worried about a Coyote problem.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/02/coyote-danger-focus-of-wheaton-meeting.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/30/coyote-attacks-3-year-old_n_630451.html

So yes I am thinking about the children for legitimate reasons, not some liberal stupidity. Unlike you city folk up here where I live we don't run to the local unit of Government and cry about things, we just deal with them and hunters are reporting a sharp increase in Coyote challenging hunters, and it often turns out bad for the coyote. Fact is many hunters who live up here has a long standing distrust of government and do not and will not report any self defense shootings of prey animals like a Coyote. Not to mention out of season subsistence hunting where these attacks take place. Now adding in that the type of hunters we have up here that literally live off the food/game they take, do know the difference between wild/feral dogs and a coyote pack.

One must remember that Coyotes are scavengers and pack hunters which make them uniquely dangerous. They will raid your suburban trash can for a meal in a heartbeat, or grab you beloved fluffy. With the out of control growing numbers in every State other than Hawaii, we are seeing them everywhere in major cities and even down town Washington DC, new York and other heavily urbanized areas.

So much for the inane think about the children silliness.

Oh and contrary to the DNR Wolves have crossed the Mackinac straits and are now breeding in the Northern Lower Peninsula. The idiotic comments by the DNR wildlife biologists/liberal animal activists that Wolves can not cross the straits is met with howls of laughter by those who have during hard winters actually crossed ion snowmobiles, during bar runs. Granted this is not a typical winter but we have had many times a hard freeze over of the straits which brought ice breakers in to reopen them. Of course this is the same DNR who for decades claimed Wolverines were extinct in Michigan till it was proven that some still thrive in the Thumb area.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4374309/

Oh and we still have Mountain lions in Michigan. The DNR has denied this for decades.
Most are in the Northwest lower Peninsula of Michigan so far that have been seen. And no contrary to the DNR claims they were pets dumped, there's a long unbroken history of sightings by hunters in the Boyne Valley between Vanderbilt and Boyne City in the swamps.

So this about the children is a reality and children have been attacked by Coyotes, but CNN won't report these attacks.