• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Still confused about OC in cars...

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I think its time we get the clarification for the few doubters that think firearms have to be out of reach.

The only way to even begin to get "clarification" is for someone to be charged with concealed carry because an encased firearm was within reach and not otherwise hidden. Anything else is simply an opinion. The odds of the AG publishing another memo are likely next to zero.
We know that it is unlikely a DNR Warden would cite for concealed carry in such a scenerio as they are primarily concerned about it being legally encased. A concealed weapon citation would likely occur in a larger city and not a small town or village, etc.. It may be a long time before such a citation goes to court and the person is willing to fight it as they were not otherwise violating WI Statutes. We know of several occasions within the past year where board members were not cited for CCW when pulled over by police or just talking to police and their firearm was within reach on the front or rear seat.

More than one of the cases people like to refer to as "proof" that it must be out of reach involved drug possession, etc... in addition to Concealed Carry.
 
Last edited:

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
As I posted, the area concerning knives and other dangerous weapons is "muddy". Factors taken into consideration is the design and intended use of the weapon and the manner in which it is used if used to commit a crime. The peaceful transport of a set of kitchen knives from the local Wal-Mart would likely be considered harmless by the courts. The transport of knives designed for tactical use i. e. a Hori-Hori, Samurai sword, possibly a hunting knife, tactical knives etc. may be viewed otherwise by the courts. In other words it depends. (my opinion).

939.22(10)
(10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm; any ligature or other instrumentality used on the throat, neck, nose, or mouth of another person to impede, partially or completely, breathing or circulation of blood; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

The definition of " dangerous weapon" appears to require two conditions. First: It must be designed as a weapon. Second: It must be capable of producing death or great bodily harm.

A point concerning "out of reach" of certain "dangerous weapons":

The concealed carry prohibition statute 941.23 reads:

941.23 Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state-certified commission warden.

In State v Walls the WSC ruled that a handgun sitting on the passenger seat of an automobile was out of ordinary view from outside the vehicle and therefore was concealed. A firearm is but one kind of "dangerous weapon". It would seem to imply that "concealment" would apply to any qualified "dangerous weapon" sitting on the passenger seat of a vehicle.

Caveat: The statutes I reference above are state statutes. Milwaukee county ordinance 63.015 catergorizes any knife with a blade longer than 3 inches as a dangerous weapon. Also bear in mind that the preemption statute 66.0409 does not apply to dangerous weapons other than firearms.

My opinions.
 
Last edited:
M

McX

Guest
now i am completely confused;unloaded, encased, riding on front seat next to me is concealed?
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
I_K is correct. The out of reach question can only be answered by the courts in a published opinion. Anything else is simply personal opinion. Only the courts can rule that if a firearm, bow or crossbow is properly unloaded and encased statute 167.31 trumps the conditions that describe concealement of a dangerous weapon.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
MY son had a good question today. Not that I want to do this but could I not have a firearm in my hand outside the window of the car as long as the firearm isn't 'in or on' the car?
 

ayce2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
89
Location
Greater Fox cities area
Brain Dead

With al this back and forth I'm sitting thinking..What is the definition of "encased"? Is there a concise answer? If I leave my office (private property) unholster,unload and place my 45 in my brief case is it encased? It is completely enclosed, but not in a special "gun" case. Gee this gets frustrating.
 

Vandil

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Sun Prairie
With al this back and forth I'm sitting thinking..What is the definition of "encased"? Is there a concise answer? If I leave my office (private property) unholster,unload and place my 45 in my brief case is it encased? It is completely enclosed, but not in a special "gun" case. Gee this gets frustrating.

You could put it in a sock and have it considered encased if the DNR wardens I've talked to are to be believed.
 

CKM

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Messages
25
Location
Hustisford, WI
I've always kept a folding knife with a blade longer than 3 inches in the glove compartment of all my vehicles. Perhaps I ought to rethink doing that and stick to blades that are 3" long or less.

I used to live in Milwaukee, and I always wondered if I could be arrested for carrying a butter knife. It's not designed as a weapon, but it is a "knife" with a blade longer than 3 inches.

A good friend of mine was accosted late at night at a gas station in Washington County. Three guys asked for money and tried to get into his truck. One guy took a swing at my friend, who pulled out a loaded 9mm Beretta from under his seat and told them to take off or things could go badly. The miscreants fled. When the police arrived, they did not say a word about the pistol. I was shocked that my friend did not get arrested.
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
775
Location
, ,
With al this back and forth I'm sitting thinking..What is the definition of "encased"? Is there a concise answer? If I leave my office (private property) unholster,unload and place my 45 in my brief case is it encased? It is completely enclosed, but not in a special "gun" case. Gee this gets frustrating.

Welcome to Illinois. We still are trying to figure that one out.
 

Shell

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
31
Location
Wisconsin, ,
A good friend of mine was accosted late at night at a gas station in Washington County. Three guys asked for money and tried to get into his truck. One guy took a swing at my friend, who pulled out a loaded 9mm Beretta from under his seat and told them to take off or things could go badly. The miscreants fled. When the police arrived, they did not say a word about the pistol. I was shocked that my friend did not get arrested.

^ see that's what I'm talking about. Is "carrying concealed" in your car one of those things that you'd only get in trouble for if you were doing something illegal in the first place? If you saved your ass while the police were enroute, are they really going to complain and throw you in jail?
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
The judicial system enjoys 'discretion' that you do not. All, from the cop to the prosecutor to the judge, may choose to pursue an issue, to prosecute it in the general sense of the word, or not - at their discretion.

§ 941.23 does not make an exception for personal carry or vehicle carry, there are three elements of the crime of carrying a concealed weapon; a dangerous weapon is within reach, the actor is aware of its presence, and the weapon is hidden.

Some ANAL quibble about case law, precedence and persuasiveness - that's lawyer talk for lawyers. We are not lawyers and are not qualified to prate so. We advocate to abide the law as law abiding citizens. Some quibble the meanings of words, does hidden = concealed, is hidden identical with concealed, what if it's inadvertant yadda yadda yadda - that is arrantly errant.
 

WisconsinPI

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Green Bay
Holstered carrying in car armed security

I wrote the state about private security in a patrol car (armed) and getting in the car with gun in holster to patrol, they told me it's a no go, I'm confused because I thought the exceptions were you can conceal (oc'ing in car is concealed) in your own house and on your property and also with consent of your employer at place of business. So it's my understanding that if i were on my employers private property i could conceal (getting into patrol car) but they say it's not permitted. hmmmmm

so then what about armored car drivers that carry in holster while driving on PUBLIC streets?

Anyone with the correct answer? please feel free to pm me as well as i may forget to check this post again and would really like to know the law
 
Last edited:
Top