Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49

Thread: Tazewell Board of Supervisors considers allowing firearms in parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Tazewell Board of Supervisors considers allowing firearms in parks

    http://bdtonline.com/local/x23106618...earms-in-parks

    "The county Board of Supervisors have set a public hearing for Tuesday at 7:50 p.m. on a proposed ordinance that would allow citizens with a concealed weapons permit to carry a firearm in county parks and recreation areas. The board’s agenda includes a possible adoption of the ordinance following the public hearing."

    Am I missing something? What is special about these parks that they can:
    1. Prevent Firearms from being carried
    2. Only allow people with concealed weapons permit (I need to get me one of those, all I have is this Concealed Handgun Permit).

    Anyone have any additional information on this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Funny! Someone is in for a rather rude awakening.

    No commenting on the article that I could find... I dropped a note to the reporter. Maybe he will update the article with a few "facts"...

    TFred

  3. #3
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Exclamation

    Violation of statutory law.

    The "Board of Supervisors" needs to be made aware that their ordinance is unnecessary because their signs are illegal and unenforceable.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Oh, and yes, I didn't answer your question, as wylde says, there is nothing "special"... the current ordinance is illegal, and exposes the county to reimbursement of litigation costs, should someone decide to sue them for correction.

    I'm confident that this next meeting will have a slightly altered agenda, to remove the ordinance completely, with no substitute.

    See code:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915

    TFred

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by possumboy View Post
    http://bdtonline.com/local/x23106618...earms-in-parks

    "The county Board of Supervisors have set a public hearing for Tuesday at 7:50 p.m. on a proposed ordinance that would allow citizens with a concealed weapons permit to carry a firearm in county parks and recreation areas. The board’s agenda includes a possible adoption of the ordinance following the public hearing."

    Am I missing something? What is special about these parks that they can:
    1. Prevent Firearms from being carried
    2. Only allow people with concealed weapons permit (I need to get me one of those, all I have is this Concealed Handgun Permit).

    Anyone have any additional information on this?
    If no one else jumps on this, I will after I get back from hunting next week.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Possumboy give a friendly call to the Tazewell County Attorney and let him know that any ordinance passed or already existing on the books that attempts to regulate handgun carry is void per Virginia Legislative Code Section 15.2-915. Hopefully the attorney will be cordial and take the instruction in a thankful manner and advise the county of any potential existing errors.

    Some of us in Campbell County (near Lynchburg) just recently ran into a situation where Campbell County park signage indicated a blanket restriction on carrying weapons in the parks. When Jero1987 (also a local) found the sign and posted about it here, I found the county attorney info, contacted him and within a day of contacting his office he called me back agreeing that the county was in error and he stated that the county had begun to remove and replace the signs to meet the law. From all I have seen the signs have been removed and I don't yet know if new ones are in place.

    If you know of existing county ordinances that attempt to ignore 15.2-915 then you could also contact the local Commonwealth Attorney's office as his / her office is responsible for the enforcement of state law in the local area.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    The Tazewell County Code of Ordinances Section that is in violation is Section 14-32(1):

    "It is hereby declared to be unlawful for any person to do any of the acts set forth in this section within the limits of the facilities and lands located within any public park or parkway or lands used by the county for related purposes within the limits of the county:
    (1) To carry or discharge any firearms, firecrackers, rockets, torpedoes or fireworks of any kind without written consent of the administrator, with the exception of duly authorized law enforcement officials on official duty."

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Talking

    I sent an email to the Editor and Newsroom at the BDT. Hopefully they will review their "reporting" and inform the Board that they may have overstepped their bounds.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    *This may be old: Tazewell County Attorney: Eric Young ( eyoung@tazewellcounty.org )
    Phone: 276-988-1202

    Tazewell County Administrators: http://www.tazewellcounty.org/Coadm.html

    James H. Spencer III

    jspencer@tazewellcounty.org

    108 E. Main St
    Tazewell, VA 24651
    Voice: 276-988-1202
    Fax: 276-988-4246

    Commonwealth Attorney

    Dennis H. Lee

    tazzatt01@adelphia.net

    PO Box 946
    Tazewell , VA 24651
    Voice: 276-988-1240
    Fax: 276-988-5165

    Duties of Office: The commonwealth's attorney is primarily responsible for matters involving enforcement of the criminal law within the county. The commonwealth's attorney salary is paid by the county and reimbursed by the state.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Just remember folks... they've been informed, this isn't a poll or a vote. More noise will not make them your friends.

    We've yet to see (as far as I can recall) a location that openly defies the preemption code, especially since it's been given teeth.

    IMHO, there is no need for anyone to further contact these folks about this, unless any further developments would warrant.

    TFred

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just remember folks... they've been informed, this isn't a poll or a vote. More noise will not make them your friends.

    We've yet to see (as far as I can recall) a location that openly defies the preemption code, especially since it's been given teeth.

    IMHO, there is no need for anyone to further contact these folks about this, unless any further developments would warrant.

    TFred

    +2

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Who has contacted them? All I see here is information on who to contact, and wylde having contacted the editor. I don't see anything that indicated that anyone who is in the county government has been contacted.

    Do you guys have info from possumboy stating that he's made the connection?
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 10:16 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burke/Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just remember folks... they've been informed, this isn't a poll or a vote. More noise will not make them your friends.

    We've yet to see (as far as I can recall) a location that openly defies the preemption code, especially since it's been given teeth.

    IMHO, there is no need for anyone to further contact these folks about this, unless any further developments would warrant.

    TFred
    We don't need them to be our friends in this case; we need them to quickly come into compliance with the law. Contact from mulitple people, and follow up contact by those individuals, will help to ensure that the proper action is taken in a timely fashion.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    First, yes we do want them to be our friends.

    These are not anti-gun people, these are public servants trying to do their job as best they can. This is an issue of education, not persuasion, and certainly not of threatening consequences. Save the mass-response for when it will help, don't use it when it could hurt. Contact from multiple people, who know that they have already been contacted and are working the issue, will just pi** them off, and make them think we are jerks.

    Now I am very confused. Possumboy is the OP and he asked questions. Then later, jmelvin posted a statement saying that possumboy had contacted their attorney, but then later yet, asked who has contacted them? This doesn't make any sense, can we get come clarification?

    ETA: Ok, I see where I read wrong... jmelvin was suggesting that possumboy should give a call to the attorney... not that he had already done it. That would be a good suggestion... and still far better than flooding the phones with multiple reports.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 10-01-2010 at 12:17 PM.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    First, yes we do want them to be our friends.

    These are not anti-gun people, these are public servants trying to do their job as best they can. This is an issue of education, not persuasion, and certainly not of threatening consequences. Save the mass-response for when it will help, don't use it when it could hurt. Contact from multiple people, who know that they have already been contacted and are working the issue, will just pi** them off, and make them think we are jerks.

    Now I am very confused. Possumboy is the OP and he asked questions. Then later, jmelvin posted a statement saying that possumboy had contacted their attorney, but then later yet, asked who has contacted them? This doesn't make any sense, can we get come clarification?

    TFred
    Tazwell is a very rural area. Like most rural places in Va, almost everyone has a gun and carries it. In many cases it is a long gun and they don't carry it in public places as a rule.

    The local governments have Ordinances that go back to the 1800's when it was considered rude to carry or shoot guns in town or public areas.

    Many just don't know about preemption.

    Multiple calls from outsiders is looked on as meddling and I can understand it.

    One or two calls or emails to the County Attorney should take care of it without raising too many hackless.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-01-2010 at 12:22 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,896
    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..............

    I love the smell of gun activism in the morning. You guys appear to be doing a bang-up job here, keep it up. I'm sure once the town lawyer sees the appropriate code they (the council) will be writing up completely different language for thier new law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by nakedshoplifter View Post
    I'm sure once the town lawyer sees the appropriate code they (the council) will be writing up completely different language for their new law.
    Or determining that no law is necessary since no law that could conceive, discuss, submit, vote on or enact regarding lawful carry of firearms would be valid anyway.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  18. #18
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090
    I'm from Russell County, found this because of the mention of the Southwest Virginia Community College reference.

    I spent a lot of time in Tazwell growing up. I live in NOVA now and was just wondering if any of the current "locals" had any ideas on this.

    I can contact them about it, but knowing the area, I think it would be handled better by someone down there politely pointing out preemption. Most down there will do what is best for the community, and opening the county up for a law suit if it is enforced, is not what is best.

    Or, maybe I just have sugar coated memories of the people where I grew up.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Tazwell is a very rural area. Like most rural places in Va, almost everyone has a gun and carries it. In many cases it is a long gun and they don't carry it in public places as a rule.

    The local governments have Ordinances that go back to the 1800's when it was considered rude to carry or shoot guns in town or public areas.

    Many just don't know about preemption.

    Multiple calls from outsiders is looked on as meddling and I can understand it.

    One or two calls or emails to the County Attorney should take care of it without raising too many hackless.

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    I sent an e-mail to the County Administrator this morning and attempted to copy the Commonwealth Attorney, but the e-mail for the CA did not work. Hopefully this will get resolved quickly.

    *I tried calling the phone number for the County Attorney that I listed above, but when the voicemail picked up it was for someone with another name so I didn't leave a message. I have as of yet, been unable to determine who is the County Attorney, but at least the County Administrator has been kindly notified.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 01:24 PM.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    I just got off of the phone with Mr. Seth White, the Tazewell County Board of Supervisor's Northwestern District Supervisor who had some questions for me on how to bring the county into county compliance with the state law. He mentioned that in his view the current county restriction was unconstitutional and his suggestion to allow for at least concealed carry would make the situation at least better than it is. I explained that what the county really needed to do was get rid of the wording banning the carrying of firearms in the code altogether, because the county no longer had the authority to enforce more than state law allowed and further explained that if the county attempted to enforce the county code provisions it would put itself in jeopardy of violating state code and intruding on peoples' civil rights. Mr. White thanked me for my input and shared with me that he wanted to do what was right for the people and further shared that he had been working with the leaders of the local community college to drop their ban on the carrying of handguns for personal protection as well. I then put in a few good words for the VCDL and when he noted that he was unfamiliar with the organization but was an NRA member I further encouraged him to get to know the group as it was very effective getting good firearm laws here in the Commonwealth.

    Mr. White indicated that he would talk further with the County Board and the County Attorney and recommend that the county strike the invalid wording from their codes. All in all I believe Mr. White to be a friend to those of us who understand both the state and federal constitutions and an asset to those who believe in arms for self protection. I look forward to hearing that the Tazewell County Board of Supervisors does the right thing!
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 03:28 PM.

  21. #21
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543

    Excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I just got off of the phone with Mr. Seth White, the Tazewell County Board of Supervisor's Northwestern District Supervisor who had some questions for me on how to bring the county into county compliance with the state law. He mentioned that in his view the current county restriction was unconstitutional and his suggestion to allow for at least concealed carry would make the situation at least better than it is. I explained that what the county really needed to do was get rid of the wording banning the carrying of firearms in the code altogether, because the county no longer had the authority to enforce more than state law allowed and further explained that if the county attempted to enforce the county code provisions it would put itself in jeopardy of violating state code and intruding on peoples' civil rights. Mr. White thanked me for my input and shared with me that he wanted to do what was right for the people and further shared that he had been working with the leaders of the local community college to drop their ban on the carrying of handguns for personal protection as well. I then put in a few good words for the VCDL and when he noted that he was unfamiliar with the organization but was an NRA member I further encouraged him to get to know the group as it was very effective getting good firearm laws here in the Commonwealth.

    Mr. White indicated that he would talk further with the County Board and the County Attorney and recommend that the county strike the invalid wording from their codes. All in all I believe Mr. White to be a friend to those of us who understand both the state and federal constitutions and an asset to those who believe in arms for self protection. I look forward to hearing that the Tazewell County Board of Supervisors does the right thing!
    Well done.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I just got off of the phone with Mr. Seth White, the Tazewell County Board of Supervisor's Northwestern District Supervisor who had some questions for me on how to bring the county into county compliance with the state law. He mentioned that in his view the current county restriction was unconstitutional and his suggestion to allow for at least concealed carry would make the situation at least better than it is. I explained that what the county really needed to do was get rid of the wording banning the carrying of firearms in the code altogether, because the county no longer had the authority to enforce more than state law allowed and further explained that if the county attempted to enforce the county code provisions it would put itself in jeopardy of violating state code and intruding on peoples' civil rights. Mr. White thanked me for my input and shared with me that he wanted to do what was right for the people and further shared that he had been working with the leaders of the local community college to drop their ban on the carrying of handguns for personal protection as well. I then put in a few good words for the VCDL and when he noted that he was unfamiliar with the organization but was an NRA member I further encouraged him to get to know the group as it was very effective getting good firearm laws here in the Commonwealth.

    Mr. White indicated that he would talk further with the County Board and the County Attorney and recommend that the county strike the invalid wording from their codes. All in all I believe Mr. White to be a friend to those of us who understand both the state and federal constitutions and an asset to those who believe in arms for self protection. I look forward to hearing that the Tazewell County Board of Supervisors does the right thing!
    Sounds like a good start!

    Just my own thoughts again, it's not a constitutional issue, although it is good to hear that a local legislator is concerned about such things.

    This is just a plain old violation of state law. Any local ordinance that concerns that long list of firearms related actions and activities is simply illegal. It is not allowed to be on the books.

    The only solution is to remove it. I think it really is that simple. Maybe some of our lawyer types can correct me if that's too simple.

    TFred

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Sounds like a good start!

    Just my own thoughts again, it's not a constitutional issue, although it is good to hear that a local legislator is concerned about such things.

    This is just a plain old violation of state law. Any local ordinance that concerns that long list of firearms related actions and activities is simply illegal. It is not allowed to be on the books.

    The only solution is to remove it. I think it really is that simple. Maybe some of our lawyer types can correct me if that's too simple.

    TFred
    You're right but it sounds like JMelvin handled it just fine.

    VaPatriot was wrong in thinking they aren't friends.

    Places like that are the backbone of gun ownership in this state. I'd have been real unhappy to see them polluted by P4P.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Fred the gentleman understood that the county's law is unenforceable as a result of state law once I explained the VA Code section to him. I am far more impressed that the gentleman previously understood the current restriction as unconstitutional, than I am that he could simply read the state law and fall into compliance. I perhaps have a bit of disappointment that he didn't automatically go for removing all restrictions as opposed to just limiting to CHP holder, but that issue is something we worked through together and due to all of the talk about permit this, permit that in many circles many people don't think in terms of unlicensed open carry even if they don't have any objection to it. As we know it's OC that provides us with an outreach to people to get past the stupidity of the permitting system that is the context in which many people think.

    Consider this that the county was considering changing an existing law to make it better (removing restrictions) being completely unaware that there is a 6 year old state law that doesn't even allow them to enforce the current law, which is now void. We have some work to do even in friendly areas, where local government wants to be a good government.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-01-2010 at 04:34 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Fred the gentleman understood that the county's law is unenforceable as a result of state law once I explained the VA Code section to him....
    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining... I was just typing.

    TFred

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •