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Urban Rifle Hike

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
I decided to take advantage of the lull between the hot, and the soon to arrive stormy weather and go for a hike to the gun range today. I needed to prepare for hunting season, and the best way is to suit up and practice a little. You don't want your first day out in the field to be the testing ground for you and your gear, because it usually costs some dough to go on safari, and these days, that's a big concern. You could end up spending a hundred or two, and come home empty handed, and with pulled muscles or who knows what other ailments. Before I went abalone diving for the first time each year, I always took a quick check out dive locally for the same reasons. So I put on my hiking boots, grabbed my 30.06 and 20 rounds in a waistband carrier, along with a bottle of water and a small amount of cash for range fees and emergencies. I slung the .06 across my back and headed out from home shortly after noon. My route was a little less than "as the crow flies" due to school zones, but I guessed the trip was 10 miles one way. The temperature was hot, but not unbearable, and the sun was beating down pretty good, but that's one of the hazards you may have to endure if you hunt in the warmer parts of the north state. I had to cross the freeway almost immediately and then headed for the straight line of Folsom blvd. Folsom was to be the straighest and longest leg of the tour. Traffic was pretty heavy actually, and it wasn't long before I found myself waiting to cross several lights, most on the freeway onramps.I had made it a little past Bradshaw road, and only about a half mile from home when I heard sirens and suddenly saw two different units in the oncoming side of traffic. I swear I thought they were headed elsewhere, because one looked like he was passing the other, but I found out that I was their call. Turns out there were several more behind me, but I am deaf in one side, and was concentrating on the two that were in my immediate front. Those two stopped and took up firing positions from their cars, one a handgun, and the other a rifle. Next, came orders being barked out from several people, both fore and aft. I couldn't tell you how many units were there at that point, but it was more than five, and from several agencies. They began giving me conflicting orders because they weren't at all in sync, but I yelled out that I have a hearing problem and told them that they were not being consistent. You know, one guy is yelling don't move, and another is yelling put your hands out away from your body, etc, etc.
I ended up face down on Folsom Blvd on the hot pavement with probably a hundred cars stopped on both directions watching this. They cuffed me, and started drilling me with a few questions, to which I just answered that I was going to the gun range. they got me up and walked me to the car, put me in and then drove off the street to a business parking lot. There was some discussions to the effect they just needed to check me out and make sure that I was or wasn't something. So there I sat in the back of a unit with several others inspecting my gear, my rifle, my rounds, and a few other personal effects. Every so often one would come and tell me it wasn't going to take long. After a bit someone came and asked where I lived, home address, because I don't have that on anything I had with me. My license has a PO box, and they found that stashed in a side pocket of my little camera case. I don't care that they know where I live, so I gave them my street. They asked if the gun was registered to me at that address, and I doubt that really, having moved once since we bought that twenty years or more back. One smart ass cop, and I don't remember which one made an off handed comment as to my hearing loss as he shook my hearing protection in front of me. Something to the effect of "If he's deaf, he doesn't need these". I let that one go, because when your half deaf you get people making stupid comments from time to time, but anyone that shoots at a range, even a smart ass, is required to wear hearing protection, even if you're born with no ears. Them's the rules out there. So after a little time someone came and got me out and said that I was going to be freed, but also started questioning me about where I was going, and what I was doing. There was some rhetorical question about me testing them, to which I just told them I was actually testing myself. I reiterated that I was going to the range and gearing up for the season, to which another said the range is like 10 miles from here. He asked if I would like a ride there, to which I flatly refused, and I told them I was well aware of the distance and that exercise was part of the plan. I reminded whomever it was I was standing next to that I was told I was to be freed, and didn't like being lectured while wearing handcuffs. So I was released, and there was some further questioning of my judgement in a veiled sense. One cop said I should at least open the bolt on my rifle as I walked, but I mentioned I had ten miles alongside the road and I wasn't about to get dirt in there. Another pointed out that my route was to take me through a bad part of town, and I reminded him that I have lived in the bad part of town here for quite awhile. Actually, the part he was referring to is somewhat worse alright, but at least it's a busy street and there would be witnesses to call for ambulances or whatever. I was allowed to gather up my stuff, re-sling the rifle, and headed out with a few of them still shaking their heads as if they did not believe I was going to complete my hike. I headed back down Folsom Blvd at a little increase in speed, having lost a half hour or so with that episode. I saw quite a few units pass me from time to time for the next hour or more, but maybe they were keeping an eye on me for safety reasons.
So that was the cop encounter for the tour, but that's also not the end of the discourse for the day. I'll catch you up on that tomorrow, because I still had nine miles of city slickers to go. Just to recap though, there were many units that ended up responding, CHP, County sheriff, and City police. I didn't get hurt or anything, but my good pair of glasses were scratched up pretty good while I was down on the pavement. I am a little more concerned than yesterday about the manner in which gun owners are percieved, and the loss of what I consider our better ways of life
 

Iopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
637
Location
Oakley, California, United States
They over stepped here, big time. You have a good case for 4th A. Just because you had an .06 instead of a handgun, All they are to do is an E-check and release.

NO papers please,
NO felony prone
No damage to your glasses
No bull ****

Should have been 2-3 minutes tops
 

Wc

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
329
Location
, ,
Dump found cops

... One smart ass cop, and I don't remember which one made an off handed comment as to my hearing loss as he shook my hearing protection in front of me. Something to the effect of "If he's deaf, he doesn't need these". I let that one go, because when your half deaf you get people making stupid comments from time to time, but anyone that shoots at a range, even a smart ass, is required to wear hearing protection, even if you're born with no ears.

There is a big difference between sound and pressure. If deaf have ear drums, they can feeling the ear drums in painfully from the pressure and as well in deep underwater.
 

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
This is perhaps the largest police response to the non-crime of possessing and carrying a firearm since San Pedro (http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?67935-video-of-LA-open-carry-stop-4-January). I wonder if they dispatched a helo as well.

Three departments responding code three, lights and sirens to draw down on a single person carrying a rifle slung on his back based on 911 reports describing innocent behavior absent any hostile action. Florida v. J.L. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._J.L..) shows that this was a bad search, police having exceeded their authority to inspect the firearm through 12031(e) by putting him to the ground and running him for wants and warrants, running the rifle serial for stolen and tossing his belongings to find contraband. Even if they found something that could be construed as criminal, it would be inadmissable.

Add to this the conflicting commands that could not be readily heard by the detainee. Perhaps it wouldnt be so difficult to sort out who to obey if they didnt send a battalion of deputies and officers to 'investigate'. This was a potential Erik Scott situation- (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunned-down-in-vegas-what-really-happened-to-erik-scott/) requiring a detainee to comply with commands from different officers to end up shot for disobeying one, while obeying another.

Im pleased you made it out alive...But it appears your local constabulary mistook you for a Mumbai-style terrorist.
 
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Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
Question.....Did you pass through any school zones ? It is my understanding that long guns are exempt from the 1000ft school zone law.
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
They over stepped here, big time. You have a good case for 4th A. Just because you had an .06 instead of a handgun, All they are to do is an E-check and release.

NO papers please,
NO felony prone
No damage to your glasses
No bull ****

Should have been 2-3 minutes tops

Hah! I'm not interested in any lawsuit. One thing worse than cops getting into your ****, is lawyers getting into your ****. All those depositions, and testimonies where they want to know how it hurts, where it hurts, didn't you get hurt when you were six, and the real cause was that...etc. Then, the lawyer gets half the money, the tax man gets half of my half, and the county and state raise up my taxes and fees to cover the losses, plus a little more for reserve. I'd be lucky to end up with enough positive to by enough gas to head outa town before I ended up on the waffle list for my next cop encounter. NO THANKS! I don't really hate the cops, and that wasn't by far the worst thing government has done to me in life, so I'm just going to learn a little from this and tune my next tour(s) for effect. Lawsuits are getting so pedestrian these days. Some chunky woman goes to the carnival weight guesser at the fair and gets her feelings hurt, and the next thing you know she's suing for millions in emotional distress. I'm sure that all these cops would rather see us all tucked in our neat little homes at all times so when they encounter anyone out on the street they can be sure they're a criminal. But they got us, and we got rights, so it's a bit of give and take out there. They are learning it seems, and I'm pushing 60 these days, so I can remember getting much worse treatment by less compassionate cops. (anyone else from the anti-war protests era?)
All the work a lot of you are doing out there is making changes for the better. Maybe this will help a little too.
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
Question.....Did you pass through any school zones ? It is my understanding that long guns are exempt from the 1000ft school zone law.

As far as I can tell, the locals don't enforce the federal law, and the state law is relevant to concealable weapons. However, I don't want to be the unlucky one who encounters a federal agent on his way to the car wash when I'm going past the school zone, so I charted a course that was clearing them.
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
Add to this the conflicting commands that could not be readily heard by the detainee. Perhaps it wouldnt be so difficult to sort out who to obey if they didnt send a battalion of deputies and officers to 'investigate'. This was a potential Erik Scott situation- (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunned-down-in-vegas-what-really-happened-to-erik-scott/) requiring a detainee to comply with commands from different officers to end up shot for disobeying one, while obeying another.

Im pleased you made it out alive...But it appears your local constabulary mistook you for a Mumbai-style terrorist.

This is by far my biggest concern about this encounter. Too many different agencies, and no single person giving orders. Bad program if you ask me. Once one person fires, that could easily trigger a volley by others. That plus the hearing issue. I may send a letter of interest about that.
I also am concerned about how people are reacting to someone like me. That's not the cops fault, but we really have to work on getting more good people carrying guns in public. As it is now, every time someone is seen or heard from with a gun in public it is a bad guy committing a crime. The truth is that there are exponentially more law abiding gun users out there than criminals with guns. It's not hard to see why anyone with a gun in public is automatically assumed to be doing something wrong. Diluting the field some more is probably the best way to fix that short of arresting and incarcerating more bad guys.
 

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
Hah! I'm not interested in any lawsuit. One thing worse than cops getting into your ****, is lawyers getting into your ****. ...

First of all, sorry to hear that this happened to you.

Absent a 4A lawsuit, what is the deterent for keeping LEO from doing this in the future? All you have done is reinforced their unlawful behavior.

Maybe next time, you should give them a call ahead of time so that they can get some of their rookies set up to do some training on you?! Hopefully, the conflicting commands will not result in something more damaging than a scratched pair of glasses.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
Looking forward to reading about the remainder of the day! Sorry to hear your rights were trampled. For the most part I agree with you about lawsuits being frivolous, but I feel that citizens have a duty to correct their government when it makes a mistake. In this way we can nip bad behavior in the bud and prevent others from suffering from similar injustices.

When is the next long gun outing?
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
First of all, sorry to hear that this happened to you.

Absent a 4A lawsuit, what is the deterent for keeping LEO from doing this in the future? All you have done is reinforced their unlawful behavior.

No, I don't think that's true. What I do think is that this area has slid into the abyss of sheepdom. We are the west, and we are supposed to be brash, fearless, and adventurous. When people are shocked and shivered to their very timbers over the sight of a standard issue bolt action rifle from the 50's, they've become New York pussified. I don't know how many people called them, but based upon the passers'by that I observed, it was probably in the hundreds. The only thing I have reinforced is the memory of our way of life and the spirit of our western flavor. I doubt seriously that those cops are thinking they showed me a thing or two, and I don't think the same thing will be happening next time. I may have surprised them a little, but a lot of cops are just as concerned as many of us are about our individual rights and our way of life. I don't know that each of them thinks that way, but I cannot believe they'd all be pleased to have found out they shot someone over some bad information or misinterpretation. I know in our case here in Sac, they are understaffed and overwhelmed with really bad people. The last thing they want is to shoot a taxpayer who might be in their corner otherwise.
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
When is the next long gun outing?

Depends on my strength. Turns out I was a little more out of shape then I thought. I think the next weekend would be best, but I could be nursing some sore muscles for longer than I thought. The first 50 years didn't treat me this way. I'd be glad to have company though, should there be any interest.
 
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wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
Let's not make a habit of posting long gun OC threads. Per the forum rules, long gun OC is off-topic for this entire site and forum. I think Mike and John would make an exception for this thread, since you are relating a story about something legally significant that recently occurred, but the forum owners do not currently want advocacy for, or encouragement of, long gun OC on this board. I could myself make an argument against that policy, but those are the rules we play by on their forum.
 

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
328
Location
Sacramento, California, USA
Let's not make a habit of posting long gun OC threads. Per the forum rules, long gun OC is off-topic for this entire site and forum. I think Mike and John would make an exception for this thread, since you are relating a story about something legally significant that recently occurred, but the forum owners do not currently want advocacy for, or encouragement of, long gun OC on this board. I could myself make an argument against that policy, but those are the rules we play by on their forum.

Had no idea that was the case really.
 

Gooelf

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
44
Location
California
I drove by you on Bradshaw

I didn't think much of it at the time, but now that I have read your post I saw you on Bradshaw just before the Jack in the Box there. I didn't hear the LE respond or catch any of it; guess I was too far away when it occurred. It's just interesting to know I was right there just moments before. Had I been LE I might have asked where you were going and left it at that.
 

Gooelf

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
44
Location
California
Looking forward to reading about the remainder of the day! Sorry to hear your rights were trampled. For the most part I agree with you about lawsuits being frivolous, but I feel that citizens have a duty to correct their government when it makes a mistake. In this way we can nip bad behavior in the bud and prevent others from suffering from similar

Even if you are not seeking monetary gain because of the hassle of taxes and lawyers, wouldn't seeking at the very least a formal apology from the officers who responded and their personal acknowledgment that they did commit a violation be something worth while to correct governmental behavior. Sometimes this is enough rather than a full fledge Lawsuit. And besides the individual cops appoligizing the various heads of departments should also formally apologize. Maybe having to get up in front of the public and admit to doing wrong and suffering a little humility might be enough to encourage better training and response.
 

mjones

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
I decided to take advantage of the lull between the hot, and the soon to arrive stormy weather and go for a hike to the gun range today. I needed to prepare for hunting season, and the best way is to suit up and practice a little. You don't want your first day out in the field to be the testing ground for you and your gear, because it usually costs some dough to go on safari, and these days, that's a big concern. You could end up spending a hundred or two, and come home empty handed, and with pulled muscles or who knows what other ailments. Before I went abalone diving for the first time each year, I always took a quick check out dive locally for the same reasons.

So I put on my hiking boots, grabbed my 30.06 and 20 rounds in a waistband carrier, along with a bottle of water and a small amount of cash for range fees and emergencies. I slung the .06 across my back and headed out from home shortly after noon.

My route was a little less than "as the crow flies" due to school zones, but I guessed the trip was 10 miles one way. The temperature was hot, but not unbearable, and the sun was beating down pretty good, but that's one of the hazards you may have to endure if you hunt in the warmer parts of the north state. I had to cross the freeway almost immediately and then headed for the straight line of Folsom blvd. Folsom was to be the straighest and longest leg of the tour. Traffic was pretty heavy actually, and it wasn't long before I found myself waiting to cross several lights, most on the freeway onramps.

I had made it a little past Bradshaw road, and only about a half mile from home when I heard sirens and suddenly saw two different units in the oncoming side of traffic. I swear I thought they were headed elsewhere, because one looked like he was passing the other, but I found out that I was their call. Turns out there were several more behind me, but I am deaf in one side, and was concentrating on the two that were in my immediate front. Those two stopped and took up firing positions from their cars, one a handgun, and the other a rifle.

Next, came orders being barked out from several people, both fore and aft. I couldn't tell you how many units were there at that point, but it was more than five, and from several agencies. They began giving me conflicting orders because they weren't at all in sync, but I yelled out that I have a hearing problem and told them that they were not being consistent. You know, one guy is yelling don't move, and another is yelling put your hands out away from your body, etc, etc.

I ended up face down on Folsom Blvd on the hot pavement with probably a hundred cars stopped on both directions watching this. They cuffed me, and started drilling me with a few questions, to which I just answered that I was going to the gun range. they got me up and walked me to the car, put me in and then drove off the street to a business parking lot. There was some discussions to the effect they just needed to check me out and make sure that I was or wasn't something.

So there I sat in the back of a unit with several others inspecting my gear, my rifle, my rounds, and a few other personal effects. Every so often one would come and tell me it wasn't going to take long. After a bit someone came and asked where I lived, home address, because I don't have that on anything I had with me. My license has a PO box, and they found that stashed in a side pocket of my little camera case. I don't care that they know where I live, so I gave them my street. They asked if the gun was registered to me at that address, and I doubt that really, having moved once since we bought that twenty years or more back.

One smart ass cop, and I don't remember which one made an off handed comment as to my hearing loss as he shook my hearing protection in front of me. Something to the effect of "If he's deaf, he doesn't need these". I let that one go, because when your half deaf you get people making stupid comments from time to time, but anyone that shoots at a range, even a smart ass, is required to wear hearing protection, even if you're born with no ears. Them's the rules out there.

So after a little time someone came and got me out and said that I was going to be freed, but also started questioning me about where I was going, and what I was doing. There was some rhetorical question about me testing them, to which I just told them I was actually testing myself. I reiterated that I was going to the range and gearing up for the season, to which another said the range is like 10 miles from here. He asked if I would like a ride there, to which I flatly refused, and I told them I was well aware of the distance and that exercise was part of the plan.

I reminded whomever it was I was standing next to that I was told I was to be freed, and didn't like being lectured while wearing handcuffs. So I was released, and there was some further questioning of my judgement in a veiled sense. One cop said I should at least open the bolt on my rifle as I walked, but I mentioned I had ten miles alongside the road and I wasn't about to get dirt in there.

Another pointed out that my route was to take me through a bad part of town, and I reminded him that I have lived in the bad part of town here for quite awhile. Actually, the part he was referring to is somewhat worse alright, but at least it's a busy street and there would be witnesses to call for ambulances or whatever. I was allowed to gather up my stuff, re-sling the rifle, and headed out with a few of them still shaking their heads as if they did not believe I was going to complete my hike.

I headed back down Folsom Blvd at a little increase in speed, having lost a half hour or so with that episode. I saw quite a few units pass me from time to time for the next hour or more, but maybe they were keeping an eye on me for safety reasons.
So that was the cop encounter for the tour, but that's also not the end of the discourse for the day. I'll catch you up on that tomorrow, because I still had nine miles of city slickers to go.

Just to recap though, there were many units that ended up responding, CHP, County sheriff, and City police. I didn't get hurt or anything, but my good pair of glasses were scratched up pretty good while I was down on the pavement. I am a little more concerned than yesterday about the manner in which gun owners are percieved, and the loss of what I consider our better ways of life

Please at least ask the relevant agencies to replace your damaged glasses!
 
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